Any plumbers in the house? (Propress stuff)...

[redgtxdi]

So I replaced an old pressure reducevalve at front of house. (Cash acme changed thread so had to cut/replace a lot). Propress buddy did work and all was good except 1 joint.

1” soft copper and old crusty side sealed well. Brand spanking new side did not. If Propress is so great how did this happen?
Is Propress not good with soft copper?

 

[Micrornd]

It is designed to work with soft copper up to 1-1/4".
Maybe he didn't get it clean enough, maybe since it was inwhat appears to be a curve it had a flat spot, maybe the coupling had some bit of trash in it, who know?
Press it again and if it doesn't fix it, cut it out and replace it.
S*** happens to the best.

 

[redgtxdi]

So you think repressing Propress is acceptable? (You Propress?). I helped ensure this connection was very clean and the new pipe side was....well....new. (Shrug)
And now the plan is to cut back to a SCH40 tie in that splits sprinklers from in line and he wants to replace the SCH40 with SCH80. But we’ll still have to Propress another fitting again which has me worried this time. (I know Propress is not new new but I still feel uneasy about it if it leaked in this case)

 

[Greenman]

Is there some reason you don't want to sweat a fitting?

 

[redgtxdi]

Is there some reason you don't want to sweat a fitting?

I'd actually be all for it...(It's what I know has worked for...well as long as I've been alive) but this particular person works for a large municipality and swears pro press is the way to go.

The city main bleeds a bit even when fully closed which poses a problem when trying to solder.....(Propress overcomes this problem)....I think I still trust soldering over propress.....despite its praises but maybe I'm just old-school.

Also....my buddy's specialty is in water systems contamination & propress also touts being a very clean system when compared to traditional soldering.....thus his bias.

 

[Greenman]

He could be right about all of it. I've never used the system, so I can't offer any advice.

 

[Micrornd]

The reason I suggested repressing is sometimes (depending on the tool used, remember there are cheaper tools out there than the Viega OEM stuff) the users don't get a full press and release early.
And no I don't use ProPress on a regular basis, but we have used it in the past, and don't use it presently on a company basis.
Personally, at home I use SharkBites.
Soldering a fitting on (as Greenman said) is the best option.

If the city shutoff leaks, complain and have it fixed, it's their responsibility to fix it.
There is no earthly reason to replace Sch40 with Sch80 in this instance. 80 is thicker wall, higher pressure rating, and slightly different chemical resistance, none of which you need here.
And with the proper glue, PVC can be glued with some water leakage running through it, as long as you don't allow it to build pressure until the glue has cured.

 

[Greenman]

The reason I suggested repressing is sometimes (depending on the tool used, remember there are cheaper tools out there than the Viega OEM stuff) the users don't get a full press and release early.
And no I don't use ProPress on a regular basis, but we have used it in the past, and don't use it presently on a company basis.
Personally, at home I use SharkBites.
Soldering a fitting on (as Greenman said) is the best option.

If the city shutoff leaks, complain and have it fixed, it's their responsibility to fix it.
There is no earthly reason to replace Sch40 with Sch80 in this instance. 80 is thicker wall, higher pressure rating, and slightly different chemical resistance, none of which you need here.
And with the proper glue, PVC can be glued with some water leakage running through it, as long as you don't allow it to build pressure until the glue has cured.

Red Hot Blue Glue. Sometimes it works,

 

[Micrornd]

Red Hot Blue Glue. Sometimes it works,

It always works, if done properly.
Plus there are different glued (than sold in the big box store or even to the public) that set in 2-3 sec. or even up to 30min.
It's all temp related (as much as moisture) that's how you can glue at 20F or 120F and be successful.
But those are on a pro level and really need training classes.
I've spent over 40yrs working with plastic piping from 1/8" to 48", with chemical, thermal and mechanical joining (they make over 130" dia now, but that's outside my scope)

 

[Greenman]

It always works, if done properly.
Plus there are different glued (than sold in the big box store or even to the public) that set in 2-3 sec. or even up to 30min.
It's all temp related (as much as moisture) that's how you can glue at 20F or 120F and be successful.
But those are on a pro level and really need training classes.
I've spent over 40yrs working with plastic piping from 1/8" to 48", with chemical, thermal and mechanical joining (they make over 130" dia now, but that's outside my scope)

The simple reality is that I'm stuck with whatever is available at the local plumbing supply, and never deal with anything over 4". The only time I have to deal with PVC is when we break a sprinkler pipe, and then we're generally in a mud pit trying to bail out enough water to make a connection. Likely the reason my results haven't been all that great.
Bottom line for me is that PVC is for landscapers.

