Any other good CPU's out there besides those from Intel and AMD?

[thestain]

Just looking for alternatives..

Anyone else desire to have a "personal" computer and not a "possessed" computer?

The Power of Microsoft and the Trusted (Module )Platform Alliance has gotten so strong, that if we don't vote with our pocketbooks otherwise.. the day of your really buying a PC will be over, because, the tranfer of title, of ownership will simply not come with a purchase.. the big companies will retain interest and control.. and in a way through technology they will dwell in your PC... possessing it.. and keeping you from enjoying the full benefits of ownership.

So.. anyone know of some good alternative CPU manufacturers?

The Stain

 

[swtethan]

PowerPC

lol

 

[TuxDave]

Originally posted by: thestain
... keeping you from enjoying the full benefits of ownership....

Can you please clarify? I'm not familiar with what you're talking about.

 

[dmens]

we need a tinfoil hat... stat!

care to explain how exactly how the CPU is possessed? and i want concrete examples, not some fluffy what-ifs.

 

[bobsmith1492]

As far as I know, if you want, you can straight-up buy an Intel or AMD processor, build a board for it yourself, and program it yourself straight-up using x86 (or whatever they are) assembly instructions (you might have to figure out how to make machine code out of that but I'm sure there's software somewhere for that). In other words, you could make full use of a CPU without anything else from Intel or AMD. Also, once you buy the chip, it's YOURS. You can run over it with your car if you want; Intel has no claim on it, except possibly to avoid reverse-engineering-copying of their technology which would be a patent violation of some sort.

EDIT: Oh, and I think you need to read your sig; it's good.

"Don't let others choose the issue or the question. Think Critically."

 

[imported_Questar]

Anyone else desire to have a "personal" computer and not a "possessed" computer?

This is the fourth thread you have started on the same subject.

Why?

Anyway, CPU's don't have TPM, motherboards do.

 

[alex123]

You dont need a "special" CPU in order to retain complete control of your PC. Just do not install DRM-friendly OS. Do not install Windows Vista, stick with Windows XP or Windows 2000.

DRM - Digital Rights Management. I would rather learn Linux or write my own OS in assembler language then installing DRM system on my computer.

And who the hell needs Windows Vista anyways? They say it is "secure", yeah baby. Like do I care

 

[TheTeacher]

Speaking of DRM. I go to watch a flippin DVD on my computer (I don't have a DVD player I use the PC) and it says cannot play DVD while TV Out is enabled. HOW THE FRICK AM I SUPPOSED TO WATCH THE DAMN DVD THEN JACKASSES!!!

*EDIT*
Just to clarify, I watch the DVD on the TV from the computer. Hmmm... 22" CRT or 36" Hi def TV. I choose bigger in this case.

There. I vented. BTW What the hell are you talking about?

LOL

 

[customcoms]

Possessed CPU's-are you nuts? Intel and AMD have waaaaaaaay too much to deal with without trying to enable some way to take control of everyones pc's. Microsoft, on the other hand, could enable that feature at the drop of a hat. Thats who you should avoid...microsoft...the evil empire who is trying to force DRM on us (like it matters...it'll be cracked in a matter of days, if not hours).

BTW, Mac used to make computers using PowerPC technology if you want to get rid of all your x86 based stuff (I think this is a troll personally).

 

[thestain]

Ok.. No alternative cpu's is gist I am getting..

In reference to the microsoft led embedded controls in cpus, intel has done this.. with the Pentium D's.. and this is embedded in Conroe..

AMD has had a very small amount of hardware related to DRM for a couple years, but fully put the Modules into the cpus with AM2. Presidio, etc.. this is DRM, this is Trusted Module.. it is in AM2 and it is in Conroe..

And... you can go to Microsofts web page to learn more about it.. it is kind of out in the open.. hardware engineers are being trained on it.. etc.. old news..

so.. what CPU's can we buy?

My interest,.. low power ones.. like maybe old Pentium 3, Celerons, Via.. semprons..

I want to use one for a firewall pc.. and maybe on more medium to high performance pc.. using soon to be extinct socket 939

Like Steve Jobs said.. PC wars were fought.. and Microsoft won a long time ago... Microsoft just keeps solidifying their control and hardware makers can choose to sign on with the embedded platforms Microsoft and the U.S. Gov't want.. or they can decline.. but when you turn down Microsoft.. their are going to be costs.

I got into this because.. I was concerned about issues.. like ... "you cannot play DVD, with tV out enabled... come on... this is bs.

