Any of you getting that eerie feeling as well?

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Deudalus

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
The U.S. is the one supporting "crackpot middle eastern" dictators. Saudi Arabia anyone?
Screwing the pooch on Iraq was more than Bush "overstepping his bounds a little". It was a mistake of gigantic proportions we will be paying for over the next several generations.
There was already plenty to make people "choose sides" The Israeli/Palestinian conflict ring any bells?

Those are some great talking points and I have a funny feeling you fall into that category of "extremist wackos" that I talked about in sentence numero uno.

What I was hoping for is for someone to actually approach the question rather than cut and paste from the Limbaugh Letter or the Huffington Post.

Sadly, you arent quite sharp enough to pick up on that.

But you regurgitate with the best of them. Ill give ya that much.

Since when is the truth "extremist whacko"?

Who helped Saddam into power? Who helped the ruthless Shah of Iran into power? Who helped the brutal Pinochet into power? Who supported right-wing death squds in Central America with money from arms sales to Iran?

And, btw, you mentioned Iran, specifically, in terms of aggression. Can you name the acts of aggression on the part of Iran? For example, list the countries that Iran has invaded in the last 20 years.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Deudalus
Really?

They all harped on that same intel, and they all thought the same things under Clinton but I'll bite anyways.

What exactly is she doing to get us out of Iraq? Is she pushing some legislation that would force us to pull out in the immediate future?

I haven't seen any, I sure have heard some talk though.

Speaking of Talking Points.

Or are you trying to tell us all that Bush invaded with 5 year-old intel? :roll:

As for Pelosi and the Dems:

http://cbs2.com/politics/politicsnational_story_082102520.html

WASHINGTON A majority of the House has voted to approve a bill requiring President Bush to withdraw combat troops from Iraq by fall 2008, with the vote still under way.

After days of lobbying by party leaders, chances of passage increased after many liberal opponents of the bill ? who had said that it did not go far enough to end the war immediately ? announced they would not stand in its way.

The $124 billion bill would finance the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan but require combat troops to return home before September 2008, possibly sooner, if the Iraqi government does not meet certain requirements.

 

[tomywishbone]

"...But, when you look at what is going on in the Middle East it is getting wilder by the minute. While I think Bush overstepped his bounds a bit by going to Iraq I have always felt that something drastic had to happen to force Middle Easterners to choose sides in this conflict that has been raging for countless years now..."


Wow, just F-ing wow.

bushler is laughing harder than ever at all of us.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Nancy Pelosi voted to go to war.

She is the problem.

Now she is trying to Buy Votes. Just more politics.

She is just as guilty as Bush.

The thing is she is not taking responsiblity for her actions and Bush is.

Pelosi is a big fake.

Wow, the desperation by the resident Republicans is more hysterical than I ever imagined.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh::laugh: :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[Deudalus]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

So show us where she says we should stay and fight? I won't hold my breath waiting for the link.

Uhh, the Democrats are in power now.

If they wanted to put their foot down they could stop the war immediately. Lest you forget (though probably you never knew) Congress has the power of the purse.

If they want the war to end they cut funding and thats it. So once again, if they really wanted the war to end they could end it at any time.

 

[Rainsford]

I've posted about this before, but this thread and the post that started it are perfect examples of what I think it wrong with political debate. Gone are all the numerous complexities that define WHAT the issues are, much less how to solve them. And the unsuitable replacement for that thought process is the silly black and white viewpoint where we're forced to "choose sides". It's idiotic, it's how sheep (or more appropriately, lemmings) act, and it's unworthy of the power and responsibility we're given as citizens of the world's most powerful democracy.

Surely there must be another choice, a BETTER choice, than either siding with Osama or embracing the anti-Muslim lunacy that makes up the position of folks like Jaskalas. And that's the problem with "you must pick a side" bullshit, it encourages the same kind of polarizing, extremist stupidity that the OP opines against. I mean, jeez, I don't want to support terrorism, so clearly my only alternative is to wage war against all Muslims everywhere. What's that, I want to just go after the extremists setting off bombs? No can do, 'cause I'm not "choosing sides". I'm not exercising intelligent judgment in the way I think best calculated to actually bring about a good resolution to the problem, I'm being weak and indecisive, probably because I don't like GWB.

