Any sympathy for people who get hounded by creditors?

[Casawi]

I don't man... I went to the hospital last year for an emergency and got a bill for $212... they did nothing to me, but tell me that I will be fine in a couple of days. I don't see why that should cost a citizen $212?

I had a cardio test done and that was like a couple of thousands, it took 15minutes of machine + nurse time. Now for an hourly wage worker who makes $15-$20 an hour, that's outrageous.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: ChaoZ
You wouldn't feel that way when they mistake you for someone else and won't stop calling you cause they don't believe you.

actually i have had several debtors call me after i got a new cell #.....I politely told them they had the wrong number and asked them to kindly take me off their list....problem solved.

if they needed more proof other than my word that I was not who they were looking for I would have provided it......what's the problem?

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: Casawi
I don't man... I went to the hospital last year for an emergency and got a bill for $212... they did nothing to me, but tell me that I will be fine in a couple of days. I don't see why that should cost a citizen $212?

I had a cardio test done and that was like a couple of thousands, it took 15minutes of machine + nurse time. Now for an hourly wage worker who makes $15-$20 an hour, that's outrageous.

what is your health worth?

go ahead name it...put a price on it.

 

[FelixDeCat]

I would like to point out that this has nothing to do with the honorable hobby of scum collecting.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: FeuerFrei

Originally posted by: torpid
None here. A hospital is morally obligated to provide service to people, even if they can't afford the exorbitant rates. This, of course, depends on the procedures performed.

O RLY? A hospital is obliged to render free services? :Q
Compassionate individuals perhaps, but not the hospital.

Compassion is irrelevant here. Any public hospital is funded partially or largely by the public. Its purpose is to provide emergency and non-emergency health care to the same public. They are morally obligated to provide service to the public without bankrupting those members of the public (that paid for the hospital) that don't have health insurance. That most hospitals aren't set up in this way doesn't mean it's ok.

 

[oznerol]

Originally posted by: Homerboy

Originally posted by: ducci
I wish medical costs were better presented before anything is done. Emergency procedures aside, very rarely will they inform you how much an IV, CAT scan, MRI, or anything else costs. Even the costs of a general checkup from a physician is shrouded in mystery - only to blindside you after it's done.

I get that you're there to get healed, regardless of the costs, but I can't help but think in non-life-critical cases, knowing what they will charge beforehand would let you shop around for a better quote - not much different than an auto mechanic.

Insurance covers this up a bit as people figure they'll only have to pay their deductible/co-pay, but if you have no insurance or crappy insurance, (or if the insurance company rejects a claim as they love to do), these bills can catch you off-guard and seriously screw you financially.

Agreed. But again, how is this the collection agencies fault/issue/problem?

It's not their fault, really, but I think it's all connected - and it definitely becomes their problem when patients refuse to pay.

It's possible people would be more inclined to pay their debts if they knew what they were getting into beforehand. In most of these cases, there's an initial, "It cost how much" moment, followed by an, "I'm not paying that" moment.

It's particularly common when people go to the ER for basic aches and pains - generally because they have no insurance but will receive care regardless of that. They will wait for 3 hours, get looked at for 10 minutes, maybe be given some precautionary but ultimately unnecessary procedure, and receive a bill for $1000+.

I think if the costs of these things were made known to the patient before anything was done, they wouldn't be overwhelmed when the final bill comes in. Ultimately I think people should pay their debts, but I think it's in everyone's best interest to let the patient know exactly what they're getting into.

Originally posted by: Casawi
I don't man... I went to the hospital last year for an emergency and got a bill for $212... they did nothing to me, but tell me that I will be fine in a couple of days. I don't see why that should cost a citizen $212?

I had a cardio test done and that was like a couple of thousands, it took 15minutes of machine + nurse time. Now for an hourly wage worker who makes $15-$20 an hour, that's outrageous.

I think responses like this are quite common.

