Any reason not to go Xeon Haswell?

[Brunnis]

Interesting... So, the ultimate S1150 Haswell right now is the Xeon E3-1285v3? It has all features enabled, including graphics, and has 3.6GHz base clock and 4GHz turbo clock. And the same TDP as the other ones. Shame about the price, though...

Spec comparison to 4770K: http://ark.intel.com/compare/75465,75123

 

[zir_blazer]

I made this list some days ago, you should check if Newegg changed prices:

Wikipedia Haswell list

Core i5 4430 - 4C/4T, 3.0-3.2 GHz, 6 MB Cache L3, HD 4600, 0.35-1.10 GHz, 84W TDP - 190 U$D <- No vPro or TSX, curiously got VT-d
Core i5 4570 - 4C/4T, 3.2-3.6 GHz, 6 MB Cache L3, HD 4600, 0.35-1.15 GHz, 84W TDP - 210 U$D
Xeon E3 1225 V3 - 4C/4T, 3.2-3.6 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, HD 4600P, 0.35-1.20 GHz, 84W TDP, ECC - 240 U$D
Core i5 4670 - 4C/4T, 3.4-3.8 GHz, 6 MB Cache L3, HD 4600, 0.35-1.20 GHz, 84W TDP - 230 U$D
Xeon E3 1245 V3 - 4C/8T, 3.4-3.8 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, HD 4600P, 0.35-1.20 GHz, 84W TDP, ECC - 290 U$D
Core i7 4770 - 4C/8T, 3.4-3.9 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, HD 4600, 0.35-1.20 GHz, 84W TDP - 320 U$D
Xeon E3 1275 V3 - 4C/8T, 3.5-3.9 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, HD 4600P, 0.35-1.25 GHz, 84W TDP, ECC - 365 U$D

Xeons has support for ECC Memory Modules, and also has a "Professional" GPU with certified lines that should be similar to what nVidia and AMD do with their Quadros and FirePros. The E3 1245 V3 is a clear winner to me, as it is 30 U$Ds cheaper than the Core i7 4770 and nearly equal in specs you lose 100 MHz on Turbo but get ECC support, HD 4600P, and the Xeon brand name.
Considering that Haswell is not an stellar overclocker, you may not lose anything too important. In my case, I can't go for a K series, because Intel REMOVES support for VT-d, that I need it, vPro, TXT, and on Haswell, the new TSX too.

 

[crashtech]

I made this list some days ago, you should check if Newegg changed prices:

Wikipedia Haswell list

Core i5 4430 - 4C/4T, 3.0-3.2 GHz, 6 MB Cache L3, HD 4600, 0.35-1.10 GHz, 84W TDP - 190 U$D <- No vPro or TSX, curiously got VT-d
Core i5 4570 - 4C/4T, 3.2-3.6 GHz, 6 MB Cache L3, HD 4600, 0.35-1.15 GHz, 84W TDP - 210 U$D
Xeon E3 1225 V3 - 4C/4T, 3.2-3.6 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, HD 4600P, 0.35-1.20 GHz, 84W TDP, ECC - 240 U$D
Core i5 4670 - 4C/4T, 3.4-3.8 GHz, 6 MB Cache L3, HD 4600, 0.35-1.20 GHz, 84W TDP - 230 U$D
Xeon E3 1245 V3 - 4C/8T, 3.4-3.8 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, HD 4600P, 0.35-1.20 GHz, 84W TDP, ECC - 290 U$D
Core i7 4770 - 4C/8T, 3.4-3.9 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, HD 4600, 0.35-1.20 GHz, 84W TDP - 320 U$D
Xeon E3 1275 V3 - 4C/8T, 3.5-3.9 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, HD 4600P, 0.35-1.25 GHz, 84W TDP, ECC - 365 U$D

Xeons has support for ECC Memory Modules, and also has a "Professional" GPU with certified lines that should be similar to what nVidia and AMD do with their Quadros and FirePros. The E3 1245 V3 is a clear winner to me, as it is 30 U$Ds cheaper than the Core i7 4770 and nearly equal in specs you lose 100 MHz on Turbo but get ECC support, HD 4600P, and the Xeon brand name.
Considering that Haswell is not an stellar overclocker, you may not lose anything too important. In my case, I can't go for a K series, because Intel REMOVES support for VT-d, that I need it, vPro, TXT, and on Haswell, the new TSX too.

