Anyone a teacher in the inner city?

[Baptismbyfire]

I know there are a few members who are teachers, or whose wives are teachers, and was wondering what teaching is like in the inner city schools. You hear the typical bad story about guns, knives, drugs, and violent kids, but was wondering if there was more(or less) to it than that.

 

[lxskllr]

You also get the pleasure of teaching the unteachable. A career in training trick cats would be more rewarding.

 

[rcpratt]

My SO quit her Detroit charter school job after 3 days. Spent the year long-term subbing and now has a full-time job in the burbs for the upcoming school year.

 

[Exterous]

How inner city? rcpratt's wife had the right idea - the inner city Detroit schools are all about drugs, weapons, fighting and unruly kids. I'm surprised anyone can graduate in the environment they have there

My wife teaches at a Title I school (Majority of kids are at risk/low income) outside of Detroit and its not as bad - most of the violence, arrests and drug use happens off school property. (Its not uncommon for my wife to come home and tell me about a kid who was smart but got in with the wrong crowd and is now arrested on weapons/drug related charges)

Still very unruly kids. For reference my wife has taught at a stereotypical upscale white suburban area and the kids where she teaches now are light years beyond them in terms of disruptive classroom behavior. It takes a certain kind of person to deal with that - lay the bitch on thick at the start of the year otherwise they will make your life hell

You need to be prepared for very limited parental involvement. She is told at least a couple of times a year by parents that education isn't important.

Its not all that uncommon for her to be called a racist.

She has been threatened more often

She gets some pretty fucked up stories too. She had a kid miss school because her mom stabbed her. She had a kid whose parents just up and left him. She lost a kid when the parents gave their child too many drugs and they OD'd etc. Seems like every year there is a new story that puts your life's problems in perspective

For all of this she prefers teaching in the Title I school over the white suburban school (that pays more). Why? She got into teaching to teach kids. These are the kids that need the help the most but are least likely to get it from the school (due to undesirable job conditions) or parents. They are the most at risk. She feels so much more fulfillment when she sees a child from the Title I school that she helped succeed than from the other school

So - it depends on the area. Some are horrendously bad but for the ones that aren't quite as bad there can be a great sense of fulfillment - if you can handle the environment

 

[ConwayJim]

My wife does it, and it is a struggle at first. The kids are actually pretty good, you just have to approach teaching a different way. You will spend lots of time on behaviour issues, but with experience you will be able to handle it. My wife said you have to have a tough-skin, but finds it may more rewarding than teaching a bunch of robots.

Biggest advice is to always set them up for success, which means a lot more time planning; my wife rarely does "handouts" or "text-book" work.

 

[blackdogdeek]

snip

wow. and i thought idealism was dead. kudos to your wife for helping those kids out. the world could use more like her.

 

[ichy]

I had a roommate who taught in a Baltimore City high school. I think that theoretically it was one of the city's less awful schools, but a lot of the kids were just animals. Assaults against teachers were relatively common (I think she got punched two or three times in her first year) and parents who completely didn't give a shit were the norm.

What's even sadder is that there were some decent kids but they were often getting shafted by coming from completely dysfunctional backgrounds (sexual abuse was very common, teachers are mandated reporters & my roommate had to go to court & testify sometimes. She also had to help out students who faced sleeping on the street.)

 

[rcpratt]

wow. and i thought idealism was dead. kudos to your wife for helping those kids out. the world could use more like her.

Seriously. I didn't know my SO when she was in the charter school, but from the stories, I think that I would hate having to deal with the stories every night, much less actually be the teacher. No thanks for me.

I will continue my ignorant idealistic life in the silver spoon northwest suburbs. ()

 

[Vdubchaos]

I think a better question would be

"are you crazy or out of your mind?"