 

[compuwiz1]

Originally posted by: Joemonkey

Originally posted by: Homerboy
I worked in a large, successful collection agency for over 5yrs. (I was the Network Admin and IT Manager so no first-hand collections experience myself). I was good friends with a lot of the collection staff and departmental managers. We did all kinds of collections from CC, to property taxes to medical. The only ones that I ever had some sympathy for were the medical ones as many of the times they were surgeries they people HAD to have, but simply could not afford. (Sorry... running up a $5k Target CC is not going to win sympathy from me). In fact many of the collectors and managers felt very much the same way as I did.

I have to serious LAUGH at you people calling collectors scum and such... LOL it is too damned funny.

QFT! I too used to work in a law firm with a collections department. At first i HATED those people, but after overhearing some phone calls I realized the "scum" as ida likes to say were the ones that simply didn't pay their damn bills. What do these people honestly think, there's some statute of limitations on debt? that if they ignore it long enough it will go away?

There is a statute of limitations on certain debts and at a point in time, depending on which state one lives in, at 4 years, 6 years, etc., the only response one needs give the collection agency is to tell them "this debt is no longer collectible, have a nice day". The next step is to hang up. You then send them a no contact request by certified mail. Once they have been notified in writing, they must stop all contact, per laws of your jurisdiction. They can drag you into court and if they do so outside the statute of limitations, you simply ask the judge to dismiss due to statute of limitations having expired.

In Ca., after 4 years since date of last activity, you can tell the collector to basically go pound off.

Statute of limitations by state

California Statutes of Limitation

Written agreements: 4 years, calculated from the date of breach.

Oral agreements: 2 years.

The statute of limitation is stopped only if the debtor makes a payment on the account after the expiration of the applicable limitations period.

I'm not advocating that people not pay their legitimate bills, but there are circumstances where there is erroneous billing and other such issues like ID theft.

 

[Homerboy]

Originally posted by: ducci

Originally posted by: Homerboy

Originally posted by: ducci
I wish medical costs were better presented before anything is done. Emergency procedures aside, very rarely will they inform you how much an IV, CAT scan, MRI, or anything else costs. Even the costs of a general checkup from a physician is shrouded in mystery - only to blindside you after it's done.

I get that you're there to get healed, regardless of the costs, but I can't help but think in non-life-critical cases, knowing what they will charge beforehand would let you shop around for a better quote - not much different than an auto mechanic.

Insurance covers this up a bit as people figure they'll only have to pay their deductible/co-pay, but if you have no insurance or crappy insurance, (or if the insurance company rejects a claim as they love to do), these bills can catch you off-guard and seriously screw you financially.

Agreed. But again, how is this the collection agencies fault/issue/problem?

It's not their fault, really, but I think it's all connected - and it definitely becomes their problem when patients refuse to pay.

It's possible people would be more inclined to pay their debts if they knew what they were getting into beforehand. In most of these cases, there's an initial, "It cost how much" moment, followed by an, "I'm not paying that" moment.

It's particularly common when people go to the ER for basic aches and pains - generally because they have no insurance but will receive care regardless of that. They will wait for 3 hours, get looked at for 10 minutes, maybe be given some precautionary but ultimately unnecessary procedure, and receive a bill for $1000+.

I think if the costs of these things were made known to the patient before anything was done, they wouldn't be overwhelmed when the final bill comes in. Ultimately I think people should pay their debts, but I think it's in everyone's best interest to let the patient know exactly what they're getting into.

Originally posted by: Casawi
I don't man... I went to the hospital last year for an emergency and got a bill for $212... they did nothing to me, but tell me that I will be fine in a couple of days. I don't see why that should cost a citizen $212?

I had a cardio test done and that was like a couple of thousands, it took 15minutes of machine + nurse time. Now for an hourly wage worker who makes $15-$20 an hour, that's outrageous.

I think responses like this are quite common.

