Any opinions on this HT setup?

[Descartes]

I recently approached a local company that specializes in higher-end HT (so it seems) installations to do something for my home. I received a quote recently, and I was a little flabbergasted at the price. Many of these things look unnecessary, but I'm hoping you all can help me with that.

FWIW, I know I could do most of this myself and save a little money. I'd do that if I had the time to research, source equipment, etc. but I have too many other projects going on at the moment.

So, this is what they quoted me:

1) Marantz DV3002 DVD Player for $219.99
2) Marantz SR-5001 Receiver for $699.99
3) 4 Speakercraft AIM8Three 8" in-ceiling speakers for $1650

Now, I'm sure some will object to the in-ceiling speakers, but for this room there's little option. It's a large open area that's great for entertaining, but there is already wiring in the ceiling. I'm looking for good quality sound with a seamless look. I'm not going for HT enthusiast audiophile quality just yet, but from what I've found I should get nice results with these speakers.

4) B&W LCR60 S3 center speaker for $350
5) B&W ASW600 sub for $500
6) Universal Remote MX-850 for $399.95. This seemed crazy to me. Do I really need such a thing?
7) Infrared repeater kit for $250. Again, why? 98% of the time I'll be in/near the room.

The following items seemed extraordinarily expensive to me. I've seen cables recommended in this forum elsewhere for significantly cheaper.

8) RG59 cable for video and sub runs for $46.00
9) Tributaries DCVT 2 meter HDMI cable for $340.00
10) Tributaries DCV 2 meter component video cable for $200.00
11) Tributaries DCAO 2 meter digital audio cable for $75.00
12) Sanus VPML3 tilting flat panel mount for $249.99. This will be for my 50" Panasonic plasma
13) Panamax M4300EX Surge Protector for $249.99. Necessary?

So, that's essentially it. They're charging for installation, etc. of course. Any thoughts about what they're recommended? I know it's a tall order, but any feedback you can offer is much appreciated.

UPDATE 1:

So, I mounted the plasma over the weekend (crappy mobile picture again, sorry). It was an easy job. I ran the HDMI cables through the wall and into the media cabinets. Everything looks nice and clean.

I've now decided to just go ahead and do everything myself. Installing the speakers won't be a tough job since the cable is already there, so it's just a matter of getting the equipment and getting it all setup.

That brings me to my question. I'm going to stick with the Speakercraft AIM8 Three for front and rear, the B&W LCR60 S3 center and ASW600 sub. My questions are as follows:

1) Are there any center speakers comparable to the B&W LCR60 S3 but smaller in size? This is the main room in my house, and I'd rather not have any bulky speakers lying around. I'm going for form and function with this install.

2) My HT guy had recommended the Marantz SR-5001. Any other recommendations? I'd like something to interface with my iPod if possible. Also, he said that this particular receiver can listen to the acoustics of the room through a microphone and alter the timing of the playback through the speakers? This might be a normal feature, but if it is I haven't heard about it until recently.

I think that's about it for the time being. I'll lower my overall investment from ~$6k+ to more like $3k for speakers, installation, etc. Quite the savings.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

If nothing else, make sure you don't pay that much for your cables. A place like Monoprice will have much cheaper cables that should work equally well for a fraction of the price.

You don't need a $400 remote. You can get something like a harmony that will work very well for much cheaper.

You should go out and listen to speakers before you decide what you want. Sound choice is a much more personal thing than a lot of other choices and it's important to get something that appeals to you.

How much are they charging for installation?

 

[Deudalus]

6) Universal Remote MX-850 for $399.95. This seemed crazy to me. Do I really need such a thing?
7) Infrared repeater kit for $250. Again, why? 98% of the time I'll be in/near the room.
8) RG59 cable for video and sub runs for $46.00
9) Tributaries DCVT 2 meter HDMI cable for $340.00
10) Tributaries DCV 2 meter component video cable for $200.00
11) Tributaries DCAO 2 meter digital audio cable for $75.00
13) Panamax M4300EX Surge Protector for $249.99. Necessary?

These are all unnecessary, you will need all this stuff minus the remote but you don't need to pay a 500% markup for them, but herein lies the problem........

