Any really effective surge protectors?

[GoodEnough]

The current normally comes in from hot, exits from neutral. Frame normally carries no current.

The frame is also connected to neutral/ground just in case the hot wire accidentally shorts to the frame. Then, the frame can shunt the short circuit current to neutral (ground) instead of passing the current through a person touching the frame and then to the ground.

Ok, so if the hot wire gets disconnected and starts touching the frame, the person could get shocked. Instead, the frame is connected to ground, so the current is diverted back to the outlet ground.

However, in this scenario, the frame is still "carrying" current, so won't the person still get shocked as the current is going through the frame on it's way to ground?

 

[bud--]

Ok, so if the hot wire gets disconnected and starts touching the frame, the person could get shocked. Instead, the frame is connected to ground, so the current is diverted back to the outlet ground.

However, in this scenario, the frame is still "carrying" current, so won't the person still get shocked as the current is going through the frame on it's way to ground?

If you had a solid short from hot to *ground* at the device, there would be 60V drop on the hot wire and 60V drop on the ground wire. The *ground* at the device would be at 60V with respect the building ground. That would last milliseconds until the breaker tripped.

One of the major functions of the ground wire is to trip breakers, as above. That happens because of the N-G bond at services (as in a Modelworks post). The current to trip the breaker flows on the ground wire to the service, through the N-G bond, and back to the utility transformer on the neutral wire. The earth connection is not effective since the resistance of the earth path is far too high. The earth connection keeps the system ground at about earth potential. The N-G bond keeps the power wires at a reasonable potential with respect to earth.

The only appliances I know of that had the appliance ground connected to the neutral were dryers and stoves. There were major limits on how those branch circuit were wired. This was apparently safe, as the practice was allowed by the NEC from about WW2 (copper shortage) until maybe 15 years ago. Existing circuits are explicitly grandfathered (new appliances on those circuits are connected with N and G wired together). These were 120/240V circuits, 3 wires, hot, hot, neutral.

 

[bud--]

Connecting a frame to a neutral wire was legal only in some jurisdictions.

It was allowed by the NEC for about 50 years and existing circuits are explicitly grandfathered.

Essential to surge protection is a short (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to single point earth ground.

Still not explained - airplanes regularly get hit by lightning. Are they crashing? Do they drag an earthing chain? Is it only 10 feet long?

And repeating for the 5th time - the IEEE surge guide explains plug-in protectors do not work primarily by earthing a surge. They work by limiting the voltage between all wires (power and signal) to the ground at the protector. The guide explains that earthing occurs elsewhere in the system.

Both the IEEE and NIST surge guides say plug-in protectors are effective.

Necessary for human safety is the wall receptacle safety ground only wired to a breaker box 'bus bar' ground. And not connected to earth.

The receptacle ground wire is connected to earth via the service earthing system.

 

[keyser fluffy]

lightning rod? and a decent retail surge protector.

End scene.

 

[Roger007]

Hi guys,
I live in Malaysia where Thuderstorms/Electrical Storms are frequent and extremely severe. Like what has been mentioned several times in this forum, I too have been looking for effective Surge Protection Devices for my home appliances.

I've been doing some Google-ing recently and came across this website which I found very informative & interesting. They claim to have found the solution to lightning problems, by using some soft of patented technology - which you can read about here (http://cal-lab.com/index.php?act=why-different).

They also explain how to be safe from lightning which I find useful & helpful especially since I'm from a region where lightning is very prevalent. The following excerpt below is taken from another link: http://cal-lab.com/index.php?act=safe-from-lightning. I don't know if you can get their products in the USA, but apparently they've sold more than 1Million products in Malaysia already.

I've recently purchased a couple of their Lightning Isolators (as they call it) to test them out, and so far (for the past 2 months or so), everything seems to be working fine. So, if it works for me, no harm sharing right? Good luck!

[Excerpt - Start]
How to identify PoDs?

PoDs** (or Points of Danger) are items or situations that can induce or carry lightning-dangers!