Explain why they would go to an ER for such a thing... I know people do, but ignorance is no excuse. It would be MUCH cheaper for them (and the hospital) if they would go to a regular doctor's office, or a walk in, or even Urgent Care. Instead they pick THE MOST EXPENSIVE option, then piss about the bill (and that it took 3hrs to be looked at for 10mins). If you don't have insurance, then you need a better plan for "general aches and pains" or a case of the sniffles.

 

[LS21]

Originally posted by: Wheezer
what is your health worth?

go ahead name it...put a price on it.

i used to go to this chiropractor. each session i met with him for 5 minutes:
-1 session he gives me a ball and says go home and roll your forehead against the ball, as exercise.
-another he said pinch your shoulderblades together regularly, as exercise.
-another he said tuck your chin in regularly, as exercise.

after this 5 minutes of instruction, his assistant hooked my shoulders up to a weak massaging machine (think Sharper Image) for 20 minutes, then excused me.

it cost me maybe 15$ a visit, but when i looked at the insurance bills, they took in 400$ a pop. to my employer/insurer/whatever.

is that worth 400$? i dont think so





1 year ago i went to an ENT for a septoplasty. he scheduled to perform a surgery at a local hospital, and some outpatient visits.

i have quite extensive insurance coverage, to which the ENT is networked. im only liable for 20$ per visit, whenever asked for at the clinic.

6 months later, i get a bill from the hospital. then a separate bill from the anesthesiologist. then some bill from some sort of anesthiosiology union/group. then assorted bills from the ENT's clinic.

when I called them each, it was excuses after excuses:
"we lost your insurance information"
"we're not united/networked with the hospital or anesthiosologist so billing must be split"
"you have to call YOUR insurance to resolve this, our system just shows youre liable to pay"


what the fuck? i have a problem. i go to THE doctor. doctor has ALL of my private and financial information. whatever THE doctor does, why cant he sort out ONE bill for my insurer and ONE bill for which im liable out-of-pocket?


over a year later, i still regularly receive assorted bills from the ENT clinic.
"oh, we forgot to collect this charge before"
"that bill wasnt cleared through our system"

Once I detailed a note in a reply to the bill saying "you have all of my insurance record, take care of YOUR business, bill me ONCE for what i owe"

They kept sending more bills. Now I simply write "fuck you" on the bill and send it back


Am I trying to duck my bills? Am I a bad debtor? I have money. I have morals. I have, do, and will pay what I should. So get it over with and leave me the fuck alone

 

[Homerboy]

The resounding consensus from what I can see is that people here have an issue with Insurance and Hospitals and their charges and subsequent billing systems. I'm not sure how this, in turn then becomes a "problem" people have with collection agencies.

 

[oznerol]

Originally posted by: Homerboy
Explain why they would go to an ER for such a thing... I know people do, but ignorance is no excuse. It would be MUCH cheaper for them (and the hospital) if they would go to a regular doctor's office, or a walk in, or even Urgent Care. Instead they pick THE MOST EXPENSIVE option, then piss about the bill (and that it took 3hrs to be looked at for 10mins). If you don't have insurance, then you need a better plan for "general aches and pains" or a case of the sniffles.

People go to the ER because it's the quickest way to get care if you have no insurance and can't pay in cash. They are required by law to give care first, request payment later.

A personal physician is not under the same obligation (edit: at least not to my knowledge. Not 100% sure).

 

[Casawi]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: Casawi
I don't man... I went to the hospital last year for an emergency and got a bill for $212... they did nothing to me, but tell me that I will be fine in a couple of days. I don't see why that should cost a citizen $212?

I had a cardio test done and that was like a couple of thousands, it took 15minutes of machine + nurse time. Now for an hourly wage worker who makes $15-$20 an hour, that's outrageous.

what is your health worth?

go ahead name it...put a price on it.

exactly. that's why it cost too damn much.

