Any reason DVDs aren't cartridged?

[grant2]

One might think that after 15 years of people scratching the hell out of their CDs, standards makers would have called for a protective cartridge when designing the DVD standard(s)... aka, minidisc.

Is there any technical reason DVDs could not be cartridged? Or is it just so people will have to pay to replace them more often?

 

[dejitaru]

A cart would cost more than the DVD media itself and would be friggin huge. Also, wouldn't companies want you to scratch your disc so you can buy a new one?
CD-style media has been around for years and years, and only a few have used cartridges. It just isn't practical to coddle your media when you can have a bit more freedom.
A cartridge drive would cost more - so many moving parts.

 

[Shalmanese]

Well, if you had cartridged DVD's, you wouldn't be able to play CD's on your DVD player. One of the main reasons why so many computers have DVD drives while the amount of DVD programs could probably be counted on 1 hand is the fact that the drive is only ~ $5 more expensive than a CD Drive so theres not much point NOT getting one.

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: Shalmanese
Well, if you had cartridged DVD's, you wouldn't be able to play CD's on your DVD player. One of the main reasons why so many computers have DVD drives while the amount of DVD programs could probably be counted on 1 hand is the fact that the drive is only ~ $5 more expensive than a CD Drive so theres not much point NOT getting one.

That is pure HOGWASH.

I have a DVD-RAM drive that uses cartridges for the dvd-ram media. I can play cds, dvds, and dvd-ram media in the drive. Each dvd-ram disk is in a cartridge but cds and regular dvds don't have a cartridge and can be used in the drive.

I like being able to be rough with my dvd-ram media and not have to worry about it.

 

[Shalmanese]

I dont quite comprehend how you do this. Does it have 2 seperate slots for DVD RAM and CD, or is it a different cartridge from what I am thinking of. I was thinking of the minidisc style carts.

 

[Ipno]

Long ago we called them CD Caddys.

Few reasons why they aren't used much:

- As has been mentioned, the cost of a CD/DvD would be much greater if you had to enclose each one inside the caddy. CDs/DVDs fly off presses like hotcakes. Just look at the cost of floppy disks, different media I know but much much cheaper to buy a CDR than a floppy these days.

- It is a lot easier to store a bunch of CDs than it is to store a bunch of cartriges. I haul about 100 CDs/DvDs with me when I go somewhere (never know when you're gonna need 'em. ) They fit in their handy dandy case and don't weigh a lot, pretty easy to tote. If they were all cartriges it'd be a bit more bulky. I guess that would depend mostly on the cartrige design, but the old CD caddys were pretty bulky. Either way, its easier to store them as disks.

- CDs and DVDs protected by a cartrige wouldn't create that neato rainbow effect when you hold them in the light just right, and that would make the world sad.

 

[Shalmanese]

Oh, your talking about teh old fashioned caddies. I dont see how they would do anything to prevent scratching. After all, if there in the caddy, there most likely going to be in the drive where they wont get scratched.

I was thinking something along the lines of Blu-Ray.

 

[spidey07]

Isn't is also a consumer issue?

We just don't WANT caddy's.

 

[techfuzz]

It would also be a pain in the a$$ to remove the caddy from the DVD player, remove the DVD from the caddy, flip the DVD over, reinsert DVD in caddy, reinsert caddy into DVD player just to watch the second half of a movie on a double sided DVD. We want things to remain as easy as possible and adding those extra steps in there isn't what people want. DOWN WITH THE CADDY!

techfuzz

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: techfuzz
It would also be a pain in the a$$ to remove the caddy from the DVD player, remove the DVD from the caddy, flip the DVD over, reinsert DVD in caddy, reinsert caddy into DVD player just to watch the second half of a movie on a double sided DVD. We want things to remain as easy as possible and adding those extra steps in there isn't what people want. DOWN WITH THE CADDY!

techfuzz

Umm most dvds are not double sided. Yes some old ones are but that is NOT an issue anymore.

I have some pictures showing how my dvd-ram drives handles all types of media. The dvd-ram media is in a caddy but is not removeable from the caddy. To get the media out of the caddy I would have to break it. My dvd-ram drive is a caddy less system(doesn't require a caddy to read media) but requires the dvd-ram media to be in a caddy to write to it. If I remove the media from it's caddy it basically write protects it. That is another thing nice about dvd-ram media. I can write-protect my media.

Here is the gallery.

My pictures

Back in the day I bought a 1x cd-writer that used a caddy for everything. Now that IS a pain in the ass but having media already in a caddy is a non-issue because it makes everything nicer. I would never own a drive again that requires me to open and close a caddy for everything.

 

[dakels]

IIRC the Mac G4 DVD-RAM systems used a caddy but could accept normal CD's by plaing them into a caddy.