They make their cash by selling cables which are overpriced as hell. If you refuse to buy any cabling from them they are going to be less inclined to do the install heh.

But yah, go through monoprice.com very good stuff for very cheap.

 

[Descartes]

Thanks to the both of you. I'll talk to them about the cabling and see what they say.

YoYo, they're charging about ~$1100 for the installation and $250 for "programming." That also seemed a bit high to me, but there will be a fair amount of labor involved.

 

[montypythizzle]

6 foot component cable for 200 dollars....

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

So if I did my math right, that's about $6600 total including the labor?

I think that's roughly what I spent on my own HT excluding the display (of course I didn't pay anything for installation).

As far as programming goes, it's pretty darn easy to get a harmony remote set up with the web interface, so that should be something you should be able to do on your own. Auto calibration has come a long way for receivers and there are some pretty solid choices for ones that will take care of most settings on their own.

Besides the speaker installation and the plasma mounting, the rest of the setup shouldn't be too bad.

I haven't had to deal with HT installation guys before, but the closest I've come to it is a friend who had his theater set up and the guys did a pretty crappy job of setting things up. (Receiver set to Prologic for DVDs, center channel behind a non-acoustically transparent front projection screen, etc.)

I know that there are good installers and bad ones out there. I just get kind of worried seeing setup fees of over $1000 for a system like this.

Do you have any friends that are into this sort of stuff?

I went over to HomeBrewerDude's house and helped him set up his HT system including calibration of the sound and the TV and I charged a lot less than $1100

 

[Deudalus]

Just tell them this.........

You want them to:

1) Set up the in ceiling speakers
2) Run speaker wires for everything (which you will provide if they decide to be asshats and charge too much)
3) From there you will set up your receiver and your remotes

I, or some other person on here I'm sure, would be happy to help you with whatever setup questions you have on the phone for free rather than pay some guy 1000 bucks for 30 minutes work of doing the same thing.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
So if I did my math right, that's about $6600 total including the labor

Yep, that's it before taxes.

I think that's roughly what I spent on my own HT excluding the display (of course I didn't pay anything for installation).

As far as programming goes, it's pretty darn easy to get a harmony remote set up with the web interface, so that should be something you should be able to do on your own. Auto calibration has come a long way for receivers and there are some pretty solid choices for ones that will take care of most settings on their own.

Besides the speaker installation and the plasma mounting, the rest of the setup shouldn't be too bad.

I haven't had to deal with HT installation guys before, but the closest I've come to it is a friend who had his theater set up and the guys did a pretty crappy job of setting things up. (Receiver set to Prologic for DVDs, center channel behind a non-acoustically transparent front projection screen, etc.)

I know that there are good installers and bad ones out there. I just get kind of worried seeing setup fees of over $1000 for a system like this.

Do you have any friends that are into this sort of stuff?

I went over to HomeBrewerDude's house and helped him set up his HT system including calibration of the sound and the TV and I charged a lot less than $1100

None of my friends are really into it, no. Several friends have plasmas, etc. but know about as little as I do. I don't know anyone I'd really trust to do the installation work.

You might be on to something though. Maybe I can find someone through one of the various forums available and ask them to do it. I could probably get hosed that way too. Ahh!

The other benefit of having these guys do it is that they warranty the work. You've given me some things to consider though, so I appreciate it.

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Deudalus
Just tell them this.........

You want them to:

1) Set up the in ceiling speakers
2) Run speaker wires for everything (which you will provide if they decide to be asshats and charge too much)
3) From there you will set up your receiver and your remotes

I, or some other person on here I'm sure, would be happy to help you with whatever setup questions you have on the phone for free rather than pay some guy 1000 bucks for 30 minutes work of doing the same thing.

Actually, the ceiling is already wired for everything. That's largely the reason I'm choosing to do in-ceiling speakers since the room was practically designed around the idea.

I think I'll try this approach and see how much of a cost reduction it gets me. I'll let you guys know.

Thanks again to everyone.

 

[montypythizzle]

Originally posted by: Deudalus
Just tell them this.........