 

[torpid]

Originally posted by: ducci

Originally posted by: Homerboy
Explain why they would go to an ER for such a thing... I know people do, but ignorance is no excuse. It would be MUCH cheaper for them (and the hospital) if they would go to a regular doctor's office, or a walk in, or even Urgent Care. Instead they pick THE MOST EXPENSIVE option, then piss about the bill (and that it took 3hrs to be looked at for 10mins). If you don't have insurance, then you need a better plan for "general aches and pains" or a case of the sniffles.

People go to the ER because it's the quickest way to get care if you have no insurance and can't pay in cash. They are required by law to give care first, request payment later.

A personal physician is not under the same obligation (edit: at least not to my knowledge. Not 100% sure).

Not only quickest, but sometimes the only way.

 

[Joemonkey]

Originally posted by: compuwiz1

Originally posted by: Joemonkey

Originally posted by: Homerboy
I worked in a large, successful collection agency for over 5yrs. (I was the Network Admin and IT Manager so no first-hand collections experience myself). I was good friends with a lot of the collection staff and departmental managers. We did all kinds of collections from CC, to property taxes to medical. The only ones that I ever had some sympathy for were the medical ones as many of the times they were surgeries they people HAD to have, but simply could not afford. (Sorry... running up a $5k Target CC is not going to win sympathy from me). In fact many of the collectors and managers felt very much the same way as I did.

I have to serious LAUGH at you people calling collectors scum and such... LOL it is too damned funny.

QFT! I too used to work in a law firm with a collections department. At first i HATED those people, but after overhearing some phone calls I realized the "scum" as ida likes to say were the ones that simply didn't pay their damn bills. < What do these people honestly think, there's some statute of limitations on debt? that if they ignore it long enough it will go away?

There is a statute of limitations on certain debts and at a point in time, depending on which state one lives in, at 4 years, 6 years, etc., the only response one needs give the collection agency is to tell them "this debt is no longer collectible, have a nice day". The next step is to hang up. You then send them a no contact request by certified mail. Once they have been notified in writing, they must stop all contact, per laws of your jurisdiction. They can drag you into court and if they do so outside the statute of limitations, you simply ask the judge to dismiss due to statute of limitations having expired.

In Ca., after 4 years since date of last activity, you can tell the collector to basically go pound off.

Statute of limitations by state

California Statutes of Limitation

Written agreements: 4 years, calculated from the date of breach.

Oral agreements: 2 years.

The statute of limitation is stopped only if the debtor makes a payment on the account after the expiration of the applicable limitations period.

I'm not advocating that people not pay their legitimate bills, but there are circumstances where there is erroneous billing and other such issues like ID theft.

what exactly is "since date of last activity" anyway? Does that just means the collection agency has to make sure the person was contacted or something was filed in court every 3 years 364 days?

 

[dullard]

For people who knowingly had no insurance, knowingly used medical care, knowingly didn't pay, and knowingly abuse the system: no sympathy. Creditors should hound away.

For people who's insurance denied something that was supposed to be covered: yes lots of sympathy.

For people who can't work (I mean truely can't work): yes lots of sympathy.

For people who fradulently or erroneously were sent to collections: yes lots of sympathy. Creditors who hound them are the worst of the worst.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Medical bills are the one kind of debt for which I do have sympathy, especially coming from the perspective of having a family member with chronic illnesses that would bankrupt us without insurance.

If I had to, I would certainly make use of any emergency/life-saving hospital service and not even consider the fact that I can't pay for it. My and my loved ones' lives, and qualities >*8 than the Hospital's need to be paid.