Great list, but why no 1230, 1240, etc?

 

[zir_blazer]

Great list, but why no 1230, 1240, etc?

No GPU on these. I aimed for Core i similar or equivalents. And the 1285 is not there because Newegg didn't had it, and the suggested price for it on Intel Ark was like 600 U$D or so. Not worth it.

 

[crashtech]

It's just my opinion, but I think many who have an interest in the E3 will use a discrete video card. But thank you for the list, it is a helpful way to compare these CPUs.

 

[zir_blazer]

It's just my opinion, but I think many who have an interest in the E3 will use a discrete video card. But thank you for the list, it is a helpful way to compare these CPUs.

Considering the not that big price difference, I see no reason to miss the iGPU. Its actually a very useful backup GPU in case your discrete Video Card breaks or you want to move it to another machine. On my case, if I want to use VT-d to do passthorough of the Video Card to a Virtual Machine when using virtualization, the Hypervisor can't see that GPU any more, so in order to get video output, I would need to have a second GPU for the Hypervisor and any other VM that I could run fine with the emulated VGA Driver.

 

[TridenT]

Considering the not that big price difference, I see not reason to miss the iGPU. Its actually a very useful backup GPU in case your discrete Video Card breaks or you want to move it to another machine. On my case, if I want to use VT-d to do passthorough of the Video Card to a Virtual Machine when using virtualization, the Hypervisor can't see that GPU any more, so in order to get video output, I would need to have a second GPU for the Hypervisor and any other VM that I could run fine with the emulated VGA Driver.

I think you're a very uncommon case.

Most of us don't need or even want the integrated graphics. If I can cut down on the TDP by 15W by not getting integrated graphics, double-win.

 

[ShintaiDK]

I think you're a very uncommon case.

Most of us don't need or even want the integrated graphics. If I can cut down on the TDP by 15W by not getting integrated graphics, double-win.

The IGP adds 0W TDP if not used. Its simply gated and actually serves a purpose in keeping the rest of the CPU cooler due to dark silicon.

 

[TridenT]

The IGP adds 0W TDP if not used. Its simply gated and actually serves a purpose in keeping the rest of the CPU cooler due to dark silicon.

I would imagine it's actually still on the chip but just disabled...

 

[ShintaiDK]

I would imagine it's actually still on the chip but just disabled...

Yes, all LGA11xx chips got IGP. Just a matter of disabled or enabled.

 

[zir_blazer]

I think you're a very uncommon case.

Most of us don't need or even want the integrated graphics. If I can cut down on the TDP by 15W by not getting integrated graphics, double-win.

The versions of Xeons E3 V3 with the GPU disabled got just a 4W lower TDP.

Xeon E3 1220 V3 - 4C/4T, 3.2-3.6 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, ******NO GPU******, 80W TDP, ECC - 220 U$D
Xeon E3 1225 V3 - 4C/4T, 3.2-3.6 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, HD 4600P, 0.35-1.20 GHz, 84W TDP, ECC - 240 U$D
Xeon E3 1240 V3 - 4C/8T, 3.4-3.8 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, ******NO GPU******, 80W TDP, ECC - 280 U$D
Xeon E3 1245 V3 - 4C/8T, 3.4-3.8 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, HD 4600P, 0.35-1.20 GHz, 84W TDP, ECC - 290 U$D
Xeon E3 1270 V3 - 4C/8T, 3.5-3.9 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, ******NO GPU******, 80W TDP, ECC - 355 U$D
Xeon E3 1275 V3 - 4C/8T, 3.5-3.9 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, HD 4600P, 0.35-1.25 GHz, 84W TDP, ECC - 365 U$D

The only I would EVER consider is the 1220 because its a whole 20 U$D cheaper than the version with the GPU, and its also a bigger % of the total product price. But on the other two more expensive models is just 10 U$Ds. Would you NOT spend those extra 10 U$D to have an extra iGPU just in case? If you don't want it, you can disable it in the BIOS. Its better doing that yourself that when Intel does it for you.