 

[DrPizza]

Hmmmm, I've attempted to explain my reasoning about 5 times; each time ended up with multiple paragraphs of an explanation which each time I didn't think quite got the right point across, so I'll summarize briefly:

I don't want to teach in an inner city. Overall, I think there's just too much of a culture that doesn't value education. I get my greatest enjoyment out of teaching kids who want to learn - to push them far beyond the required curriculum, and to spark as much interest in my subject matter as I can. I do find it rewarding to save the occasional kid who is thinking about dropping out of high school - to get them to see the importance of education and at least stick it out long enough to earn a high school diploma; something they might be the first in their family to achieve. But, for most of those successes have been with students whose goals are simply to enter the workforce, commonly working on their parents' farm with the long term goal of one day taking over the farm.

My real reward is in knowing that I inspired kids to go much farther. This year, of the graduating seniors who took physics with me, more than 1/3 of those are entering college majoring in something related - electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, even one student going to MIT for astronautical engineering. After having fun discussions in class where I made it perfectly clear that it was only my opinion that manned space flight is a waste of resources that could be better spent on exploration with robots, etc. (Spirit, Opportunity, Cassini, Kepler, New Horizons, Curiosity, ...), BUT if he ever worked his way through the ranks at NASA and 30 years from now, they decided to attempt that teacher in space for PR thing and had a propulsion system that could send me to some place pretty cool (in the "neat" way, not the 4 degrees K sort of way), to remember me.

 

[Exterous]

One of the other things to note about inner city or at risk schools is that I would imagine teacher burnout rates are higher. The culture that DrPizza mentioned will wear on you. The kids will wear on you. The parents will wear on you. Its a common topic among her friends about so and so who is thinking about retiring because they no longer have it in them to be as effective as they used to be. Some people can deal with it for longer than others

wow. and i thought idealism was dead. kudos to your wife for helping those kids out. the world could use more like her.

Thanks - too bad it pays poorly

I didn't know my SO when she was in the charter school, but from the stories, I think that I would hate having to deal with the stories every night, much less actually be the teacher. No thanks for me

It was tough for a while but it just settled down into routine - same homeless/drug/violence/disruptive/parent not caring story, different kid gave way to 'just another day at work' over the last couple of years. I do know that there is absolutely no way I could do what she does. I would have threatened a kid/parent long before now

 

[Chiropteran]

My fiance is a teacher in a middle school is southeast DC. Near the end of the school year one of her students stopped showing up because his father was murdered.

 

[Baptismbyfire]

Hmmmm, I've attempted to explain my reasoning about 5 times; each time ended up with multiple paragraphs of an explanation which each time I didn't think quite got the right point across, so I'll summarize briefly:

I don't want to teach in an inner city. Overall, I think there's just too much of a culture that doesn't value education. I get my greatest enjoyment out of teaching kids who want to learn - to push them far beyond the required curriculum, and to spark as much interest in my subject matter as I can. I do find it rewarding to save the occasional kid who is thinking about dropping out of high school - to get them to see the importance of education and at least stick it out long enough to earn a high school diploma; something they might be the first in their family to achieve. But, for most of those successes have been with students whose goals are simply to enter the workforce, commonly working on their parents' farm with the long term goal of one day taking over the farm.

My real reward is in knowing that I inspired kids to go much farther. This year, of the graduating seniors who took physics with me, more than 1/3 of those are entering college majoring in something related - electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, even one student going to MIT for astronautical engineering. After having fun discussions in class where I made it perfectly clear that it was only my opinion that manned space flight is a waste of resources that could be better spent on exploration with robots, etc. (Spirit, Opportunity, Cassini, Kepler, New Horizons, Curiosity, ...), BUT if he ever worked his way through the ranks at NASA and 30 years from now, they decided to attempt that teacher in space for PR thing and had a propulsion system that could send me to some place pretty cool (in the "neat" way, not the 4 degrees K sort of way), to remember me.

I perfectly understand why teachers want to teach highly motivated students, and why they don't want to teach classes where 80% of their effort goes to simply keeping the kids under control, rather than the actual teaching. I also understand that teachers are human beings, and we cannot expect teachers to go above and beyond the call of duty to burn themselves out trying to "save" every student, especially when the bureaucracy often hinders their effort. Most of all, I understand that highly motivated students have just as much right to good education as the poorly motivated students, and that in no way should highly qualified teachers just be reserved for the inner city students.