 

[compuwiz1]

Originally posted by: Joemonkey

Originally posted by: compuwiz1

Originally posted by: Joemonkey

Originally posted by: Homerboy
I worked in a large, successful collection agency for over 5yrs. (I was the Network Admin and IT Manager so no first-hand collections experience myself). I was good friends with a lot of the collection staff and departmental managers. We did all kinds of collections from CC, to property taxes to medical. The only ones that I ever had some sympathy for were the medical ones as many of the times they were surgeries they people HAD to have, but simply could not afford. (Sorry... running up a $5k Target CC is not going to win sympathy from me). In fact many of the collectors and managers felt very much the same way as I did.

I have to serious LAUGH at you people calling collectors scum and such... LOL it is too damned funny.

QFT! I too used to work in a law firm with a collections department. At first i HATED those people, but after overhearing some phone calls I realized the "scum" as ida likes to say were the ones that simply didn't pay their damn bills. << What do these people honestly think, there's some statute of limitations on debt? that if they ignore it long enough it will go away?

There is a statute of limitations on certain debts and at a point in time, depending on which state one lives in, at 4 years, 6 years, etc., the only response one needs give the collection agency is to tell them "this debt is no longer collectible, have a nice day". The next step is to hang up. You then send them a no contact request by certified mail. Once they have been notified in writing, they must stop all contact, per laws of your jurisdiction. They can drag you into court and if they do so outside the statute of limitations, you simply ask the judge to dismiss due to statute of limitations having expired.

In Ca., after 4 years since date of last activity, you can tell the collector to basically go pound off.

Statute of limitations by state

California Statutes of Limitation

Written agreements: 4 years, calculated from the date of breach.

Oral agreements: 2 years.

The statute of limitation is stopped only if the debtor makes a payment on the account after the expiration of the applicable limitations period.

I'm not advocating that people not pay their legitimate bills, but there are circumstances where there is erroneous billing and other such issues like ID theft.

what exactly is "since date of last activity" anyway? Does that just means the collection agency has to make sure the person was contacted or something was filed in court every 3 years 364 days?

Date of last activity can mean date of breach, date of last payment, date of official default. If somebody is 3 years past due on a bill and they send a payment, the clock starts all over again to day one. That means the creditor has 4 years again to collect the debt before the statute of limitations runs out. If a debtor manages to avoid collections, court, wage garnishment, etc., for 4 years, as an example, that debt is no longer collectible. The clock does not restart everytime a new collection agency is assigned to the debt. As far as I know, the only debts exempt from this rule are state and federal taxes, child support and student loans.

How do I know all this? A close relative went thru a divorce and was left with no means to pay the massive debts that were accumulated during the course of the marriage. At approximately year five, some collectors filed suit. On 3 occasions the cases were thrown out of court, citing the statute of limitations. Not only that, but all the collection agencies that these accounts had been kept getting sold and resold to ended up having their entrys on her credit bureau removed.

 

[ScottyB]

For medical bills, you can just tell them you are going to pay $10 a month and then pay them that. They will set up the payment schedule accordingly. Of course, that might not be for big bills.

 

[zCypher]

No sympathy really. Most collectors are scum? Well there's only one reason for that, cause most people they're collecting from are scum too - you can't get people to pay by saying "please, pretty please with a cherry on top pay your bill!" when the customer is like "I'm going to kill you". I've had to deal with collectors before, and no I didn't appreciate the bitch ones but I understand why it is the way it is... The solution is to pay/settle the amount due. I never needed anyone's sympathy for that.

 

[ultimatebob]

I'll take some pity on some of them. I'll bet that a lot of those people thought that their lousy health insurance was going to pay those bills, and they got hung out to dry when their claims got rejected for various reasons.

I know how this feels from experience. I once had a horrid health insurance plan from my employer that supposedly covered $10,000 a year in medical expenses... which had some fine print that said that they only cover $2,500 worth of emergency room visit expenses. I had an unlucky streak where I had a broken arm and a kidney stone within a month of each other, and ended up getting saddled with $5,000 of additional medical expenses.