 

[TridenT]

The versions of Xeons E3 V3 with the GPU disabled got just a 4W lower TDP.

Xeon E3 1220 V3 - 4C/4T, 3.2-3.6 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, ******NO GPU******, 80W TDP, ECC - 220 U$D
Xeon E3 1225 V3 - 4C/4T, 3.2-3.6 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, HD 4600P, 0.35-1.20 GHz, 84W TDP, ECC - 240 U$D
Xeon E3 1240 V3 - 4C/8T, 3.4-3.8 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, ******NO GPU******, 80W TDP, ECC - 280 U$D
Xeon E3 1245 V3 - 4C/8T, 3.4-3.8 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, HD 4600P, 0.35-1.20 GHz, 84W TDP, ECC - 290 U$D
Xeon E3 1270 V3 - 4C/8T, 3.5-3.9 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, ******NO GPU******, 80W TDP, ECC - 355 U$D
Xeon E3 1275 V3 - 4C/8T, 3.5-3.9 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, HD 4600P, 0.35-1.25 GHz, 84W TDP, ECC - 365 U$D

The only I would EVER consider is the 1220 because its a whole 20 U$D cheaper than the version with the GPU, and its also a bigger % of the total product price. But on the other two more expensive models is just 10 U$Ds. Would you NOT spend those extra 10 U$D to have an extra iGPU just in case? If you don't want it, you can disable it in the BIOS. Its better doing that yourself that when Intel does it for you.

Interesting. Newegg must've been misquoting figures then. I kept reading 95W in all the product headlines for all the ones with the IGP enabled.

Also, why the fuck would you get the 1220? It's basically a i5-4570 with 8MB cache. The 1230 is the most logical one.

Yes, all LGA11xx chips got IGP. Just a matter of disabled or enabled.

I guess I don't get the point of your dark silicon comment then. It seems irrelevant.

 

[zir_blazer]

Third edition of the Haswell comparision table, with both regular Core i5s, and Xeons E3 with and without GPU.

Wikipedia Haswell list


Core i5 4430 *** - 4C/4T, 3.0-3.2 GHz, 6 MB Cache L3, HD 4600, 0.35-1.10 GHz, 84W TDP - 190 U$D <- ^1
Core i5 4570 *** - 4C/4T, 3.2-3.6 GHz, 6 MB Cache L3, HD 4600, 0.35-1.15 GHz, 84W TDP - 210 U$D
Xeon E3 1220 V3 - 4C/4T, 3.2-3.6 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, ******NO GPU******, 80W TDP, ECC - 220 U$D
Xeon E3 1225 V3 - 4C/4T, 3.2-3.6 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, HD 4600P, 0.35-1.20 GHz, 84W TDP, ECC - 240 U$D
Xeon E3 1230 V3 - 4C/8T, 3.3-3.7 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, ******NO GPU******, 80W TDP, ECC - 270 U$D
Core i5 4670 *** - 4C/4T, 3.4-3.8 GHz, 6 MB Cache L3, HD 4600, 0.35-1.20 GHz, 84W TDP - 230 U$D
Xeon E3 1240 V3 - 4C/8T, 3.4-3.8 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, ******NO GPU******, 80W TDP, ECC - 280 U$D
Xeon E3 1245 V3 - 4C/8T, 3.4-3.8 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, HD 4600P, 0.35-1.20 GHz, 84W TDP, ECC - 290 U$D
Core i7 4770 *** - 4C/8T, 3.4-3.9 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, HD 4600, 0.35-1.20 GHz, 84W TDP - 320 U$D
Xeon E3 1270 V3 - 4C/8T, 3.5-3.9 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, ******NO GPU******, 80W TDP, ECC - 355 U$D
Xeon E3 1275 V3 - 4C/8T, 3.5-3.9 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, HD 4600P, 0.35-1.25 GHz, 84W TDP, ECC - 365 U$D

^1 = No vPro and TSX

Also, why the fuck would you get the 1220? It's basically a i5-4570 with 8MB cache. The 1230 is the most logical one.