Some examples below:
The power-line, telephone-line – from far away installations;
The Satellite-cable, TV-antenna-cable – local installations;
Local EARTH or GROUNDING wires – stop believing that an EARTH-wire is a safety-link! It can carry induced lightning surges to kill someone, indoors, if you are unlucky to be at the wrong place at the wrong time!
The window-grill, water-tap, shower-bath, kitchen appliances – they can pick up lightning surges discharged nearby!
Plugging & un-plugging or touching any of the PoDs can be a dangerous practice!

**No one knows when these PoDs are dangerous since it is hard to know when there might be lightning discharges, nearby or far away!

Facts & Statistics you should know!

3-things you should stop believing:
Stop believing that you (& loved-ones) are safe indoors – lightning has a way of creeping into your house. Remember PoDs? A Malaysian woman in Port Dickson was killed in 2006 while touching her refrigerator, when lightning struck.

Stop believing that INSURANCE is a solution to dangers from lightning – install Lightning Isolators that have been proven to work and your loved ones at home may have a better chance to survive a powerful lightning discharge near your home! This INSURANCE-practice started from Europe & USA where 80% of lightning strikes are mild and a 50-year-old technology is sufficient! When this old technology fails, INSURANCE is used to compensate. Every body thought no better arrangement could be had! Are you happy with this technology to keep equipment & users safe?

Stop believing that equipment & users cannot be safe from powerful induced lightning strikes, anyhow – this used to be true (with lightning arrestors & surge-protectors that attempt to ARREST a powerful strike with old technologies) but no more! CLLI does not attempt to ARREST but detect, absorb & ISOLATE. That’s why Lightning Isolators are different!
After having sold nearly 1,000,000 units of CLLI since 1995, CAL-LAB still claims to have recorded no equipment-damage where CLLI were certified to have been correctly installed!

[Excerpt - End]

 

[westom]

They also explain how to be safe from lightning which I find useful & helpful especially since I'm from a region where lightning is very prevalent. The following excerpt below is taken from another link: http://cal-lab.com/index.php?act=safe-from-lightning.

If any device can absorb a surge, then we routinely capture lightning to power appliances. Over 100 years of science says nothing can absorb or stop a destructive surge. Why does your citation say otherwise? Why do we not power appliances from captured lightning?

Where does your citation make every claim with numbers? No numbers is how scams get promoted.

Protection means energy does not enter a building. Why is a really, proven by over 100 years of experience and science, no longer true? Energy is absorbed harmlessly in earth. OR a surge is inside hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Reality does not change because subjective myths were invented.

From your citation: "CLLI ... absorb & ISOLATE." Good. Show me how its 2 centimeter parts stops what three kilometers of sky cannot. Show me how its (near zero) hundreds of joules will make hundreds of thousands of joules magically disappear? If that citation was honest, you will post answers with numbers from that citation.

Why did Saddam have WMDs? Even history teaches how to quickly identify scams. Numbers said otherwise. A majority even ignore that lesson from history. The most naive will quickly believe subjective claims. Never demand the always required hard facts. Not demand numbers.

A well proven solution (for over 100 years) was defined previously. Is found in every facility that must suffer direct lightning strikes without damage. And costs less money. Your telco's Central Office (CO) will suffer about 100 surges with each thunderstorm. How often is your town without phone service for four days? Learn why one earthed protector meant protection from all surges - for over 100 years. Learn why more responsible companies sell these well proven products that cost you tens or 100 times less money.

If any of those products claim effective protection, then you have quoted protection from each type of surge with numbers provided by that manufacturer. Where are those numbers? Learn why facilities that never suffer damage use protectors from more responsible companies. Always connect a protector as short as possible ('low impedance') to single point earth ground. And divert money to where less money does so much more - upgrade the earthing.

Low impedance. Another critical number ignored to promote mythical protection. Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate. Always. Without damage to a protector even after a direct lightning strike. Because a protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Because protection was never found in anything that magically (subjectively) stops, isolates, and absorbs surges.

Where are its numbers? How do its centimeter parts stop what three kilometers of sky could not? Damning question. An answer provided by numbers from the citation. Where is each number? Why are we not powering appliances from captured lightning? What that manufacturer claims (subjectively) is not possible.

 

[bud--]

From your citation: "CLLI ... absorb & ISOLATE." Good. Show me how its 2 centimeter parts stops what three kilometers of sky cannot.

