Any TOTALLY legacy-free micro ATX moards (Here or on the way)?

[CZroe]

I'm looking for something that supports either Intel or AMD with no VGA (DVI-only, VGA with DVI dongle), no serial, no PS2, no Parallel, etc. USB2.0 is a must, Digital audio outputs (TOSlink optical or SPDIF Coax) are a plus.

I think DVI is the hardest qualifier. I think Apple makes the only PCs with onboard DVI and no VGA (Unless you count that one laptop from Dell). If it doesn't exist, how long before we may see one? Heck, when will Shuttle figure out that no one wants to use VGA + a DVI riser card in their home theater setups? If Shuttle would hurry up and get the drift I'd go for that if not just because I'd expect all future models to have an external PSU like the latest one.

I can't be the only one who wants to know the day such a product becomes available. Heck, I'd jump on an nForce2 board like this before an A64 board simply because I'd know that the digital audio is top-notch. Screw nVidia for saying that no one bases their purchasing decision on SoundStorm (nForce 3 250) :|

 

[jhu]

legacy-free but you still want x86?

 

[CZroe]

OK, so it's an oxymoron. What's closest? I'll say IA32 and AMD64 just to pretend that we're talking about this past decade

 

[jhu]

i like giving people a hard time. why do you need legacy-free?

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: jhu
i like giving people a hard time. why do you need legacy-free?

Why do we need legacy?

I know I haven't used my serial, parallel, or PS/2 ports for the past four systems. In fact, I'm typing this on a legacy-free FlexATX box.

- M4H

 

[CZroe]

For a pizza-box foot-print format that connects to my home theater. No DVI riser card would conform. No Audigy either. I don't want any unused ports gettin priority placement on the back. VGA can always be obtained with the DVI dongle (If it's DVI-I). Serial, PS2, etc can always be obtained with USB. Analog audio should be as taboo and composite out. NO WAY is that occupying space on a high-end HTPC. I don't even have a digital receiver yet but I will once I have the device to support it.

 

[Zepper]

Abit tried that but they went over like a lead balloon. They haven't repeated that mistake.
. And they weren't mATX boards with integrated video either. You can get a video card w/ only DVI output if that's your desire. And those Abit mobos are still out there if you want one. excaliberPC.com had some in their refurb section last time I looked. But they are all based on a generation or two old chipsets. Happy hunting boobela...

.bh.

 

[TaylorMaC692]

Hate to burst your bubble, but analog out is a MUST on a high end HTPC (as well as a high priced soundcard from RME or lynx or m-audio, something comparable). You need to use the analog outs for dvd-a and any WMVHD that's out there unless you have a 5G receiver that decodes wma (there's only one). Maybe for a low-end HTPC digital audio is the only priority. Also, depending on your card, analog outputs may be the only one's that don't get mangled by k-mixer for bitperfect sound output.

I'm not saying digital audio isn't a necessity, it is. But I am saying that analog is every bit as important for the "High-end" htpc.

 

[htmlmasterdave]

Also for a mouse ps/2 is better than usb

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

"Better" in what way? Plenty of people (including gamers) use usb mice with no ill effect. Sounds like a fallacy to me.

Anyways, why worry about a few extra ports? I think legacy ports should go too, but I wouldn't really let it influence a purchase.

 

[htmlmasterdave]

USB has a 120hz refresh, and I'm not sure about the buffer.... it also has higher cpu usage than ps/2. ps/2 can have a 200hz refresh rate and I think it can have a larger buffer.... it's better

 

[CZroe]

Originally posted by: Zepper
Abit tried that but they went over like a lead balloon. They haven't repeated that mistake.
. And they weren't mATX boards with integrated video either. You can get a video card w/ only DVI output if that's your desire. And those Abit mobos are still out there if you want one. excaliberPC.com had some in their refurb section last time I looked. But they are all based on a generation or two old chipsets. Happy hunting boobela...

.bh.

And they, sadly, were not mATX

Originally posted by: TaylorMaC692
Hate to burst your bubble, but analog out is a MUST on a high end HTPC (as well as a high priced soundcard from RME or lynx or m-audio, something comparable). You need to use the analog outs for dvd-a and any WMVHD that's out there unless you have a 5G receiver that decodes wma (there's only one). Maybe for a low-end HTPC digital audio is the only priority. Also, depending on your card, analog outputs may be the only one's that don't get mangled by k-mixer for bitperfect sound output.

I'm not saying digital audio isn't a necessity, it is. But I am saying that analog is every bit as important for the "High-end" htpc.

A DVD player can output DVD-Audio through optical, so why couldn't a PC? Besides, I'm not really looking to replace the DVD player.

The goal isn't to be high-end, but to be fully functional and modern with a minimalist profile. For instance, it could be a Media Center PC with a MPEG2 TV tuner and a PCI riser card (For horizontal arrangement). No HDTV tuner and audio mixing board No need for an AGP riser card and a multi-function AGP video card if DVI is integrated on the board with decent onboard video. That's why the nForce2 platform appeals to me despite the aging CPUs. SoundStorm digital outputs, Firewire, USB2.0, and integrated video (DVI-capable, but only seen implemented with a riser card).