Actually, its the other way around. The E3 1220 V3 got 8 MB Cache L3, doesn't have a GPU, and its just 10 U$Ds more than the i5 4570, so it fits the descripcion of what you want.
The E3 1230 V3 is one of the worst choices, as it is just 10 U$D lower than the 1240 (For an extra 100 MHz, but the bins jumps are usually more expensive than that), and 20 U$D under the full featured 1245.

 

[ShintaiDK]

I guess I don't get the point of your dark silicon comment then. It seems irrelevant.

Classic example from IB.

 

[TridenT]

Third edition of the Haswell comparision table, with both regular Core i5s, and Xeons E3 with and without GPU.

Wikipedia Haswell list


Core i5 4430 *** - 4C/4T, 3.0-3.2 GHz, 6 MB Cache L3, HD 4600, 0.35-1.10 GHz, 84W TDP - 190 U$D <- ^1
Core i5 4570 *** - 4C/4T, 3.2-3.6 GHz, 6 MB Cache L3, HD 4600, 0.35-1.15 GHz, 84W TDP - 210 U$D
Xeon E3 1220 V3 - 4C/4T, 3.2-3.6 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, ******NO GPU******, 80W TDP, ECC - 220 U$D
Xeon E3 1225 V3 - 4C/4T, 3.2-3.6 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, HD 4600P, 0.35-1.20 GHz, 84W TDP, ECC - 240 U$D
Xeon E3 1230 V3 - 4C/8T, 3.3-3.7 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, ******NO GPU******, 80W TDP, ECC - 270 U$D
Core i5 4670 *** - 4C/4T, 3.4-3.8 GHz, 6 MB Cache L3, HD 4600, 0.35-1.20 GHz, 84W TDP - 230 U$D
Xeon E3 1240 V3 - 4C/8T, 3.4-3.8 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, ******NO GPU******, 80W TDP, ECC - 280 U$D
Xeon E3 1245 V3 - 4C/8T, 3.4-3.8 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, HD 4600P, 0.35-1.20 GHz, 84W TDP, ECC - 290 U$D
Core i7 4770 *** - 4C/8T, 3.4-3.9 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, HD 4600, 0.35-1.20 GHz, 84W TDP - 320 U$D
Xeon E3 1270 V3 - 4C/8T, 3.5-3.9 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, ******NO GPU******, 80W TDP, ECC - 355 U$D
Xeon E3 1275 V3 - 4C/8T, 3.5-3.9 GHz, 8 MB Cache L3, HD 4600P, 0.35-1.25 GHz, 84W TDP, ECC - 365 U$D

^1 = No vPro and TSX


Actually, its the other way around. The E3 1220 V3 got 8 MB Cache L3, doesn't have a GPU, and its just 10 U$Ds more than the i5 4570, so it fits the descripcion of what you want.
The E3 1230 V3 is one of the worst choices, as it is just 10 U$D lower than the 1240 (For an extra 100 MHz, but the bins jumps are usually more expensive than that), and 20 U$D under the full featured 1245.

I don't get the point of getting the 1220. It's a more expensive i5-4570 with no gpu. It has 8MB cache, but that's the only upside of it. I would assume the reason the 4770 is better than the 4570 is not just higher clock but also because it has HT. The 1220 doesn't have HT. The 1230 does (Thus it's a 100mhz slower 4770 but for $50 less). You could get a 1240 which is the same clock speed. I'll probably do that since it's only $10. I don't think 8MB cache and 100-200mhz clock increase is going to be the only thing that gives that 10-33% increase in speed from a 4670
to 4770. I would assume HT is the real reason.

Classic example from IB.

What I'm saying is, what's the point of bringing up dark silicon IF BOTH processors have dark silicon, essentially?