Also, why is it that minidisc media can hold just as much music as a full size CD? Is it a higher density or is the recorded music at a lower bit rate? I find minidisc's very handy and protected by that little case means that little wafer of a minisdisc won't be a baby coaster.

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: dakels
IIRC the Mac G4 DVD-RAM systems used a caddy but could accept normal CD's by plaing them into a caddy.

Also, why is it that minidisc media can hold just as much music as a full size CD? Is it a higher density or is the recorded music at a lower bit rate? I find minidisc's very handy and protected by that little case means that little wafer of a minisdisc won't be a baby coaster.

Minidiscs use a compression method similar to mp3s to store the music. It compresses them just enough that they can fit the same amount of music as a regular cd.

 

[dakels]

aah thanks for the info. Hmm... and yet CD players have only started coming out with MP3 CD-R reading capabilties. Then again it makes sense not to promote that. Why would anyone nowadays burn a normal 60-80 minute CD-R now when you can have thousands of minutes in MP3 format. This means alot of lost CD/CD-R revenue.

 

[grant2]

Originally posted by: dakels
aah thanks for the info. Hmm... and yet CD players have only started coming out with MP3 CD-R reading capabilties. Then again it makes sense not to promote that. Why would anyone nowadays burn a normal 60-80 minute CD-R now when you can have thousands of minutes in MP3 format. This means alot of lost CD/CD-R revenue.

you answered your own question, "yet CD players have only started coming out with MP3 CD-R reading capabilities"

Let's see, I could spend $30 to burn 100 regular CDs, or save $27 and burn just 10 mp3 CDs... but then I have to spend $250 replacing my car stereo and $200 replacing my portable cd players.

easy choice for me

 

[blahblah99]

Actually there was an attempt to make cartridged CDs years back, but it never gained popularity. It's sort of like a 12-disc cartridge, but for single discs.

 

[dakels]

I still have an internal Sony 5 disc cartridge drive (you load 5 normal CD's into a cartridge then insert into drive) in one of my old unused Pentium 90 . Too bad it's only like 1-2x read speed otherwise it's great. I'd love to have a new jukebox for fast MP3 coversions or multipe disc copies where I can just walk away. Only problem is that current jukebox models are for large network applications and cost a dam fortune. Come to think of it, if I can find a current XP driver or something, I will put it into my new machine. It's still a very cool device with functionality. Good for games too that only need CD verification. I hate having to insert the CD everytime I play a game just for it's CD check.

 

[everman]

I would certainly like the option to use a cartige for very important disks with sensitive data. Then I wouldn't have to worry at all about it getting damaged.

 

[majewski9]

DVD ram uses a catridge. If you are going to use the drive for nothing other than data a DVD-ram could be the way to go.

 

[ReiAyanami]

just use a disc resurfacing kit, they cost like $30 or less

 

[dejitaru]

aah thanks for the info. Hmm... and yet CD players have only started coming out with MP3 CD-R reading capabilties. Then again it makes sense not to promote that. Why would anyone nowadays burn a normal 60-80 minute CD-R now when you can have thousands of minutes in MP3 format. This means alot of lost CD/CD-R revenue.

MPEGs sound like crap.

just use a disc resurfacing kit, they cost like $30 or less

Yes! Exactly.

 

[grant2]

Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
just use a disc resurfacing kit, they cost like $30 or less

a) polishiing discs is a pain in the ass
b) no amount of polishing can fix some scratches
c) no amount of polishing can replace a chipped reflective layer

then again, if you're willing to pay $30 for an overpriced "resurfacing kit" i dunno where your heads are at

 

[CallTheFBI]

I think the real solution is for DVD and CD manufacturers to coat the discs with a scratch resistant or even scratch proof material. I've always wondered why they haven't done this. It seems obvious to me.

 

[Codewiz]

Originally posted by: CallTheFBI
I think the real solution is for DVD and CD manufacturers to coat the discs with a scratch resistant or even scratch proof material. I've always wondered why they haven't done this. It seems obvious to me.

They make some amount of money from people have to repurchase items because of it. Why would they want to take away those revenues.

 

[Lonyo]

It's called using CD cases, and carefully placing the CD is a case when you take it out of the drive

 

[CallTheFBI]

Originally posted by: Codewiz

Originally posted by: CallTheFBI
I think the real solution is for DVD and CD manufacturers to coat the discs with a scratch resistant or even scratch proof material. I've always wondered why they haven't done this. It seems obvious to me.

They make some amount of money from people have to repurchase items because of it. Why would they want to take away those revenues.

There are shops that will repair scratched discs for $10 - $15 each. I would go to one of those shops instead of repurchasing a $50 game or a $20 DVD and I am pretty sure the actual manufacturers don't get any piece of that action.