umbrella39
Lifer
Not a fan. She is Palin's antithesis. Both extreme opposites are equally as bad for this country and should be nowhere near positions of power. Not because of their genders, but because of their politics.
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Any other Democrats here who can't stand Nancy Pelosi?
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Muse
Lifer
Point 1): The Dems vote was a lot higher than the Reps, and it was the Reps administration that proposed the "bailout." So, it appears that Pelosi should be congratulated on that score! She took heat for that, as if she was responsible for the Reps ditching the vote. But look, the one they did pass was a lot better, so why the crying over that spilt milk?
2): As left as they come, she is NOT! Nowhere near. She's from S.F., which is bluer than CA in general, which is pretty blue, so that's why she has that reputation. She's actually very centrist compared to real leftist factions in this country.
3): She's as pathetic as George Bush because what? She couldn't pry the country out of Bush's war? WTF.
Muse
Lifer
And what would the grounds for impeachment be? Impeachment always seems to be on the table after a damning revelation. The missing WMD? We are knee deep in doodoo. A big hoopla over impeachment proceedings would be one more diversion. Look at the stupid circus the Reps stirred up over Clinton lieing about his marital fidelities. Sheesh.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07...ekinreview/01word.html
THE unsealing by the C.I.A last week of the documents it called its ?family jewels? was an only-in-America moment. A secret intelligence service freely admitted its crimes and blunders. Americans were reminded of a piece of living history: the time in the 1960s and 1970s when presidents turned the spying powers of American intelligence on the United States itself, searching for an enemy within.
As the ?family jewels? make clear, this web of intrigue began in the Kennedy White House.
You're absolutely ridiculous. The speech before the bailout vote is a shining example. But you support her, and, based on your previous posts, I'm sure you've committed yourself to that support 100% and would go to the grave with it, so there's no sense in engaging you in time consuming discussion on the matter. Of course, this is where you write off my opinion of you because you "don't care" and tell me I'd engage in it if I had any real leg to stand on. Then I say "think what you want", shrug my shoulders, and we each go about our lives.
I just figured I'd get it all out of the way in one post instead of three.
RightIsWrong
Diamond Member
I'm not a Dem (registered Ind. for almost 2 decades) although I am very socially liberal and I think that she has been pretty horrible.
Eskimospy, you are being a homer and dismissing very valid criticism against her.
1. Impeachment -- it should NEVER be "off the table". If a public official breaks the law or does things in such an unethical manner, you should have all things at your disposal.
2. Iraq -- She campaigned that she would do everything in their power to bring the troops home. After a couple of weak attempts, she ran with her tail between her legs whining about how powerless they were against Bush's veto power. Hogwash. She could have sent the exact same bill with timelines over and over and force his hand as funding was running out to commit to some sort of time table. She failed miserably.
3. Bailout -- although it eventually passed the House, it was more because of the effect of the Senate passing it putting pressure on the Reps than her leadership inspiring her colleagues.
4. Ethics reform -- sure they passed a bill addressing some of the issues, but they left enough loopholes to keep them comfortably safe even while doing unethical things (family members on campaign payrolls for example)
5. FISA -- retroactive immunity for companies that knowingly and willingly ran roughshod over the rights of American citizens? Puh-lease. That bill should have never made it out of committee with that stipulation in it and it certainly never should have passed a vote if the leadership of both parties were anywhere in the same area code with doing their sworn duties of upholding the Constitution.
Eskimospy, you are being a homer and dismissing very valid criticism against her.
1. Impeachment -- it should NEVER be "off the table". If a public official breaks the law or does things in such an unethical manner, you should have all things at your disposal.
2. Iraq -- She campaigned that she would do everything in their power to bring the troops home. After a couple of weak attempts, she ran with her tail between her legs whining about how powerless they were against Bush's veto power. Hogwash. She could have sent the exact same bill with timelines over and over and force his hand as funding was running out to commit to some sort of time table. She failed miserably.
3. Bailout -- although it eventually passed the House, it was more because of the effect of the Senate passing it putting pressure on the Reps than her leadership inspiring her colleagues.
4. Ethics reform -- sure they passed a bill addressing some of the issues, but they left enough loopholes to keep them comfortably safe even while doing unethical things (family members on campaign payrolls for example)
5. FISA -- retroactive immunity for companies that knowingly and willingly ran roughshod over the rights of American citizens? Puh-lease. That bill should have never made it out of committee with that stipulation in it and it certainly never should have passed a vote if the leadership of both parties were anywhere in the same area code with doing their sworn duties of upholding the Constitution.
Yeah, because pointing out that nobody seems to be able to cite any evidence to back up their claims must equal supporting someone to my grave. You are giving a partisan speech (that did nothing to affect the final vote according to the actual House Republicans voting on it) as your example for her being the epitome of divisive politics? Every Speaker in history gives partisan speeches, many of them far worse than anything Pelosi has ever given. This seems more like evidence for the fact that you don't know what the Speaker of the House does than evidence of her epic divisiveness.
Does your post mean that you have no evidence to back up your claim? Any independant analysis of Pelosi being one of the 'worst in history', or particularly divisive compared to her predecessors? Surely it must take more than making a speech that made someone sad to be the most divisive in America's 230-odd years.
retrospooty
Platinum Member
COunt me in as a dem, and lib that hatesd Pelosi. She gives us all a bad name and makes it harder to win elections.
I would agree that FISA is a knock against her. Not only did they give in to the administrations lawlessness, but they did so when it wasn't necessary. Very valid criticism. As far as ethics reform goes, I already mentioned that the ethics reform was half-hearted, but by any objective measure this Congress has certainly been an improvement. So, take that as you will.
Your other two examples are crap though I'm afraid. Impeachment was never going to happen no matter what. Impeaching GWB (when there's no way he would have been convicted) would have in fact made her an incredibly divisive speaker, for no real gain. She simply said out loud what everyone already knew. If you want to blame her for that, well... okay.
As I already said before, Pelosi acted in the best interests of our country on Iraq. The lives of our troops are not something to play a game of legislative chicken with. If GWB and the Congressional Republicans were unwilling to be adults, I am glad that Pelosi and Reid were not willing to take us off that cliff that would have lead to chaos. Yes, it sucks. It was the adult thing to do though and I can recognize that.
EDIT: It seems to me that most of the criticism present in this thread comes from people that haven't paid much attention to how Congress works until recently. If you don't like Pelosi, you probably would hate every other speaker we've ever had. Seems a bit silly to me.
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