 

[NutBucket]

I've noticed recent plumbing jobs done at the office have used propress. I suppose if the union pros are using it...must be OK? I don't have the right tools so I'll stick to a torch + solder or a Sharkbite if I have to.

 

[Greenman]

I've noticed recent plumbing jobs done at the office have used propress. I suppose if the union pros are using it...must be OK? I don't have the right tools so I'll stick to a torch + solder or a Sharkbite if I have to.

It appears to be a solid system. I don't like it because it because it's an O ring seal, the same with sharkbite fittings. Sharkbite also has the added bonus of extremely high cost.

 

[Hans Gruber]

I am not a plumber but I have a torch and I am getting pretty good at sweating copper. I also have some experience with push to connect fittings aka. Sharkbite. That looks like a solder job. The rule for push to connect fittings, if you can see it you can use it. If you have pipes behind walls or underground, don't use sharkbite fittings. If it leaks you will have to dig it up. Obviously your risk for pipes underground is less than interior plumbing.

The other problem is you wanted to use sharkbite. It has to be straight to work and the copper appears to have a bend on the left side. This could lead to a leak or a bad connection. Soldering is the way to go. Whatever way you go, make sure you deburr your pipes on the ends.

 

[Micrornd]

I've noticed recent plumbing jobs done at the office have used propress. I suppose if the union pros are using it...must be OK? I don't have the right tools so I'll stick to a torch + solder or a Sharkbite if I have to.

The reason is that it is faster and requires much less skill than soldering, not that it is better. You don't have to worry about setting things on fire in tight locations, it takes about 10 mins to train a monkey or millennial to use it, and anyone can pull a trigger.

 

[Micrornd]

It appears to be a solid system. I don't like it because it because it's an O ring seal, the same with sharkbite fittings. Sharkbite also has the added bonus of extremely high cost.

When you see "SharkBite", think "Xerox". 😉 There are lots of competitors and some with double O'rings.

 

[Micrornd]

The simple reality is that I'm stuck with whatever is available at the local plumbing supply, and never deal with anything over 4". The only time I have to deal with PVC is when we break a sprinkler pipe, and then we're generally in a mud pit trying to bail out enough water to make a connection. Likely the reason my results haven't been all that great.
Bottom line for me is that PVC is for landscapers.

Don't they use PVC40 for potable and reclaimed water in Cali?
Do they use "funny" pipe for sprinklers in Cali (the glue-able corrugated/flexible black poly)?
Sprinklers should only have "standing" water in them, we keep a small sump pump and 1000w small (one hand) generator for that (and the "new" guy to dig it out, since it's usually him that hit it anyway 😉).
White bread will usually stop a "trickle" of water long enough to even use regular PVC glue, much less blue, (both with primer) just be sure you can flush the bread out (faucet, mechanical joint, etc.).
Or glue "running" water with heavy blue with a down stream exit point open (faucet, mechanical joint, etc.).
And there is always compression couplings and compression expansion joints you can put on regardless of flow (if you're prepared to get wet).

 

[NutBucket]

It appears to be a solid system. I don't like it because it because it's an O ring seal, the same with sharkbite fittings. Sharkbite also has the added bonus of extremely high cost.

I only use Sharkbites when dealing with PEX or if I can't get the water to stop flowing enough to use solder. It's a real bitch when you figure out the stop at the meter doesn't full shut off!

 

[Red Squirrel]

I'm not a plumber, but why would the pressure regulator be underground? That sounds like a pain. Here they tend to be inside the house after the main inside valve. That way you don't need to get the city involved if you need to work on it, and don't need to dig up the line.