Does weston know how the cal-lab device is supposed to work? Contrary to marketing hype it is not by absorbing a surge.

The patent shows essentially a conventional plug-in protector with added elements that short across power (or signal) wires when the current to the protected device is 'too high'. By shorting the wires you greatly reduce the energy absorbed in the device.

The energy absorbed at a plug-in device, as I have written several times, is small to start with. I don't see the shorting elements (if they work as the hype says) as a great advance in protection.

The patent also shows series fuses which open as a result of the shorting element. I agree with westom on this one. The fuses won't open during a surge because a surge is far too short an event. They may protect against a long event like crossed power wires (or more likely they may not safely open on the high voltage).

IMHO the cal-labs device is not a major advance in protection and I wouldn't use one.

Because a protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

Still not explained - airplanes regularly get hit by lightning. Are they crashing? Do they drag an earthing chain? Is it only 10 feet long?

 

[Mark R]

If any device can absorb a surge, then we routinely capture lightning to power appliances. Over 100 years of science says nothing can absorb or stop a destructive surge. Why does your citation say otherwise? Why do we not power appliances from captured lightning?

Where are its numbers? How do its centimeter parts stop what three kilometers of sky could not? Damning question. An answer provided by numbers from the citation. Where is each number? Why are we not powering appliances from captured lightning? What that manufacturer claims (subjectively) is not possible.

I can't comment on the quality of the linked product - as you rightly say, there is a serious lack of data on it.

However, lightning protection is well understood, and effective products are readily available from industrial electrical suppliers. (Industrial electrical, computer and electronic equipment is very expensive and sensitive to surges. High quality protection is a pretty big business; when someone is buying a surge protector for $10 million of servers, they will usually pay an expert in surge protection to tell them what to get).

Due to the way in which lightning is formed, there is a limit to the energy, and the surge current. Something like 99% of all lightning strikes drive a current of 100 kA or less, with a maximum current duration of 0.35 ms. A surge protection device capable of diverting 100 kA, for the entire duration of a lightning discharge (0.35 ms), will therefore achieve 99% protection against a direct lightning strike. Such a device does not have to be large - they can be built the same size as a pair of electrical panel circuit breakers.

As to how a "centimeter" device can stop kilometers of sky, the answer is that it doesn't. You can't "stop" a lightning discharge from entering your wiring. However, you can direct it away from sensitive equipment. The protection device is some kind of "switch" which detects the lightning pulse (these are not mechanical switches, but "spark gaps". When a high-voltage pulse occurs, it sparks between two electrodes. The spark turns the air into a highly conducting plasma, completing the circuit between the two electrodes, the surge flows through this plasma, and into the ground electrode) and directs it towards a good connection to ground.

 

[Roger007]

I can't comment on the quality of the linked product - as you rightly say, there is a serious lack of data on it.

However, lightning protection is well understood, and effective products are readily available from industrial electrical suppliers. (Industrial electrical, computer and electronic equipment is very expensive and sensitive to surges. High quality protection is a pretty big business; when someone is buying a surge protector for $10 million of servers, they will usually pay an expert in surge protection to tell them what to get).

Due to the way in which lightning is formed, there is a limit to the energy, and the surge current. Something like 99% of all lightning strikes drive a current of 100 kA or less, with a maximum current duration of 0.35 ms. A surge protection device capable of diverting 100 kA, for the entire duration of a lightning discharge (0.35 ms), will therefore achieve 99% protection against a direct lightning strike. Such a device does not have to be large - they can be built the same size as a pair of electrical panel circuit breakers.

As to how a "centimeter" device can stop kilometers of sky, the answer is that it doesn't. You can't "stop" a lightning discharge from entering your wiring. However, you can direct it away from sensitive equipment. The protection device is some kind of "switch" which detects the lightning pulse (these are not mechanical switches, but "spark gaps". When a high-voltage pulse occurs, it sparks between two electrodes. The spark turns the air into a highly conducting plasma, completing the circuit between the two electrodes, the surge flows through this plasma, and into the ground electrode) and directs it towards a good connection to ground.

Hi Mark R

I see you are reasonable in answering. Like me (I thought I could help by first taking the trouble to read from their website), you and another member seem to have read before posting.