You want them to:

1) Set up the in ceiling speakers
2) Run speaker wires for everything (which you will provide if they decide to be asshats and charge too much)
3) From there you will set up your receiver and your remotes

I, or some other person on here I'm sure, would be happy to help you with whatever setup questions you have on the phone for free rather than pay some guy 1000 bucks for 30 minutes work of doing the same thing.

I'll do it for 40 dollars PayPal, over Ventrillo. j/k....

 

[SLCentral]

Ah, let me disagree with everyone here regarding the remote control. The Universal line works SIGNIFICANTLY better then the Harmonys, and this comes from someone who uses exclusively Harmony. What I don't like about them is that they have to be programmed professionally, hence the $250 charge. It's a reasonable cost, as it does take a few good hours to program them. I don't like that you have to rely on someone else if you ever change your equipment.

I'd talk to them about the cable price, but know that this is where they make their money. Understand that if you buy the cables separately, they won't be as motivated to help you.

The Panamax is a more personal decision. It's major thing is line conditioning, to give you "cleaner power." As a Magnolia salesperson, I think it's snakeoil. The MX4300 is their entry level model, and I do suggest it, not for the line conditioning, but rather surge protection in a clean look. When you have $6K of equipment, its a good idea to make sure its protected.

If you're looking to cut costs, get AIM2's or AIM1's for the rears. No need to have super high-end speakers for the rear sound. I should mention that the AIM's sound great for HT for an in-ceiling speaker, and I've been very happy when demoing them.

 

[Descartes]

Well, I got a revised proposal from this company. They reduced the cost on the cables quite a lot and suggested a Klipsch RC52 center speaker and Speakercraft CRS6Two instead of the others. Total cost reduction with everything was almost $3k, so it's now ~$4.5k for everything. The sub suggested is now a Klipsch RW10d. Any downfalls to this approach?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Can you go out and listen to these speakers? I would highly recommend doing that to see if you're getting something that appeals to you.

Also, I have not done much listening to in-wall / in-ceiling speakers, but from what I have read, getting ones with their own enclosures that go into the ceiling/wall have some significant advantages over ones that rely on your walls/ceiling for that.

 

[Deudalus]

Originally posted by: Descartes
Well, I got a revised proposal from this company. They reduced the cost on the cables quite a lot and suggested a Klipsch RC52 center speaker and Speakercraft CRS6Two instead of the others. Total cost reduction with everything was almost $3k, so it's now ~$4.5k for everything. The sub suggested is now a Klipsch RW10d. Any downfalls to this approach?

Non matching center channel to the rest of your speakers basically.

You want your front left, right, and center channel to match or it will bug you.

It sounds like the downgraded the speakers to save money more than lessened the cost of the wires to me.

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Did you ask them about just speaker installation and skipping the other components / setup costs?

 

[Deudalus]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Did you ask them about just speaker installation and skipping the other components / setup costs?

^

 

[SLCentral]

Originally posted by: Descartes
Well, I got a revised proposal from this company. They reduced the cost on the cables quite a lot and suggested a Klipsch RC52 center speaker and Speakercraft CRS6Two instead of the others. Total cost reduction with everything was almost $3k, so it's now ~$4.5k for everything. The sub suggested is now a Klipsch RW10d. Any downfalls to this approach?

Keep the AIM3's for the fronts, and I would also get a Speakercraft center speaker. No need for it to aim, and it'll probably be more expensive then the Klipsch or the B&W, but it'll match the L/R. The rears I would go with AIM1's. Save money on speakers where sound won't be important.

Don't settle for less quality sound just to cut costs. I find Klipsch subs to be too boomy, BTW, but that's just me. Like YoYo said, I'd suggest going and DEMOing everything that they are mentioning to you.

At Magnolia, I have a set of Vienna Acoustic speakers which I absolutely love (enough that I bought them), and I get 75% of customers 100% agreeing with me, but then theres the other 25% who think they're worth no more then 1/4 its price. It's really a personal decision.

 

[cheesehead]

I'd pay a few DIY nuts to build you a set of five Modula MTs, a highly popular DIY speaker that costs about $300/pair to build. These speakers should perform about as well - if not better than - the Speakercrafts, and cost much, much less.

