Anybody feel lawyerly?

[phisrow]

My housemates and I have run into an unpleasant spot of trouble. Sunday morning, without warning, our downstairs toilet started overflowing. It was a ghastly mess, with vile sewage oozing under the door and across the kitchen floor. Any use of water on the second floor produces further horrid exudate. This means no showers, no working toilets, and only one functional sink in the entire house(plus the reek of sewage in the area that we need to prepare food).

Unfortunately, we are renting the place, and from a somewhat "distant" landlady. She is hard to get in touch with, incomprehensible on the phone, and inclined to be a tightwad. She has not been answering our calls, or the calls that the plumbing contractors have made, asking for her approval on the repairs. The delay is getting untenable.

I did some poking about and came across 5-12-110 of Chicago's law code:

(c) Minor Defects. If there is material noncompliance by the landlord with the rental agreement or with Section 5-12-070, and the reasonable cost of compliance does not exceed the greater of $500.00 or one-half of the monthly rent, the tenant may recover damages for the material noncompliance or may notify the landlord in writing of his intention to correct the condition at the landlord's expense; provided, however, that this subsection shall not be applicable if the reasonable cost of compliance exceeds one month's rent. If the landlord fails to correct the defect within 14 days after being notified by the tenant in writing or as promptly as conditions require in case of emergency, the tenant may have the work done in a workmanlike manner and in compliance with existing law and building regulations and, after submitting to the landlord a paid bill from an appropriate tradesman or supplier, deduct from his or her rent the amount thereof, not to exceed the limits specified by this subsection and not to exceed the reasonable price then customarily charged for such work. A tenant shall not repair at the landlord's expense if the condition was caused by the deliberate or negligent act or omission of the tenant, a member of the tenant's family, or other person on the premises with the tenant's consent.

The Illinois state code contains similar language.
It looks like we need to provide her with notice, then go ahead if she doesn't comply within 14 days. However the statute also says "or as promptly as conditions require in cases of emergency" Would this, under law, qualify as a case of emergency?

Cliffs:
Unpleasant sewage incident
Landlord stonewalls, preventing repair
Phisrow looks up law code, if this is an "emergency" he can go ahead and get it fixed.

Is this an emergency?

 

[FoBoT]

that doesn't sound "minor" and i can't image it costing less than $500 or half your rent

i would contact the city dept. that condemns buildings and see what they can do

 

[Heisenberg]

Raw sewage sounds like an emergency to me. Call a plumber and worry about the bill later.

 

[cherrytwist]

No but I'm feeling litigious.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: phisrow
My housemates and I have run into an unpleasant spot of trouble. Sunday morning, without warning, our downstairs toilet started overflowing. It was a ghastly mess, with vile sewage oozing under the door and across the kitchen floor. Any use of water on the second floor produces further horrid exudate. This means no showers, no working toilets, and only one functional sink in the entire house(plus the reek of sewage in the area that we need to prepare food).

Unfortunately, we are renting the place, and from a somewhat "distant" landlady. She is hard to get in touch with, incomprehensible on the phone, and inclined to be a tightwad. She has not been answering our calls, or the calls that the plumbing contractors have made, asking for her approval on the repairs. The delay is getting untenable.

I did some poking about and came across 5-12-110 of Chicago's law code:

(c) Minor Defects. If there is material noncompliance by the landlord with the rental agreement or with Section 5-12-070, and the reasonable cost of compliance does not exceed the greater of $500.00 or one-half of the monthly rent, the tenant may recover damages for the material noncompliance or may notify the landlord in writing of his intention to correct the condition at the landlord's expense; provided, however, that this subsection shall not be applicable if the reasonable cost of compliance exceeds one month's rent. If the landlord fails to correct the defect within 14 days after being notified by the tenant in writing or as promptly as conditions require in case of emergency, the tenant may have the work done in a workmanlike manner and in compliance with existing law and building regulations and, after submitting to the landlord a paid bill from an appropriate tradesman or supplier, deduct from his or her rent the amount thereof, not to exceed the limits specified by this subsection and not to exceed the reasonable price then customarily charged for such work. A tenant shall not repair at the landlord's expense if the condition was caused by the deliberate or negligent act or omission of the tenant, a member of the tenant's family, or other person on the premises with the tenant's consent.