Having said all that, I can't help but feel there are already plenty of talented teachers lined up eager to touch the lives of highly motivated students, especially it means a bigger paycheck for less effort. This is just assumption on my part, but don't the highly motivated students generally require less guidance from the teachers? Aren't they able to take charge of their own education for the most part, even if the teacher may not be of the highest calibre? Since their parents tend to be better-off, they also have more access to resources that can makeup for any lack on the part of the teacher.

Who will then tend to those kids in the inner city schools? Isn't the problem getting worse year by year, with the warning signs popping up in all aspects of society?

I'm not saying that there is a simple answer, or that any group in particular is at fault, but it seems like a very bleak prospect for the future.

 

[Chiropteran]

Who will then tend to those kids in the inner city schools? Isn't the problem getting worse year by year, with the warning signs popping up in all aspects of society?

I'm not saying that there is a simple answer, or that any group in particular is at fault, but it seems like a very bleak prospect for the future.

Is it a problem? Maybe the problem is that we are trying so hard to teach those who don't want to be taught.

Kids from poor families barely get enough money to eat. They go to school because the subsidized lunch is the best meal they get (and it's crap). They don't care or need to know when the battle of 1812 was fought. Their priorities are not in line with the priorities of our education system, or the teachers.

The problem isn't the schools, it is the families (for the most part). There is that special 10% that do well despite the conditions, but they are the exception not the rule.

 

[ichy]

Who will then tend to those kids in the inner city schools? Isn't the problem getting worse year by year, with the warning signs popping up in all aspects of society?

Sending more good teachers to inner city schools won't change much of anything. The two best things we could do are:

A.) Help the kids who do come from decent families and who do want to succeed get ahead. IMO school vouchers are the best way to do that. I'm not a big fan of the Catholic Church in general, but it would be great if more decent inner city kids could get vouchers to go to Catholic schools which are often the only affordable alternative to awful city schools.

B.) Find a way to encourage parasites and low lifes to stop having kids.

 

[Baptismbyfire]

Is it a problem? Maybe the problem is that we are trying so hard to teach those who don't want to be taught.

Kids from poor families barely get enough money to eat. They go to school because the subsidized lunch is the best meal they get (and it's crap). They don't care or need to know when the battle of 1812 was fought. Their priorities are not in line with the priorities of our education system, or the teachers.

The problem isn't the schools, it is the families (for the most part). There is that special 10% that do well despite the conditions, but they are the exception not the rule.

It's indeed not a problem if you are thinking of college preparatory education, since not every kid needs to go to college. But not only does the kid need to learn some kind of vocational education so he doesn't just go on welfare, but he also needs to learn how to coexist with the other members of society. Of course you could argue that the current education system is not designed to promote social cohesion, and actually aggravates conflict. And yes, often the blame seems to lie with the parents first of all.

 

[Exterous]

Is it a problem? Maybe the problem is that we are trying so hard to teach those who don't want to be taught.

I think thats a smaller group than you realize (at least coming from my wife's experience). A lot will try to weasel out of work. Many are used to everyone (friends/parents/teachers/administrators) not caring if they spend any effort at all so they choose the easy way out and don't spend any effort at all. Its easy to meet low expectations. When confronted with someone who makes them behave, harps on them about paying attention and doing their work, engages and can joke around when appropriate and many will actually start to learn something

I, for one, am glad that there are people who aren't willing to give up on children that the system and parents have failed so horribly.

Sending more good teachers to inner city schools won't change much of anything.

Sure it will. Of course they would need to want to be there and actually stay but a good teacher can provide the good role model and demand/inspire the work ethic they need.

Its not the best solution though. Changing the culture\parents would be much more effective

 

[Exterous]

This is just assumption on my part, but don't the highly motivated students generally require less guidance from the teachers? Aren't they able to take charge of their own education for the most part, even if the teacher may not be of the highest calibre? Since their parents tend to be better-off, they also have more access to resources that can makeup for any lack on the part of the teacher.