I'm personally not crazy about Klipsch - again, DIY is your friend. A nice Dayton subwoofer kit is the most simple and easy answer. Starting at about $250, they offer very good performance for the money. (You paint 'em yourself, though.)

For proper in-walls, I'd go with Bohlender-Graebner or Triad. I've used BG parts before, and their tweeters are stellar for in-wall use; Triad uses mostly high-end Vifa and Scan-Speak drivers, which fall into the category of "They don't make 'em any better."

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Deudalus

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
Did you ask them about just speaker installation and skipping the other components / setup costs?

^

Sorry all, just getting settled after being out of town.

Yes, I did ask them about that. He didn't budge on the installation, but he did cut off the programming, etc. That knocked off a fair amount. I'm essentially being charged ~$1000 for installing the speakers and mounting the plasma. That still seems a little high to me, but not entirely unreasonable; remember, they don't have to run any wires, add any outlets or anything like that.

 

[Excelsior]

Originally posted by: Cheesehead
I'd pay a few DIY nuts to build you a set of five Modula MTs, a highly popular DIY speaker that costs about $300/pair to build. These speakers should perform about as well - if not better than - the Speakercrafts, and cost much, much less.

I'm personally not crazy about Klipsch - again, DIY is your friend. A nice Dayton subwoofer kit is the most simple and easy answer. Starting at about $250, they offer very good performance for the money. (You paint 'em yourself, though.)

For proper in-walls, I'd go with Bohlender-Graebner or Triad. I've used BG parts before, and their tweeters are stellar for in-wall use; Triad uses mostly high-end Vifa and Scan-Speak drivers, which fall into the category of "They don't make 'em any better."

Agreed.

And since the OP is doing in-wall speakers, why not go ahead and do an infinite baffle for the sub setup. Those 10" "subs" hardly deserve to be called subwoofers.

 

[Indolent]

I would assume they would have looked into this already, but you don't mention it. Is your tv 1080p?

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: Indolent
I would assume they would have looked into this already, but you don't mention it. Is your tv 1080p?

Nope. It's a Panasonic TH-50PX75U.

 

[Descartes]

Well everyone, I thought I'd provide an update. I want to again thank everyone for their help in my navigating unfamiliar territory.

So, I spoke with the installer again. I'm sure he thinks I'm a pain in the arse at this point, but just because I'm dropping ~$5k doesn't mean I'm ok with $500 excess. I hear a lot of arguments about, "If you're spending $5k, who cares about $500 cable?" I do. I want the best value for my money.

So, that brings me to the point. I decided on keeping the AIM3s for the front and potentially AIM2s for the rear. I also plan on going back to the B&W center and sub. The installer says at least the center will match the fronts. He does not have the AIM3s in the shop ready for listening, so I can't really demo them. That said, they do stand behind everything and I have the ability to upgrade/change/whatever if it's not satisfactory. Given that I'm an audio nooblet, I'm sure I'll be happy.

Also, he did say that I could get my own cables if I wished. He'll give me an inventory and I'll buy them on my own. He said he would prefer I go with the Tributaries cable because he feels it makes a discernable difference, but the choice is mine. So, I have to decide whether or not ~$600+ of cable is worth it over maybe ~$100 from somewhere like Monoprice. My guess is no, but my nooblet status comes into play again.

That's all for now. Thanks again!

 

[Deudalus]

Also, he did say that I could get my own cables if I wished. He'll give me an inventory and I'll buy them on my own. He said he would prefer I go with the Tributaries cable because he feels it makes a discernable difference, but the choice is mine. So, I have to decide whether or not ~$600+ of cable is worth it over maybe ~$100 from somewhere like Monoprice. My guess is no, but my nooblet status comes into play again.

There is absolutely no difference period.

I only speak one language but if I was bored enough I'd google until I could say "none" in every language known to man.......

 

[A5]

I wouldn't bother with the Marantz DVD player and just get an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player for a little more money...any of them will upscale DVDs nearly as well, and you get the option of real HD content.