The Illinois state code contains similar language.
It looks like we need to provide her with notice, then go ahead if she doesn't comply within 14 days. However the statute also says "or as promptly as conditions require in cases of emergency" Would this, under law, qualify as a case of emergency?

Cliffs:
Unpleasant sewage incident
Landlord stonewalls, preventing repair
Phisrow looks up law code, if this is an "emergency" he can go ahead and get it fixed.

Is this an emergency?

Uh, yes this would be an emergency.

Why?

1. The building is a health hazard
2. The building is in a state of unlivible conditions

 

[ryan256]

Call a plumber and get it fixed. Then send her a bill. When she refuses to take care of it you pay the plumber then start subtracting the plumber bill from your monthly rent checks.

 

[crt1530]

Document the situation well...take pictures, note the time and date of your phone calls to your landlord, etc. Then go out and get somebody to fix the problem asap. Send the paid invoices/receipts to your landlord and deduct the amount from your rent. This situation is significantly impacting your ability to live in this house. You can either do what I suggested above, or vacate the premises. You would be able to cancel the lease as you would have documented proof that your landlord was unresponsive to a unsanitary/dangerous situation.

If your landlord gives you any problems, take it to small claims court. You are not allowed to have a lawyer and the judge will look favorably on the party who comes prepared and has documentation to back up their claims.

 

[kranky]

I think raw sewage qualifies as an emergency.

Does your lease specify a procedure for handling things like this?

See this link.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: crt1530
Document the situation well...take pictures, note the time and date of your phone calls to your landlord, etc. Then go out and get somebody to fix the problem asap. Send the paid invoices/receipts to your landlord and deduct the amount from your rent. This situation is significantly impacting your ability to live in this house. You can either do what I suggested above, or vacate the premises. You would be able to cancel the lease as you would have documented proof that your landlord was unresponsive to a unsanitary/dangerous situation.

If your landlord gives you any problems, take it to small claims court. You are not allowed to have a lawyer and the judge will look favorably on the party who comes prepared and has documentation to back up their claims.

<--what I would do

 

[RightIsWrong]

I have a bit of experience on this topic unfortunately. I'm not expert by any means.....but I've done enough research to know that they (landlords) have to keep the residence up to code. Part of code means that it has to meet specific standards. You can break your lease legally without any monetary penalty if you so choose if they refuse to repair and/or rectify the hazardous situation.

http://www.chicagoareahousing.org/FaqDetail.asp?id=UNSAFEBLDG&newlayout=

This passage (from the first link) is probably what you would use to get him/her to repair it or you can leave and they have to give you back your full deposit:

(a) Noncompliance by Landlord. If there is material noncompliance by the
landlord with a rental agreement or with Section 5- 12-070 either of which renders
the premises not reasonably fit and habitable, the tenant under the rental
agreement may deliver a written notice to the landlord specifying the acts and/or
omissions constituting the material noncompliance and specifying that the rental
agreement will terminate on a date not less than 14 days after receipt of the notice
by the landlord, unless the material noncompliance is remedied by the landlord
within the time period specified in the notice. If the material noncompliance is not
remedied within the time period so specified in the notice, the rental agreement shall
terminate, and the tenant shall deliver possession of the dwelling unit to the
landlord within 30 days after the expiration of the time period specified in the
notice. If possession shall not be so delivered, then the tenant?s notice shall be
deemed withdrawn and the lease shall remain in full force and effect. If the rental
agreement is terminated, the landlord shall return all prepaid rent, security and
interest recoverable by the tenant under Section 5- 12-080.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
I have a bit of experience on this topic unfortunately. I'm not expert by any means.....but I've done enough research to know that they (landlords) have to keep the residence up to code. Part of code means that it has to meet specific standards. You can break your lease legally without any monetary penalty if you so choose if they refuse to repair and/or rectify the hazardous situation.

