Anyone an Electrician?

[BCinSC]

OK, so this house here in Charleston, South Carolina, USA I'm in has a 200A Main. I'll get to the rant about the half-assed wiring throughout the house, but I'll begin in the panel where there are twenty-six (26!) 20A 120V breakers, then a bunch of bridged (220V) breakers: 1 20A for water heater, 1 30A for dryer and 1 for downstairs HVAC, 1 40A for upstairs HVAC, 1 50A for stove/oven , and 1 60A bridged (220V) that feeds the carriage house (garage), which in turn has 2 15A, a 20A (AC unit), a bridged 20A (water heater) and a bridged 30A (heat). How this place hasn't burned down, yet, or at least tripped Main is beyond me. To further my pain, there's little logic to the things that are wired on a particular circuit: random rooms/outlets/lights, upstairs/downstairs, air handlers and overhead lights.
Questions:
1) Do outlet/light circuits really need 20A breakers? Is it potentially dangerous for them all to be?
2) Are there too many branches off this Main?
3) Should I get an inspector and then report the jackass who wired this crap?
4) Where can I get info/diagrams for proper (in code) wiring?

Thanks

 

[Demon-Xanth]

This actually sounds normal.

 

[desy]

I would think that code should have most of those at 15 amp if your wiring is nmd90 14/2 wire?
20 A would exceed the carrying capacity of the wire.
Found it!

Like I thought if your 14 gauge, code should be `15A, if you have 12 gauge in there 20 is OK

 

[Encryptic]

Yes, call an inspector. I haven't the first farking clue about electrical wiring, but paying for an inspection is bound to be cheaper than trying to bribe Darwin.

Better yet, try to fix the problem yourself, then post a thread entitled "I just got electrocuted. Should I go to the hospital?"

 

[NogginBoink]

I agree. Sounds normal. There's nothing that says the individual breakers can't add up to more than 200amps. You'll never have all that stuff on at the same time; as long as each breaker is protecting its individual circuit appropriately you've got no problems.

 

[tranceport]

Originally posted by: NogginBoink
I agree. Sounds normal. There's nothing that says the individual breakers can't add up to more than 200amps. You'll never have all that stuff on at the same time; as long as each breaker is protecting its individual circuit appropriately you've got no problems.

But if he did have it all on it would trip.

I for one think all of them added should be smaller than your main...

Also your wire needs to be able to handle what the break can handle..If it isn't then the wire will fail before the breaker trips.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Each breaker is protecting the wire that it feeds, except the main which protects the wire that feeds it. It's perfectly normal to have a 200A main feed 1000A worth of breakers, because you'll never use each of those up, and if you do, that's why the main breaker is there.

 

[Analog]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth
This actually sounds normal.

I've wired several house, and this sounds normal. Remember, the breaker is there to protect the WIRE. I prefer 20A breakers with 12AWG wiring myself.

I am not sure what your concern is, are you afraid that it is overloaded? As far as code goes, you can check for yourself in the most important point. If you feel comfortable, take off the main door of the panel and then inspect the wiring to the breakers. 20A breakers require 12AWG, 15A require #14, 30A #10 etc.

It would not be a problem for a 15A breaker to use #12 wire etc. i.e. you can go up in gauge, but not down.

I think that you don't need an inspector, unless you are not comfortable with checking, or you find something wrong.

HTH

 

[KMurphy]

All that load is called "connected" load and is not the "actual" load being fed by the main distribution panel. If you were to turn everything on at once, then the 200A main breaker would likely trip thus protecting the panel itself from overloading.

The main things to check for in the panel are signs of overheating, aluminum (do not use) conductors/connectors, undersized wire and GFCI breakers or outlets in bathrooms, kitchens, garage or otherwise potentially wet location.

 

[BCinSC]

Concern is that some of the wiring is original, meaning pushing 100 years old. Yes, I'm talking cloth wrap stuff. And then there's the Living Room, upstairs and downstairs hallways, the attic lights, the outside light and the freakin electrostatic filter for downstairs all being on same circuit. WTF?

 

[mikeford]

If you want piece of mind, have it inspected and open your wallet wide.

I would never attack an old house piece by piece, tear out the interior walls and do plumbing, electrical, etc. all at once.

 

[AlienCraft]

This is typical. Remember, the circuit breaker is there to protect the wire. The only issue may be if the branch circuits are 14 guage. 20 amp breakers are for 12 guage , 15 amp breakers for 14 guage. The "bridged" breakers are for your 220v devices, water heater, Range, electric baseboard heaters, Sump pumps, etc.
The National Electrical Code book will run you a few hundred dollars. Public Library may have a copy.
There is a maximum number of "devices" that can be on branch circuits depending on the wire / breaker size.
By devices, we mean outlets, lamp fixtures. Each duplex outlet counts as 1 device, each lamp fixture counts as 1 regardless of the number of bulbs.
In new construction, we typically separate the outlets and lights, so that if someone causes a breaker to trip on an outlet, it doesn't plunge the room into darkness. It is common foroutlets to be on one breaker in more than one room.
The Kitchen will be the largest user of breakers as current code requires seperate breakers for Refrig, Microwave, dishwasher and garbage disposal. In fact, the disposal can ONLY have one light associated with it on it's branch. And it must be GFI protected as well.
In houses without a grounding conductor (old knob and tube, old style 2 conductor non metallic sheathed aka "romex") one is allowed to replace the old 2 conductor duplex with a GFI at the head and then all other outlets downstream may be converted to 3 conductor IF they are connected to the LOAD side of the GFI, ONLY. Simply replacing the 2 wire duplexes with 3 wire (grounding) duplexes without a GFI or grounding conductor of the appropriate size is a safety violation and a hazard, both fire and health.