The Stain

 

[avi85]

Originally posted by: thestain
I got into this because.. I was concerned about issues.. like ... "you cannot play DVD, with tV out enabled... come on... this is bs.

The Stain

I agree, what's the point of an HTPC if you can't watch a DVD on your TV

 

[ND40oz]

The TPM is on the motherboard, not in the CPU. Here's some light reading for you.

If you don't want an Intel or AMD, then go with a VIA.

 

[Furen]

Transmeta Crusoe of Efficeon... AMD Efficeon that is, lol.

 

[TanisHalfElven]

some links to read before ppl start blabbering about stuff the don't have the least bit idea about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_computing
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html

ok for those who do not read the links here is the important points.

One of the fundamental premises behind trusted computing is that the owner cannot be trusted.[3] It is assumed that the user will?through negligence or willful intent?attempt to compromise their own system. For example, an IT administrator could not ensure that notebook computers are running a specified operating system.

Secure I/O

Secure input and output (I/O) refers to a protected path between the computer user and the software with which they believe they are interacting. On current computer systems there are many ways for malicious software to intercept data as it travels between a user and a software process - for example keyboard loggers and screen-scrapers. Secure I/O reflects a hardware and software protected and verified channel, using checksums to verify that the software used to do the I/O has not been tampered with. Malicious software injecting itself in this path could be identified.

Although protecting against software attacks, Secure I/O doesn't assist in protection against hardware-based attack such as a key capture device physically inserted between the user's keyboard and the computer.
[edit]

Memory curtaining

Memory curtaining extends the current memory protection techniques to provide full isolation of sensitive areas of memory ? for example locations containing cryptographic keys. Even the operating system doesn't have full access to curtained memory, so the information would be secure from an intruder who took control of the OS.
[edit]

Sealed storage

Sealed storage protects private information by allowing it to be encrypted using a key derived from the software and hardware being used. This means the data can be read only by the same combination of software and hardware. For example, users who keep a private diary on their computer do not want other programs or other computers to be able to read it. Currently, a virus can search for the diary, read it, and send it to someone else. The Sircam virus did something similar to this. Even if the diary were protected by a password, the virus might run a dictionary attack. Alternately the virus might modify the user's diary software to have it leak the text once he unlocked his or her diary. Using sealed storage, the diary is securely encrypted so that only the unmodified diary program on his or her computer can read it.
[edit]

Remote attestation

Remote attestation allows changes to the user's computer to be detected by him and others. That way, he can avoid having private information sent to or important commands sent from a compromised or insecure computer. It works by having the hardware generate a certificate stating what software is currently running. The user can present this certificate to a remote party to show that their computer hasn't been tampered with.

Remote attestation is usually combined with public-key encryption so that the information sent can only be read by the programs that presented and requested the attestation, and not by an eavesdropper.

To take the diary example again, the user's diary software could send the diary to other machines, but only if they could attest that they were running a secure copy of the diary software. Combined with the other technologies, this provides a more secured path for the diary: secure I/O protects it as it is entered on the keyboard and displayed on the screen, memory curtaining protects it as it is being worked on, sealed storage protects it when saved to the hard drive, and remote attestation protects it from unauthorized software even when it is used on other computers.

The Cambridge cryptographer Ross Anderson has great concerns that "TC can support remote censorship [...] In general, digital objects created using TC systems remain under the control of their creators, rather than under the control of the person who owns the machine on which they happen to be stored (as at present) [...] So someone who writes a paper that a court decides is defamatory can be compelled to censor it ? and the software company that wrote the word processor could be ordered to do the deletion if she refuses. Given such possibilities, we can expect TC to be used to suppress everything from pornography to writings that criticise political leaders." He goes on to state that:

"[...] software suppliers can make it much harder for you to switch to their competitors' products. At a simple level, Word could encrypt all your documents using keys that only Microsoft products have access to; this would mean that you could only read them using Microsoft products, not with any competing word processor."

"The [...] most important benefit for Microsoft is that TC will dramatically increase the costs of switching away from Microsoft products (such as Office) to rival products (such as OpenOffice). For example, a law firm that wants to change from Office to OpenOffice right now merely has to install the software, train the staff and convert their existing files. In five years' time, once they have received TC-protected documents from perhaps a thousand different clients, they would have to get permission (in the form of signed digital certificates) from each of these clients in order to migrate their files to a new platform. The law firm won't in practice want to do this, so they will be much more tightly locked in, which will enable Microsoft to hike its prices."