I realize it's bad form to call people names, so I'll just say that, Deudalus, this thread is one of the reasons a lot of liberals think most conservatives are stupid...because while you might not be, you certainly act like it. You mention generic "middle east dictators", Iran, Iraq, and the war on terrorism in the same idea, then suggest liberals are weak or waffley or need to choose sides or want the US to lose because we don't share exactly the same viewpoint you have on all those issues, which you seem to view as one big issue with only two sides.

The world is not simple or straightforward. And dealing with any issue requires something more than action movie style "with us or against us" bullshit. If I'm getting any "eerie feeling" about politics in general, it's that nobody seems to be learning that lines stupid enough to make it into Star Wars: Episode III are probably not a good basis for a political philosophy. I feel like I've been having this same stupid-ass discussion with conservatives for years, and you folks don't seem to be getting any smarter. If I'm having any feeling, it's deja vu.

 

[judasmachine]

I don't want us to lose the GWOT, but come on, what are we going to do? Keep Iraq a cesspool so we have a place to fight them? If this is the plan, I feel sorry for the Iraqis that die in the crossfire. Besides if you want to strike at the heart of the movement against us, I suggest the mountains of northern Pakistan.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Deudalus

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
The U.S. is the one supporting "crackpot middle eastern" dictators. Saudi Arabia anyone?
Screwing the pooch on Iraq was more than Bush "overstepping his bounds a little". It was a mistake of gigantic proportions we will be paying for over the next several generations.
There was already plenty to make people "choose sides" The Israeli/Palestinian conflict ring any bells?

Those are some great talking points and I have a funny feeling you fall into that category of "extremist wackos" that I talked about in sentence numero uno.

What I was hoping for is for someone to actually approach the question rather than cut and paste from the Limbaugh Letter or the Huffington Post.

Sadly, you arent quite sharp enough to pick up on that.

But you regurgitate with the best of them. Ill give ya that much.

way to marginalize an argument and not actually counter it.

Yes you are right, invading iraq forced people to choose sides, but it seems that most of these people are choosing the other side. I strongly doubt that forcing people to choose sides was a good idea to begin with, and certainly not the way we choose to make them choose. If the goal was to marginalize radical muslims, than iraq was clearly a poor target, as they were more on our side in this than against us. Now, where there had been no radical islamist force, there is one, and its now the dominant social force in the country.

Either way, it just seems like the Middle Eastern problems continue to escalate and intensify as more people (mainly Iran) act out in aggression or choose sides. Iran acts against us while other European countries (namely France) are starting to back off of their anti-American sentiments a bit.

Perhaps Iran wouldn't be acting so belligerently if we hadn't force them to choose sides? I guess we know which side they choose though, huh? (the current iranian president was elected almost directly due to american meddling, for some reason our leaders deceided it would be a good idea to encourage moderates to boycott the election)

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Deudalus

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
The U.S. is the one supporting "crackpot middle eastern" dictators. Saudi Arabia anyone?
Screwing the pooch on Iraq was more than Bush "overstepping his bounds a little". It was a mistake of gigantic proportions we will be paying for over the next several generations.
There was already plenty to make people "choose sides" The Israeli/Palestinian conflict ring any bells?

Those are some great talking points and I have a funny feeling you fall into that category of "extremist wackos" that I talked about in sentence numero uno.

What I was hoping for is for someone to actually approach the question rather than cut and paste from the Limbaugh Letter or the Huffington Post.

Sadly, you arent quite sharp enough to pick up on that.

But you regurgitate with the best of them. Ill give ya that much.

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: jpeyton
Someone else tackle this one.
I'm tired of wasting my time chatting with AT P&N's version of Tony Snow.

It most likely IS Tony Snow or at least a close paid staffer.

As you can see Deudalus the sides were picked here a long time ago. Many of us are pro-militant Islam and anyone not demonizing the west along side them is obviously a paid white house staffer.