PM if you want state specific info. I'm upstate in Anderson.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: BCinSC
Concern is that some of the wiring is original, meaning pushing 100 years old. Yes, I'm talking cloth wrap stuff. And then there's the Living Room, upstairs and downstairs hallways, the attic lights, the outside light and the freakin electrostatic filter for downstairs all being on same circuit. WTF?

Dude, you need to re-wire this house. The insulation on that stuff is probably asbestos cloth. It does not meet todays temperature ratings for insulation breakdown. With that many rooms and the fact that there are probably not enough outlets, I'll bet you have extension cords all over the place. Which is why the code now requires an outlet along every 8 ft of wall, one along any wall greater than 3 ft wide, and in hallways.
Call a local electrician, or PM me and I can consult for you.

 

[BCinSC]

OK, so refresh my memory. Take for example an overhead light. The feed from the panel comes to it and a switch is is inserted on the neutral side, correct?

 

[BCinSC]

Slightly off topic in this off topic thread - overhead powerlines along the street: why do many poles have 3 lines while others have only 2 or 1? I notice that into the pole transformers, only one line is attached, then 2 come from it to house.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Usually. There's exceptions. Most often the neutral and hot go to the light, and the neutral is run to the switch and back before actually being connected to the light's neutral.

 

[BCinSC]

And on a 15A circuit, 14/2 with ground is correct? 12/2wg for 20A?

 

[BCinSC]

You'll love this: was down at father-in-laws in Florida this weekend. Overhead fans/lights were run with 18 guage lamp cord. Yup, DAPO (dumbass previous owner) actually took the time to run it through walls and ceiling, but created MAJOR fire hazard.

 

[Analog]

Originally posted by: BCinSC
OK, so refresh my memory. Take for example an overhead light. The feed from the panel comes to it and a switch is is inserted on the neutral side, correct?

NEVER switch a neutral! Unless you switch the hot as well. You never want the socket to be hot when the switch is off!

 

[Demon-Xanth]

I've seen much worse. Imagine a house that used to be a meat packing plant, all of the outlets had 12 guage wire going upto a 6 guage wire that had a single 50A breaker. We did a little work to it, and shortly after we left, there was another problem that arose with an outlet going to a dryer, if it wasn't for a water leak, the place would've burned. It had the old fabric insulated wire.

 

[Analog]

Originally posted by: BCinSC
Slightly off topic in this off topic thread - overhead powerlines along the street: why do many poles have 3 lines while others have only 2 or 1? I notice that into the pole transformers, only one line is attached, then 2 come from it to house.

One line is hot, the other is ground. Some poles have 3 wires for 3 phase power.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Originally posted by: yellowfiero

Originally posted by: BCinSC
OK, so refresh my memory. Take for example an overhead light. The feed from the panel comes to it and a switch is is inserted on the neutral side, correct?

NEVER switch a neutral! Unless you switch the hot as well. You never want the socket to be hot when the switch is off!

This is a light, not a socket.

 

[Analog]

Originally posted by: BCinSC
And on a 15A circuit, 14/2 with ground is correct? 12/2wg for 20A?

A 15A breaker can use 14/2 or 12/2

 

[Analog]

Originally posted by: Demon-Xanth

Originally posted by: yellowfiero

Originally posted by: BCinSC
OK, so refresh my memory. Take for example an overhead light. The feed from the panel comes to it and a switch is is inserted on the neutral side, correct?

NEVER switch a neutral! Unless you switch the hot as well. You never want the socket to be hot when the switch is off!

This is a light, not a socket.

Doesn't matter. Think of it, if he switched the neutral, then the center socket of the lamp would always be hot.

 

[AlienCraft]

Originally posted by: BCinSC
Slightly off topic in this off topic thread - overhead powerlines along the street: why do many poles have 3 lines while others have only 2 or 1? I notice that into the pole transformers, only one line is attached, then 2 come from it to house.

The feed into the transformer is a higher voltage line which runs at much lower current. It is a single phase line, (it is one hot line referenced to ground) that attaches to the PRIMARY SIDE (input) There is a second line, usually the uninsulated "messenger wire" (the cable that supports the HV main) is the associated Ground
The transformer is a device which can allow for different voltages to be derived from that high voltage source. If you have more than one set of windings on the SECONDARY SIDE (output ). It does this with coils of wire called windings. More than one set of winding with the same number of turns gives two phases at the same voltage. same voltage = same number of turns. One end of the winding is connected to the associated end of the other winding and we get two phases referenced to a NEUTRAL.
Neutral and Ground are supposed to be the same, so in order to avoid multiple paths to ground (ground loops in audio speak) they are bonded ONLY at the service feed and at transformers.
How we get 220 v to run appliances comes from two 110 v lines being on 180degree opposite phase with reference to GROUND. if you measure each leg to ground you'll get 110v, measure to each other = 220v.

THIS IS VERY DIFFERENT FROM THE U.K.
Over there, they use 220v single ended for most everything. Because it's higher voltage AC, they get away with using smaller wire and smaller circuit breakers.
Also, it's commonly thought that the 220 v will "Kick" you off of it should you get caught up in the wire. (muscle contraction/ expansion with 220v as opposed to 120v simply causing muscles to contract ).