A user who wanted to switch to a competing diary program might find that it would be impossible for that new program to read the old diary, as the information would be "locked in" to the old program. It could also make it impossible for the user to read or modify his or her diary except as specifically permitted by the diary software. If he or she were using diary software with no edit or delete option then it could be impossible to change or delete previous entries.

Trusted computing can be used for DRM. An example could be downloading a music file from a band: the band's record company could come up with rules for how the band's music can be used. For example, they might want the user to play the file only three times a day without paying additional money. Also, they could use remote attestation to only send their music to a music player that enforces their rules: sealed storage would prevent the user from opening the file with another player that did not enforce the restrictions. Memory curtaining would prevent the user from making an unrestricted copy of the file while it's playing, and secure output would prevent capturing what is sent to the sound system.

One commonly stated criticism of Trusted Computing, is that sealed storage could prevent them from moving sealed files to the new computer. This limitation might exist either through poor software design or deliberate limitations placed by content creators. The migration section of the TPM specification requires that it be impossible to move certain kinds of files except to a computer with the identical make and model of security chip. If an old model of chip is no longer produced it becomes impossible to move the data to a new machine at all; the data is forced to die along with the old computer.

Moreover, critics are concerned that TPM is technically capable of forcing spyware onto users, with e.g. music files only enabled on machines that attest to informing an artist or record company every time the song is played. In a similar vein, a news magazine could require that to download their news articles, a user's machine would need to attest to using a specific reader. The mandated reader software could then be programmed not to allow viewing of original news stories to which changes had been made on the magazine's website. Such "newest version" enforcement would allow the magazine to "rewrite history" by changing or deleting articles. Even if a user saved the original article on his or her computer, the software might refuse to view it once a change had been announced.

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: customcoms
Possessed CPU's-are you nuts? Intel and AMD have waaaaaaaay too much to deal with without trying to enable some way to take control of everyones pc's. Microsoft, on the other hand, could enable that feature at the drop of a hat. Thats who you should avoid...microsoft...the evil empire who is trying to force DRM on us (like it matters...it'll be cracked in a matter of days, if not hours).

BTW, Mac used to make computers using PowerPC technology if you want to get rid of all your x86 based stuff (I think this is a troll personally).

Macs have had DRM for years, don't think switching to PowerPC will help unless you just get the microprocessor and directly interface with it. (ie, not a mac, but an embedded application)

You could also go for Via's CPUs, but they're slow, expensive, and may also have DRM.

I got into this because.. I was concerned about issues.. like ... "you cannot play DVD, with tV out enabled... come on... this is bs.

You don't seem to understand what the DRM will do. If you have it, you will be able to play the DVDs and what not, if you don't, then the software will just refuse to run. It's an unneccesary required hardware device. If you want to continue using new software, you'll need to upgrade to DRM hardware eventually, or be stuck in the year 2004.

 

[thestain]

well... any cpu suggestions.. and please.. if you really don't know if LaGrande or Presidio, etc.. have Trusted elements embedded.. get a nice strong cup of sthu.. before posting oK?

The goal is to have these platforms in various components, in the cpu, in the gpu, on the motherboard, in your monitor or hdtv.. etc.!

So.. back to my question.. including pre-pentium d.. for Intel.. and pre am2 for amd and pre current via's.. etc.. what are some good cpus without these devices?

Also.. anyone have luck building a firewall pc with old cpu.. looking for one that runs cool and does not burn up much energy..

Thanks

The Stain

 

[Fox5]

Originally posted by: thestain
well... any cpu suggestions.. and please.. if you really don't know if LaGrande or Presidio, etc.. have Trusted elements embedded.. get a nice strong cup of sthu.. before posting oK?

The goal is to have these platforms in various components, in the cpu, in the gpu, on the motherboard, in your monitor or hdtv.. etc.!

So.. back to my question.. including pre-pentium d.. for Intel.. and pre am2 for amd and pre current via's.. etc.. what are some good cpus without these devices?

Also.. anyone have luck building a firewall pc with old cpu.. looking for one that runs cool and does not burn up much energy..

Thanks

The Stain

Well, if you're just looking at pre-AM2, why not build an overclocked socket 939 system? That should be good to go in performance for at least a few more years and won't have the DRM stuff.

As for a firewall PC, there are lots of low power options (even assuming fanless). You could go for an ultra low voltage Pentium M or Core Duo. You could use one of VIA's chips. You could go for a higher end Geode. You could take a currently existing Athlon XP-M or Sempron (even a desktop one as long as it's 754) and then underclock it.