This gives me courage to further post what I have further discovered from this company's website, which seem to provide the needed answers:

Quote:
(from FAQ - http://cal-lab.com/index.php?act=faq )

4. How does CAL-LAB manage to succeed in making equipment & equipment user safe from a powerful lightning strike?

- CAL-LAB Lightning Isolators or CLLI do not employ components to arrest the powerful lightning discharge BUT intentionally (cleverly) trigger some components to become open-circuit (or OC) in order to create an air-gap that increases the resistance (which results in higher concentration of heat that eventually creates a wider air-gap according to the duration & magnitude of the lightning or surge).

- From the moment a surge is detected until it ends, the detection-circuit of a CLLI activates 2-vital factors for a successful protection-device: one is the ISOLATION section (mentioned above) and the other is the HOLD-DOWN section with KEY-components that will almost never fail to maintain a low voltage-tolerance (to GROUND & to equipment).

- Only IF the second section fails will your equipment's KEY-components be compromised (which has not occurred after selling 1,000,000 CLLI, since 1995, when installations were correctly done)!

I have also found this page useful: http://cal-lab.com/index.php?act=clli-vs-common

 

[bud--]

Hi Mark R

I see you are reasonable in answering. Like me (I thought I could help by first taking the trouble to read from their website), you and another member seem to have read before posting.

This gives me courage to further post what I have further discovered from this company's website, which seem to provide the needed answers:

Quote:
(from FAQ - http://cal-lab.com/index.php?act=faq )

4. How does CAL-LAB manage to succeed in making equipment & equipment user safe from a powerful lightning strike?

- CAL-LAB Lightning Isolators or CLLI do not employ components to arrest the powerful lightning discharge BUT intentionally (cleverly) trigger some components to become open-circuit (or OC) in order to create an air-gap that increases the resistance (which results in higher concentration of heat that eventually creates a wider air-gap according to the duration & magnitude of the lightning or surge).

This certainly sounds like a fuse. The patent for the device says the isolation elements are fuses. A surge from lightning is a very short duration event - maybe 100 microseconds. A fuse will not open anywhere near that fast. IMHO a fuse is bogus protection.

If a fuse is opening on a voltage higher than for which the fuse is rated the fuse can disappear, along with adjacent parts. Opening during a surge could put thousands of volts across the fuse.

- From the moment a surge is detected until it ends, the detection-circuit of a CLLI activates 2-vital factors for a successful protection-device: one is the ISOLATION section (mentioned above) and the other is the HOLD-DOWN section with KEY-components that will almost never fail to maintain a low voltage-tolerance (to GROUND & to equipment).

For power wires to "ground" the patent shows a MOV, the same as in about every other plug-in surge protector.

=2-vital factors=
One is fuses, covered above.

The other, for power wires, is an SCR which is triggered across the line when the current to the protected device is 'too high'. The idea is that a short across the power wires will dissipate close to zero energy. I see at least a couple problems:
- A SCR, shown in the patent, conducts only in one direction. Are surges of only one polarity?
- IMHO triggering on high voltage is better than high current. The voltage of a surge rises very fast - maybe 10 microseconds. By the time you trigger on high current is there already damage?

I don't see any reason to believe the cal-labs device is an improvement over conventional surge protectors. The device patent shows voltage limiting MOVs, like conventional surge protectors. I am not convinced that they don't provide the protection.

This link, by the way, has wrong information in addition to the hype.

- Only IF the second section fails will your equipment's KEY-components be compromised (which has not occurred after selling 1,000,000 CLLI, since 1995, when installations were correctly done)!

I have also found this page useful: http://cal-lab.com/index.php?act=clli-vs-common

Not impressed with this one either. It either doesn't understand or misrepresents how conventional surge protectors work.

And the =Safe Islands= cli-labs claims are exactly what conventional multiport surge protectors create.

Europe has standards for equipment and the US has both standards and testing (UL) to see the products meet those standards. Does Malaysia have anything equivalent? Do the cal-labs devices claim to meet some outside standard or are they tested by an outside agency?

 

[Mark R]

I don't have much to add to what bud-- said.