Who will then tend to those kids in the inner city schools? Isn't the problem getting worse year by year, with the warning signs popping up in all aspects of society?

This is tougher to say and I am only basing it off of my wife's experience so be warned of the anecdote:

The kids in the better off school districts tend to have better support structures if someone drops the ball. It may include some/all of the following: Tutors, parental involvement, good learning environment (And I am not talking about a quiet place to study I am talking about no one getting shot or doing drug deals outside your window) family support in absence of parental involvement, access to learning materials/aids, better teachers (usually the result of more attractive pay/benefits) etc. Most of the kids where my wife teaches are lucky to have one of those and if its gone - well - then they have only themselves. My wife didn't want to teach at the suburban school because 'They already have very good teachers. They already have good role models. They already have someone somewhere that cares about them and what they end up doing in life. I want to teach somewhere where I can be that very good teacher, that good role model, the one that cares about someone who no one else will care about.'

Sure there will be the isolated cases but its not the same as when a notable portion of your student population is homeless or the majority of students qualify for subsidized lunches.

 

[ichy]

Sure it will. Of course they would need to want to be there and actually stay but a good teacher can provide the good role model and demand/inspire the work ethic they need.

Maybe for a few, but in the vast majority of cases a teacher can't undo the harm of years of horrendous parenting and a ghetto culture that values a phat set of rims more than an education.

 

[DrPizza]

I perfectly understand why teachers want to teach highly motivated students, and why they don't want to teach classes where 80% of their effort goes to simply keeping the kids under control, rather than the actual teaching. I also understand that teachers are human beings, and we cannot expect teachers to go above and beyond the call of duty to burn themselves out trying to "save" every student, especially when the bureaucracy often hinders their effort. Most of all, I understand that highly motivated students have just as much right to good education as the poorly motivated students, and that in no way should highly qualified teachers just be reserved for the inner city students.

Having said all that, I can't help but feel there are already plenty of talented teachers lined up eager to touch the lives of highly motivated students, especially it means a bigger paycheck for less effort. This is just assumption on my part, but don't the highly motivated students generally require less guidance from the teachers? Aren't they able to take charge of their own education for the most part, even if the teacher may not be of the highest calibre? Since their parents tend to be better-off, they also have more access to resources that can makeup for any lack on the part of the teacher.

Who will then tend to those kids in the inner city schools? Isn't the problem getting worse year by year, with the warning signs popping up in all aspects of society?

I'm not saying that there is a simple answer, or that any group in particular is at fault, but it seems like a very bleak prospect for the future.

I knew I should have stuck to some of the longer versions of my post. I'm also in a Title 1 school. In other words, my students don't come from well-off families. Not all of my students are *that* motivated. While it's true that there's a scarcity of talented teachers for inner city schools, that's also true for several subjects regardless of the setting. When we have math and science positions open, there are usually few applicants.

In fact, the majority of my students - sophomores taking Geometry, are just typical, everyday ordinary students. They differ from inner city students perhaps only by the baggage they bring to class with them. (Not that they don't.) One of my top students didn't have a family or home to live in until the last second last year; my wife and I had volunteered to serve as hosts for a month or two during the year, but another family was found who could take him in for the whole year. Extra resources? Students come in with manure on their boots from the 4am milking, and leave the school to go back home to milk the cows again. Their parents aren't dropping them off in BMWs. I'm in the poorest county in NY. My kids have problems. BUT, there's enough of a belief in education that even the kids whose parents don't care whether they graduate or not can often be motivated to stay in school with their peers.

But, I'm human. I'm also looking out for my OWN interests. I love my school district - enough that with just a few years left on the mortgage on my old house, I uprooted and moved into this district so I could bring my own children to this school. I can't stand the cities - the noise, the congestion. I smile when they do the once or twice a year lock down in the school while they parade drug sniffing dogs past all the lockers and the dogs come up empty. (Not that none of the kids use drugs; they just don't generally bring that problem into the school.) Trade that for the inner city?! No way.