Overall there seems to be way too much things going on with that line underground. Ideally you want a straight shoot with no joints or couplings coming straight from the city valve. Less chance of any failure that way. Also CPVC is not really rated for high pressure systems like water supply, that whole setup looks terrible tbh. Also it's a good idea to use conductive material for a water supply line as if ever it freezes you can run high current through it to try to warm it up.

 

[Greenman]

Don't they use PVC40 for potable and reclaimed water in Cali?
Do they use "funny" pipe for sprinklers in Cali (the glue-able corrugated/flexible black poly)?
Sprinklers should only have "standing" water in them, we keep a small sump pump and 1000w small (one hand) generator for that (and the "new" guy to dig it out, since it's usually him that hit it anyway 😉).
White bread will usually stop a "trickle" of water long enough to even use regular PVC glue, much less blue, (both with primer) just be sure you can flush the bread out (faucet, mechanical joint, etc.).
Or glue "running" water with heavy blue with a down stream exit point open (faucet, mechanical joint, etc.).
And there is always compression couplings and compression expansion joints you can put on regardless of flow (if you're prepared to get wet).

I honestly don't know what they use for sprinklers here in the land of fruits and nuts. Everything I work on is old, and additions don't require sprinklers unless we add more than 50% of the existing footage. Potable water is copper or pex. I've only started using pex in the last couple years, I don't much like it, but the system if proven and it's a lot cheaper than copper. If there is money in the budget, copper with sweated fittings is the way to go. Failures are exceptionally rare, and a good copper job is a thing of beauty.

 

[Greenman]

I only use Sharkbites when dealing with PEX or if I can't get the water to stop flowing enough to use solder. It's a real bitch when you figure out the stop at the meter doesn't full shut off!

I hear you. I've used sharkbites out of necessity a couple of times, though never in an inaccessible location.

 

[Micrornd]

Also CPVC is not really rated for high pressure systems like water supply, that whole setup looks terrible tbh. Also it's a good idea to use conductive material for a water supply line as if ever it freezes you can run high current through it to try to warm it up.

CPVC was designed and formulated for water supply systems and it virtually all cases is pressure rated higher than the equivalent size PVC40. CPVC came into existance to better handle the higher temperature of domestic hot water supplies (compared to PVC40) and even as well as copper.
(BTW - all that plastic in the picture is PVC40, not CPVC)

In almost all cases below the Canada/US border, running high current through piping to defrost it has been outlawed or legislated illegal because of the danger involved. (Except for municipal utilities and then the safety regs, construction costs, and liability insurance required eliminate many of those).

Is using current to defrost piping still legal, on a residential level, up in the Great Beyond? 😱

 

[Greenman]

I don't know that I could even buy CPVC around here. The only place I've ever seen it used is for condensate lines.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Yeah CPVC is only really for condensate drains and that's the only place I've seen it used. I've accidentally broken some with my bear hands. It gets brittle. I would never trust it for high pressure applications such as water supply. Using high current is pretty safe to defrost lines, the voltage is very low so you can't actually get a shock. I don't think they get it red hot or anything, just need to get it above freezing and let it sit for a while and the ice eventually melts. We had one year where frozen pipes was a huge issue and the city could not keep up as the equipment to do it was tied up. People had to put snow in pots and melt it to get water lol. I think it was one of those years where we did not get much snow so the frost went deeper.

 

[drnickriviera]

I honestly don't know what they use for sprinklers here in the land of fruits and nuts. Everything I work on is old, and additions don't require sprinklers unless we add more than 50% of the existing footage. Potable water is copper or pex. I've only started using pex in the last couple years, I don't much like it, but the system if proven and it's a lot cheaper than copper. If there is money in the budget, copper with sweated fittings is the way to go. Failures are exceptionally rare, and a good copper job is a thing of beauty.

Any particular reason you don't like PEX? I have to use it here as the water makes pin hole leaks in copper.

 

[Greenman]

Any particular reason you don't like PEX? I have to use it here as the water makes pin hole leaks in copper.

Pex has crossed the line into the realm of proven materials, but it looks cheesy. That's the only reason I don't like it. I do like the low cost, and the ease of installation, but it just doesn't have that high end look.