Originally posted by: htmlmasterdave
USB has a 120hz refresh, and I'm not sure about the buffer.... it also has higher cpu usage than ps/2. ps/2 can have a 200hz refresh rate and I think it can have a larger buffer.... it's better

Refresh rate != DPI. Besides, a larger buffer is a bad thing. USB is buffered so that's a disadvantage but I've never heard someone complain that USB network devices added X amount of miliseconds to their ping time so I'm convinced that it's irrelevant. Some older PS/2 optical mice would refresh their position faster with a faster refresh rate but it's useless for any modern USB-native mouse from the way I understand it. |

 

[htmlmasterdave]

USB network cards are horrible in my experience... really slow, esp usb 1.1 ones.

Also when did I apparently say refresh = dpi?

 

[tart666]

what is the problem again with a few free extra ports?? microATX back panel has giant amounts of space anyway... It would be understandable if you were looking for a nano-ITX, or the small BTX board with the outputs you do want, but whining about free ports? that just silly

 

[GoSharks]

Originally posted by: CZroe
A DVD player can output DVD-Audio through optical, so why couldn't a PC? Besides, I'm not really looking to replace the DVD player.

no it cant. DVD-A must be output using analog.

 

[CZroe]

Originally posted by: htmlmasterdave
USB network cards are horrible in my experience... really slow, esp usb 1.1 ones.

Also when did I apparently say refresh = dpi?

Latency!=Bandwidth

I was just saying that refresh rate does not equate with DPI as an indicator of increased mouse performance except for those very few optical mice. It's just how often your PC polls for mouse positional data. As long as it's getting every DPI of precision from the quickest movements you make, it can't get any better. USB is plenty capable of that for any reasonable DPI and movement speed. It's the mouse's optical sensor that typically falls-short.

If anything were to respond with motion to any change using the insane DPI of some of the Razor Mouse implementations you would NEVER get a stable response. Using a 200hz refresh rate to sample a portion of this positional data becomes totally unreasonable.

Originally posted by: tart666
what is the problem again with a few free extra ports?? microATX back panel has giant amounts of space anyway... It would be understandable if you were looking for a nano-ITX, or the small BTX board with the outputs you do want, but whining about free ports? that just silly

The problem is not that they use up space, but that they sacrifice standard connectors to include them. For instance, DVI and digital audio are typically replaced with VGA and analog audio. Then they pretend that the problem is solved with a riser card or something. This is unacceptable for anything low-profile.

Originally posted by: GOSHARKS

Originally posted by: CZroe
A DVD player can output DVD-Audio through optical, so why couldn't a PC? Besides, I'm not really looking to replace the DVD player.

no it cant. DVD-A must be output using analog.

So, DVD-Audio is supposed to bring digital surround-sound to audio formats yet it requires an analog output? Your encoding must be analog? What, does it only support Pro Logic while DVD-Video supports more formats? That's not logical

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: htmlmasterdave
USB network cards are horrible in my experience... really slow, esp usb 1.1 ones.

Also when did I apparently say refresh = dpi?

*looks at USB nic dangling from legacy-free box* I get 500kb/s + no problems through this thing.

If you've got a network pipe fast enough to overwhelm even USB1, you should have enough money to afford a better system.

- M4H

 

[htmlmasterdave]

*cough* 10/100/1000 ethernet *cough*

 

[TaylorMaC692]

dvd-a can't be output through optical. it requires analog ports.

and don't talk about high-end HTPC's, while at the same time saying analog outputs are useless in them.

If your goal is a high-end HTPC, look for an RME Digipad 96/8, good card.

 

[Zepper]

CZ,

. First line, second paragraph re. Abit, "And they weren't mATX boards with integrated video either."
.bh.

 

[GoSharks]

Originally posted by: CZroe
So, DVD-Audio is supposed to bring digital surround-sound to audio formats yet it requires an analog output? Your encoding must be analog? What, does it only support Pro Logic while DVD-Video supports more formats? That's not logical

the audio is digital - just that it is decoded in the dvd player and sent to the reciever in an analog form. its copy protection, and SACD is the same thing.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: GOSHARKS

Originally posted by: CZroe
So, DVD-Audio is supposed to bring digital surround-sound to audio formats yet it requires an analog output? Your encoding must be analog? What, does it only support Pro Logic while DVD-Video supports more formats? That's not logical

the audio is digital - just that it is decoded in the dvd player and sent to the reciever in an analog form. its copy protection, and SACD is the same thing.

What then, are those digital outputs used for?

 

[GoSharks]

audio on DVD-video discs.

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Originally posted by: htmlmasterdave
*cough* 10/100/1000 ethernet *cough*

Um, well obviously -- usb being ~11mbps and usb 2.0 being 400-some mbps -- usb can be a bottleneck if the network it is connected to runs at a faster speed. Just like normal PCI doesn't quite cut it for gig ethernet. It's not like it's some secret that no one knows about; it's obvious that a usb network adapter will not handle a 100mbps network at 100mpbs, since usb is only ~11mpbs. And I would wager that a large portion of usb network connectors are used by clueless people for hooking up to their cable/dsl modem -- and in that situation, 11mbps is quite adequate. usb 2.0 is pretty widespread nowadays, and that's more than capable enough to handle a 100mbps network, which is what most are (or less).

And cpu use? I've used usb on my p233, and *never* noticed usb activity using up any noticeable amount of cpu time. My p4 can decode mp3s (not to mention all of the other countless things it's doing behind the scenes), and stay at 98-100% idle. You seriously think that some input device driver is going to slow down your computer?

You seem to have some sort of paranoia about usb, why? And of all things to favor.. the ps/2 port? You still using your serial ports too?

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: GOSHARKS
audio on DVD-video discs.

nm...I'm tired, sorry there. Completely missed the -A.
I'll stick w/ CD-DA until THAT DRM gets broken