 

[ichy]

I smile when they do the once or twice a year lock down in the school while they parade drug sniffing dogs past all the lockers and the dogs come up empty.

Kind of off topic but I don't know how anyone could ever smile at that kind of police state horseshit.

 

[blackdogdeek]

My wife didn't want to teach at the suburban school because 'They already have very good teachers. They already have good role models. They already have someone somewhere that cares about them and what they end up doing in life. I want to teach somewhere where I can be that very good teacher, that good role model, the one that cares about someone who no one else will care about.'

dude, seriously, people like your wife are extremely rare. she may never win any awards or accolades as a result of her profession but she can rest assured that there is at least one person who is thankful for her supremely noble contribution to society.

 

[GoodRevrnd]

How inner city? rcpratt's wife had the right idea - the inner city Detroit schools are all about drugs, weapons, fighting and unruly kids. I'm surprised anyone can graduate in the environment they have there

My wife teaches at a Title I school (Majority of kids are at risk/low income) outside of Detroit and its not as bad - most of the violence, arrests and drug use happens off school property. (Its not uncommon for my wife to come home and tell me about a kid who was smart but got in with the wrong crowd and is now arrested on weapons/drug related charges)

Still very unruly kids. For reference my wife has taught at a stereotypical upscale white suburban area and the kids where she teaches now are light years beyond them in terms of disruptive classroom behavior. It takes a certain kind of person to deal with that - lay the bitch on thick at the start of the year otherwise they will make your life hell

You need to be prepared for very limited parental involvement. She is told at least a couple of times a year by parents that education isn't important.

Its not all that uncommon for her to be called a racist.

She has been threatened more often

She gets some pretty fucked up stories too. She had a kid miss school because her mom stabbed her. She had a kid whose parents just up and left him. She lost a kid when the parents gave their child too many drugs and they OD'd etc. Seems like every year there is a new story that puts your life's problems in perspective

For all of this she prefers teaching in the Title I school over the white suburban school (that pays more). Why? She got into teaching to teach kids. These are the kids that need the help the most but are least likely to get it from the school (due to undesirable job conditions) or parents. They are the most at risk. She feels so much more fulfillment when she sees a child from the Title I school that she helped succeed than from the other school

So - it depends on the area. Some are horrendously bad but for the ones that aren't quite as bad there can be a great sense of fulfillment - if you can handle the environment

Ya this is pretty much my wife's experience to the T. Suburban Title 1 school in Las Vegas. The funny part is when she was starting out she taught summer school in Watts and actually found those kids to generally be more respectful.

 

[Exterous]

Students come in with manure on their boots from the 4am milking, and leave the school to go back home to milk the cows again. Their parents aren't dropping them off in BMWs. I'm in the poorest county in NY. My kids have problems. BUT, there's enough of a belief in education that even the kids whose parents don't care whether they graduate or not can often be motivated to stay in school with their peers.

I'd be curious to know your thoughts on hard work and expectations and how that relates to the cultural bias towards education. It has been my impression that low expectations + little work expected outside of school leads to culture that doesn't respect the value of education. Looking at your paragraph and thinking about my wife's school would seem to reinforce that but I would be interested to know a more direct answer from someone who is familiar with what appears to be the other side of the coin

 

[DrPizza]

Kind of off topic but I don't know how anyone could ever smile at that kind of police state horseshit.

Do you call metal detectors at inner city schools "police state horseshit?" Why do you think efforts do curb the use of drugs by students are horseshit? Marijuana could be made legal today, and if it were up for a vote, I'd vote for that; (for 18 and older) but I'd still be happy with efforts to keep it out of the schools.

I'd be curious to know your thoughts on hard work and expectations and how that relates to the cultural bias towards education.

I'm not exactly what you mean about cultural biases - or rather, the expectations of whom? I think that if the parents expect Cs, then then kid doesn't really have as much incentive to strive for As. Though, the teacher can make quite a difference here. I've found that there are two components to success: high expectations (even if only from the teacher), and building confidence. (Along with hard work.)