A fuse won't do anything against a surge. Surges are too fast, and the high voltages and high currents are likely to conduct through most fuses, unless carefully designed. Electronic devices can be fried in microseconds, fuses take miliseconds at the very fastest.

When a fuse blows, if the current is too high, or the voltage too high, the melting metal will ionise and turn into a conductive plasma; current will continue to flow for a time.

It really does sound as if these devices offer protection via their MOVs (same as any other surge protector).

 

[Roger007]

I don't have much to add to what bud-- said.

A fuse won't do anything against a surge. Surges are too fast, and the high voltages and high currents are likely to conduct through most fuses, unless carefully designed. Electronic devices can be fried in microseconds, fuses take miliseconds at the very fastest.

When a fuse blows, if the current is too high, or the voltage too high, the melting metal will ionise and turn into a conductive plasma; current will continue to flow for a time.

It really does sound as if these devices offer protection via their MOVs (same as any other surge protector).

I called CAL-LAB and they had these to say to my queries:

"If CLLI were like any other Surge protectors, why don't they rely/use Insurance like other Surge protectors do?

"Why would one of Malaysia's leading highway operators switch from using a high-priced surge protector, to CLLI for their CCTV surveillance system, which has brought savings of approx RM300,000 (they used to spend approx RM300,000 a year on equipment-damage-replacement before switching to CLLI)? Now, they spend on average of RM3,000 on damaged replacement CLLIs only!"

"Show us one case of equipment-damage, where installation has been CERTIFIED to have been correctly done, and we will stop saying - "No equipment-damage after selling 1,000,000 units, where installations were CERTIFIED to have been correctly done!"

They also said, "We mean what we say - every word!"

 

[Mark R]

"Show us one case of equipment-damage, where installation has been CERTIFIED to have been correctly done, and we will stop saying - "No equipment-damage after selling 1,000,000 units, where installations were CERTIFIED to have been correctly done!"

They also said, "We mean what we say - every word!"

The CERTIFIED is the point.

A properly designed surge protector will provide excellent protection - but only if correctly installed with appropriate consideration to equi-potential zones (called the "safe zone" by cal-labs) and protection of signal cables.

Incorrectly connecting any surge protector can completely prevent its protection. What is different about the cal-labs product is that they go to great lengths to explain its connection and how to use it. Something, that other manufacturers often don't do.

 

[westom]

When a fuse blows, if the current is too high, or the voltage too high, the melting metal will ionise and turn into a conductive plasma; current will continue to flow for a time.

It is a basic concept taught in a first EE course. Lightning is a current source. That means voltage will increase as necessary to maintain current flow. For lightning, that is typically 20,000 amps. Which means thousands of volts easily blow through anything that might 'isolate'.

A protector foolishly claims "to become open-circuit (or OC) in order to create an air-gap that increases the resistance". Anyone can see through that obvious myth. For over 100 years, that has never worked. But a protector adjacent to electronics will do the impossible? Of course. They 'certify' it. With no consequences. Anyone can certify that no car will hit them. Honest answers, instead, always come with proven facts and the numbers. A fundamental difference between honesty and certify.

Somehow a millimeter gap will stop what 3 kilometers of sky could not? They 'certified' that myth? If a Cal-Lab isolator works by going open circuit, well reality: it conducts a surge through that gap and into nearby appliances. Over 100 years of well proven science.

Honesty explains how a microseconds surge is stopped by a device that takes milliseconds to react.

Protection was well defined and proven by over 100 years science and experience. Same concepts, even demonstrated by Franklin in 1752, are why electronics atop the Empire State Building are struck 23 times annually without damage. They also never foolishly try to stop or isolate a surge.

Telcos all over the world do not use those scam protectors. Instead, telcos use devices with numbers that claim protection. Telcos ignore arbitrary claims by advertising because honest facts always mean spec numbers. Subjective claims even proved Saddam had WMDs. We even learn this from history.

Two relevant concepts are equipotential and conductivity. Where are Cal-Lab numbers that discuss either? Never happens.

Where does Cal-Lab dissipate hundreds of thousands of joules? Honesty and numbers would harm sales.