http://www.chicagoareahousing.org/FaqDetail.asp?id=UNSAFEBLDG&newlayout=

This passage (from the first link) is probably what you would use to get him/her to repair it or you can leave and they have to give you back your full deposit:

(a) Noncompliance by Landlord. If there is material noncompliance by the
landlord with a rental agreement or with Section 5- 12-070 either of which renders
the premises not reasonably fit and habitable, the tenant under the rental
agreement may deliver a written notice to the landlord specifying the acts and/or
omissions constituting the material noncompliance and specifying that the rental
agreement will terminate on a date not less than 14 days after receipt of the notice
by the landlord, unless the material noncompliance is remedied by the landlord
within the time period specified in the notice. If the material noncompliance is not
remedied within the time period so specified in the notice, the rental agreement shall
terminate, and the tenant shall deliver possession of the dwelling unit to the
landlord within 30 days after the expiration of the time period specified in the
notice. If possession shall not be so delivered, then the tenant?s notice shall be
deemed withdrawn and the lease shall remain in full force and effect. If the rental
agreement is terminated, the landlord shall return all prepaid rent, security and
interest recoverable by the tenant under Section 5- 12-080.

I'm getting the impression that the law ignores emergencies (which this would fall under) instead leaving that up to the courts to decide?

 

[DrPizza]

Sounds like a simple clog... roto-rooter to the rescue!

The "repair" is most likely minor in nature; the amount of clean-up should be obvious.
Contact the health department, have them stop in and see if they'll contact the landlord.

 

[BigJ]

You need to call your city's Sewer and Water Division.

More than likely, one of two things is happening:
-The city's sewage line is backed up
-Your residential sewage line is backed up

If it's #1, the city should fix it free of charge once they get someone out there to inspect things.

If it's #2, you can either do like Dr. Pizza said and use an auger/plumber's snake to try to unclog things, or call a plumber. It shouldn't be too expensive to fix.

EDIT: Don't bother wasting your time with Drano or any of those liquid crap products.

Also, only your basement is backing up, correct? The water/drains function properly on the above floors, but cause further backing up in the basement, right?

Then it's more than likely a problem on your end. Depending on the severity of the problem (a simple clog in the line vs. tree roots growing into the line and finally clogging things) you'll be able to use an auger or you'll have to call a professional drain cleaning service.

If you have a septic tank, then your tank needs to be pumped.

 

[crt1530]

Originally posted by: DrPizza
Sounds like a simple clog... roto-rooter to the rescue!

The "repair" is most likely minor in nature; the amount of clean-up should be obvious.
Contact the health department, have them stop in and see if they'll contact the landlord.

This is most likely the case. It sounds like you have a clog below the point where the upstairs and downstairs sewer lines meet up. A sufficiently long snake should do the job. If it turns out that one of your roommates or roommate's girlfriends caused the clog with feminine hygiene or beauty products (quite likely), you should all step up and eat the cost.

 

[Deleted member 4644]

I am not a lawyer, but I'm 99% sure this counts as an emergency.

 

[BigJ]

Also, you MUST contact your town's Sewage and Water Department before calling in a plumber or drain cleaning company. On the off chance that there is actually something wrong with the city's line and not your residential line, you're going to waste money with the plumber/company because they won't be able to do anything, and you'll still have to wind up calling the Sewage and Water Department to take care of things. And since it wasn't the problem, your landlord will not have to reimburse you.

 

[Rudy Toody]

Never withhold anything from the rent unless you have written permission from the landlord. If you send a partial payment, the landlord can refuse it and give you notice to vacate for non-payment of rent (which the courts will uphold.) Have the work done, negotiate with the landlord to have her pay it outright or to allow you to reduce the rent payments for a period of time (get that in writing.) Or sue her in small claims court or on Judge Judy.

Get this book from library: Every Tenant's Legal Guide by Portman and Stewart.

 

[Darthvoy]

if you can't shower and have clean running water you can check yourself into a motel/hotel and send the landlady the bill. That's what i did when the water failed in my apartment.

 

[Mermaidman]

I'd be careful and make sure the landlord cannot turn around and blame you for causing the problem.