 

[BahbRF]

Cpu-world.com says that the Haswell Xeons (specifically E3 1245v3 in my case) dont support FMA3 or F16C instructions while the 4770 does. But I can't find this anywhere else that says this.

My questions are:
1) Is this true? I can't find anywhere else that backs this up.
2) Is it that big a deal? I mainly do some gaming, video transcoding, and I compile quite bit of stuff thanks to school.

 

[crashtech]

I think it's funny that they don't have a 1235.
At these price points, I'd have to say the 1240 represents the best value, just 100MHz away from a 4770 for $40 less. I will hazard a guess that most enthusiasts don't really care about the IGP, for example, at any given time I have several video cards laying around that will do in a pinch.

 

[Magic Carpet]

Ah i dont know if the IGP is also the same class...
That could also be another difference.

work horse no needs dx3d...

Ivy Bridge Xeons had a slightly more powerful IGP, if I am not mistaken.

Now, to find a good board with 8 memory slots and we are all set

 

[zir_blazer]

I don't get the point of getting the 1220. It's a more expensive i5-4570 with no gpu. It has 8MB cache, but that's the only upside of it. I would assume the reason the 4770 is better than the 4570 is not just higher clock but also because it has HT. The 1220 doesn't have HT. The 1230 does (Thus it's a 100mhz slower 4770 but for $50 less). You could get a 1240 which is the same clock speed. I'll probably do that since it's only $10. I don't think 8MB cache and 100-200mhz clock increase is going to be the only thing that gives that 10-33% increase in speed from a 4670
to 4770. I would assume HT is the real reason.

The Xeon E3 1220 is just 10 U$Ds more expensive and brings you 2 MB Cache L3. And you said that you didn't wanted the iGPU due the extra TDP (Besides that TDP is NOT exact power consumption, surely that if you disable the GPU on a model that got it you would get around the same power consumption numbers), its seems to be a good option for you.
The Xeon E3 1230 is just 10 U$Ds less expensive than the 1240, that is 100 MHz faster. 10 U$Ds for the next bin seems justified. Add another 10 U$D and you got the 1245 with the iGPU. The only thing that the 1230 does is being the cheapest 4C/8T, but for just 10 U$D you may as well skip it for the next.

 

[Pilum]

Cpu-world.com says that the Haswell Xeons (specifically E3 1245v3 in my case) dont support FMA3 or F16C instructions while the 4770 does. But I can't find this anywhere else that says this.

My questions are:
1) Is this true? I can't find anywhere else that backs this up.
2) Is it that big a deal? I mainly do some gaming, video transcoding, and I compile quite bit of stuff thanks to school.

1) According to the data sheets, the E3s v3 support AVX 2.0, and this seems to include FMA (for the purpose of these documents and the Intel Ark; you can implement AVX2 without FMA).
2.) No, for your needs only the integer part of AVX2 will be important (video transcoding), and that's certainly supported.

 

[zir_blazer]

Cpu-world.com says that the Haswell Xeons (specifically E3 1245v3 in my case) dont support FMA3 or F16C instructions while the 4770 does. But I can't find this anywhere else that says this.

My questions are:
1) Is this true? I can't find anywhere else that backs this up.
2) Is it that big a deal? I mainly do some gaming, video transcoding, and I compile quite bit of stuff thanks to school.

From CPU World Xeon V3 launch article:

Feature-wise, majority of Xeon E3 microprocessors have 4 CPU cores, 8 MB L3 cache, Turbo Boost and Hyper-Threading technologies, the latest AVX2 and FMA3 instructions, and support for DDR3-1600 ECC memory.

I'm sure CPU World missed them. I don't see any reason for these to be disabled on Xeons.

 

[McCrow]

And what's about the chipet ? what one should I consider with a Xeon E3 ?

I've seen that there's refresh haswell Xeon coming. I've seen at Alternate .de the Xeon E3-1231 V3 at 212€ (209 for the 1230 and 247€for the 1240 ) the refresh seems to gain 100Mhz 3,4 as the 1240 ...

I'm asking myself about any hidden differencies.