Well proven products connect hundreds of thousands of joules, low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meters'), to single point earth ground. Conductivity and equipotential. Energy not inside a building does not cause damage. A telco's $multi-million dollar computer, connected to overhead wires all over town, is threatened by about 100 surges per thunderstorm. And no damage. Because every surge is harmlessly conducted to and dissipates outside the building. Superior protection already inside every appliance is not overwhelmed when energy dissipates harmlessly outside. Equipotential and conductivity (low impedance) was understood even 100 years ago.

Scams are half-truths promoted without numbers. An advertising technique (subjective claims) that even proved cigarette smoking increased health. A majority believed that 1950s advertising. So many got angry in 1964 when facts with numbers said cigarettes kill. The most easily scammed will only believe advertising myths. Not demand numbers. Get angry rather than admit to being scammed. Where are Cal-Lab’s engineering numbers? An honest poster will either provide those numbers or admit no such numbers exist. One will post more disparaging attacks to avoid posting such numbers.

How many volts is its isolation? It claims to work by going open circuit. So where are those numbers? Where do hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate? How does a millisecond device somehow blocks a surge that completes in microseconds? Every number is known to by every reader IF the manufacturer was honest. Numbers that must be in following posts if Cal-Lab really *certified* protection. It will somehow stop what three kilometers of sky could not? What do they ‘certify’ without consequences? Advertising scams are that profitable.

 

[Roger007]

It is a basic concept taught in a first EE course. Lightning is a current source. That means voltage will increase as necessary to maintain current flow. For lightning, that is typically 20,000 amps. Which means thousands of volts easily blow through anything that might 'isolate'.

A protector foolishly claims "to become open-circuit (or OC) in order to create an air-gap that increases the resistance". Anyone can see through that obvious myth. For over 100 years, that has never worked. But a protector adjacent to electronics will do the impossible? Of course. They 'certify' it. With no consequences. Anyone can certify that no car will hit them. Honest answers, instead, always come with proven facts and the numbers. A fundamental difference between honesty and certify.

Somehow a millimeter gap will stop what 3 kilometers of sky could not? They 'certified' that myth? If a Cal-Lab isolator works by going open circuit, well reality: it conducts a surge through that gap and into nearby appliances. Over 100 years of well proven science.

Honesty explains how a microseconds surge is stopped by a device that takes milliseconds to react.

Protection was well defined and proven by over 100 years science and experience. Same concepts, even demonstrated by Franklin in 1752, are why electronics atop the Empire State Building are struck 23 times annually without damage. They also never foolishly try to stop or isolate a surge.

Telcos all over the world do not use those scam protectors. Instead, telcos use devices with numbers that claim protection. Telcos ignore arbitrary claims by advertising because honest facts always mean spec numbers. Subjective claims even proved Saddam had WMDs. We even learn this from history.

Two relevant concepts are equipotential and conductivity. Where are Cal-Lab numbers that discuss either? Never happens.

Where does Cal-Lab dissipate hundreds of thousands of joules? Honesty and numbers would harm sales.

Well proven products connect hundreds of thousands of joules, low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meters'), to single point earth ground. Conductivity and equipotential. Energy not inside a building does not cause damage. A telco's $multi-million dollar computer, connected to overhead wires all over town, is threatened by about 100 surges per thunderstorm. And no damage. Because every surge is harmlessly conducted to and dissipates outside the building. Superior protection already inside every appliance is not overwhelmed when energy dissipates harmlessly outside. Equipotential and conductivity (low impedance) was understood even 100 years ago.

Scams are half-truths promoted without numbers. An advertising technique (subjective claims) that even proved cigarette smoking increased health. A majority believed that 1950s advertising. So many got angry in 1964 when facts with numbers said cigarettes kill. The most easily scammed will only believe advertising myths. Not demand numbers. Get angry rather than admit to being scammed. Where are Cal-Lab’s engineering numbers? An honest poster will either provide those numbers or admit no such numbers exist. One will post more disparaging attacks to avoid posting such numbers.

How many volts is its isolation? It claims to work by going open circuit. So where are those numbers? Where do hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate? How does a millisecond device somehow blocks a surge that completes in microseconds? Every number is known to by every reader IF the manufacturer was honest. Numbers that must be in following posts if Cal-Lab really *certified* protection. It will somehow stop what three kilometers of sky could not? What do they ‘certify’ without consequences? Advertising scams are that profitable.