 

[wiredspider]

For medical? yea, I got some for them since healthcare costs are astronomical. Cost me like $400 to WAIT in the ER for 4 hours. The doc spent like 2 minutes with me and he had his own separate bill.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I have no pity, as they just have to move to Canada and get free health care. Or heck, I think france has a even better health care system. (yes, you have to pay taxes which pay for health care, but at least you are not paying a ton of cash when a serious health requirement comes)

 

[SmoochyTX]

I take pity on most people who have medical debts. Well, unless they're going to the ER for some stupid shit like an average cough or a fever of 100 degrees.

My story: I was assaulted one night back in 2005. Police came out, pictures of my injuries taken, charges pressed, the whole deal. I refused medical attention at the time against the police officers' advice. The next day, when I couldn't see out of one eye and barely out of another, I DROVE MYSELF to the Emergency Room because I was worried I might have broken bones in my FACE and because I knew how much an ambulance ride would cost. X-rays were taken, shots given, and I was released. My insurance covered everything EXCEPT the Physician's Assistant bill for actually giving me shots (took him about a minute to do so). The county handling the criminal case said that any medical bills that weren't covered by my insurance would be paid out of a victim's compensation fund.

Guess what? The person that assaulted me was found guilty and sentenced to jail because of it. I never received any compensation for that fucking PA bill that wasn't covered. To this day, I still don't understand why my insurance didn't cover the bill. It's not like we're talking about thousands of dollars. The bill was for $192. I didn't cause the injury to myself. The person who did it served their time. And yet I was stuck with that bill. And I refuse to pay it. Fuck them.

Sorry for the rant. It just pisses me off when people put medical debts into the same category as other stupid ass debts.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: ultimatebob
I'll take some pity on some of them. I'll bet that a lot of those people thought that their lousy health insurance was going to pay those bills, and they got hung out to dry when their claims got rejected for various reasons.

I know how this feels from experience. I once had a horrid health insurance plan from my employer that supposedly covered $10,000 a year in medical expenses... which had some fine print that said that they only cover $2,500 worth of emergency room visit expenses. I had an unlucky streak where I had a broken arm and a kidney stone within a month of each other, and ended up getting saddled with $5,000 of additional medical expenses.

That's exactly the kind of insurance plan I was offered, and passed (got my own), when I worked under a parent company that owned restaurants, and as such offered even their professional full-time employees the same shit plans they offered wait staff. I've also seen similar plans in retail.

My old co-worker had to undergo an emergency appendectomy on that plan, which had a few complications. It left him something like $20K in medical debt when he made $12.50/hour.

 

[Gooberlx2]

Originally posted by: SmoochyTX
I take pity on most people who have medical debts. Well, unless they're going to the ER for some stupid shit like an average cough or a fever of 100 degrees.

My story: I was assaulted one night back in 2005. Police came out, pictures of my injuries taken, charges pressed, the whole deal. I refused medical attention at the time against the police officers' advice. The next day, when I couldn't see out of one eye and barely out of another, I DROVE MYSELF to the Emergency Room because I was worried I might have broken bones in my FACE and because I knew how much an ambulance ride would cost. X-rays were taken, shots given, and I was released. My insurance covered everything EXCEPT the Physician's Assistant bill for actually giving me shots (took him about a minute to do so). The county handling the criminal case said that any medical bills that weren't covered by my insurance would be paid out of a victim's compensation fund.

Guess what? The person that assaulted me was found guilty and sentenced to jail because of it. I never received any compensation for that fucking PA bill that wasn't covered. To this day, I still don't understand why my insurance didn't cover the bill. It's not like we're talking about thousands of dollars. The bill was for $192. I didn't cause the injury to myself. The person who did it served their time. And yet I was stuck with that bill. And I refuse to pay it. Fuck them.

Sorry for the rant. It just pisses me off when people put medical debts into the same category as other stupid ass debts.

You probably hadn't met your deductible, so the "procedure" isn't covered under the co-pay for the doctor's visit. Yeah, it's fucking dumb.