As a result of my talking to them, CAL-LAB's inventor has added this page as if to respond to this forum's comments:
http://cal-lab.com/index.php?act=my-reflections9

Some concern has been brought to our attention over whether this is astroturfing for Cal-Lab.

You yourself admit you're in Malaysia, the same location as the company, so this of course looks suspicious. Coupled with the fact that all 4 posts on our forums are about Cal-Lab only makes that look worse.

I can't conclusively prove that you either are or are not related to Cal-Labs, so I'd encourage you to tread lightly. We're all for insightful discussions here, but we won't hesitate to ban anyone we think is astroturfing. If you are here to astroturf, then I do believe you're done here.

-Thanks
ViRGE

 

[westom]

As a result of my talking to them, CAL-LAB's inventor has added this page as if to respond to this forum's comments:

It says

CLLI is designed to trigger only designated weak-links to be burnt, keeping key components intact, so as to isolate equipment & users from dangers!

Nothing isolates or stops surges. Will a centimeter gap stop what 3 miles of sky could not? That is what Cal-Lab's claims. Subjective claims are best called a scam.

The NIST says this on page 17:

A very important point to keep in mind is that your surge protector will work by diverting the surges to ground. The best surge protection in the world can be useless if grounding is not done properly.

Cal-Labs will not even discuss earth ground. Somehow a gap that takes milliseconds to burn out will stop was is done in microsecond? Absolute nonsense - also called advertising.

Where are the always required numbers? Always avoid spec numbers when marketing a scam. They are not marketing to informed consumers.

Cal-Lab's also say:

Ordinary Lightning-arrestors or Surge-protectors try to arrest the full power of lightning – resulting in key arresting-components themselves being burnt and let through dangerous forces to equipment & user!

As the NIST says, any protector that does that (ie plug-in type) is "useless". Well proven solutions mean energy is not even inside the building.

Well proven solutions are defined by numbers. One 'whole house' protector to protect everything for about $1 per appliance starts at 50,000 amps. So that even direct lightning strikes (typically 20,000 amps) burn out nothing. So that the informed homeowner never even knew a surge existed. Any protector with "burnt weak-links" is called protector failure. Only grossly undersized protectors have 'burnt' parts. Well proven solutions remains functional for decades - no burnt out links.

 

[bud--]

As a result of my talking to them, CAL-LAB's inventor has added this page as if to respond to this forum's comments:
http://cal-lab.com/index.php?act=my-reflections9

To look at only one point - Mark R and westom and I all agree that the isolation feature is way too slow to have any effect on a surge. Surges from lightning are over in less than 100 microseconds. The surge is over before a fuse type device can start to melt. The new cal-labs piece ignores this minor problem, which was a major argument in this thread for why the cal-labs device does not protect the way they say it does. The new cal-labs piece is cow-dung.

Cal-Lab's also say: Quote: Ordinary Lightning-arrestors or Surge-protectors try to arrest the full power of lightning – resulting in key arresting-components themselves being burnt and let through dangerous forces to equipment & user!

As the NIST says, any protector that does that (ie plug-in type) is "useless". Well proven solutions mean energy is not even inside the building.

Cal-labs doesn't understand (or lies about) how plug-in protectors work. They do not work by absorbing a surge - a genuinely stupid idea.

But that is how westom thinks they work too. (The IEEE surge guide explains how they work starting page 30.)

What does the NIST surge guide actually say about plug-in protectors?
They are "the easiest solution".
And "one effective solution is to have the consumer install" a multiport plug-in protector

Both the IEEE and NIST surge guides say plug-in protectors are effective.

One 'whole house' protector to protect everything

A service panel protector is a real good idea.
But repeating from the NIST surge guide:
"Q - Will a surge protector installed at the service entrance be sufficient for the whole house?
A - There are two answers to than question: Yes for one-link appliances [electronic equipment], No for two-link appliances [equipment connected to power AND phone or cable or....]. Since most homes today have some kind of two-link appliances, the prudent answer to the question would be NO - but that does not mean that a surge protector installed at the service entrance is useless."