You believe, maybe, that they are misguided? I can assure you indoctrination is stronger than that, and that is exactly how our two party system works. Each are devout to their side here, with perhaps a few on the sidelines but you can see for yourself how the guys quoted above view things.

I can assure you no one is changing their mind. The west is evil, but show them a foreign maniacal dictator or theocracy and they flock to that side in droves. They hate us so greatly their allegiances have no regard for their own safety or values.

Originally posted by: sandorski
What are the "sides'?

The west VS militant Islam.

who is the west? Where are they from?




Also, I <3 Rainsford. [/thread]

 

[Deudalus]

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I've posted about this before, but this thread and the post that started it are perfect examples of what I think it wrong with political debate. Gone are all the numerous complexities that define WHAT the issues are, much less how to solve them. And the unsuitable replacement for that thought process is the silly black and white viewpoint where we're forced to "choose sides". It's idiotic, it's how sheep (or more appropriately, lemmings) act, and it's unworthy of the power and responsibility we're given as citizens of the world's most powerful democracy.

Hrm, so what is the middle ground?

I think there was room for diplomacy, there was a time in which we could have worked things out in a more peaceful way. But, I dunno maybe around the time that they started beheading people and blowing up World Trade Centers that time might have passed.

What you are asking for is diplomacy long after that is doable. If any of the other presidents leading up to Bush would have attempted to deal with this problem then diplomacy and middle ground could have worked. But not now.

I realize it's bad form to call people names, so I'll just say that, Deudalus, this thread is one of the reasons a lot of liberals think most conservatives are stupid...because while you might not be, you certainly act like it. You mention generic "middle east dictators", Iran, Iraq, and the war on terrorism in the same idea, then suggest liberals are weak or waffley or need to choose sides or want the US to lose because we don't share exactly the same viewpoint you have on all those issues, which you seem to view as one big issue with only two sides.

Where?

Please show me where I labeled myself a conservative, labeled you a liberal, or labeled anyone anything. I don't consider Clinton a liberal. I don't consider Bush a conservative. They each do things outside of those norms. I myself do not belong to either camp and am very much a centrist.

The world is not simple or straightforward. And dealing with any issue requires something more than action movie style "with us or against us" bullshit. If I'm getting any "eerie feeling" about politics in general, it's that nobody seems to be learning that lines stupid enough to make it into Star Wars: Episode III are probably not a good basis for a political philosophy. I feel like I've been having this same stupid-ass discussion with conservatives for years, and you folks don't seem to be getting any smarter. If I'm having any feeling, it's deja vu.

So once again, you continue to say this and continue to label me a conservative because that fits me neatly into your little box of "X people believe Y" but you aren't actually attempting to answer any questions.

You aren't trying to solve any problems, you are simply pointing your finger at me and calling me names for taking a different viewpoint.

Lebanon in the 70's, the embassy bombings, the USS Cole, it was then that diplomacy should have been enacted with the countries that support the people who commit these acts.

I think after 9/11 the time for diplomacy was unfortunately wasted. If you have a solution to this mess that doesn't involve military conflict then I'm all ears.

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: Deudalus

Originally posted by: Rainsford
I've posted about this before, but this thread and the post that started it are perfect examples of what I think it wrong with political debate. Gone are all the numerous complexities that define WHAT the issues are, much less how to solve them. And the unsuitable replacement for that thought process is the silly black and white viewpoint where we're forced to "choose sides". It's idiotic, it's how sheep (or more appropriately, lemmings) act, and it's unworthy of the power and responsibility we're given as citizens of the world's most powerful democracy.

Hrm, so what is the middle ground?

I think there was room for diplomacy, there was a time in which we could have worked things out in a more peaceful way. But, I dunno maybe around the time that they started beheading people and blowing up World Trade Centers that time might have passed.

What you are asking for is diplomacy long after that is doable. If any of the other presidents leading up to Bush would have attempted to deal with this problem then diplomacy and middle ground could have worked. But not now.

I realize it's bad form to call people names, so I'll just say that, Deudalus, this thread is one of the reasons a lot of liberals think most conservatives are stupid...because while you might not be, you certainly act like it. You mention generic "middle east dictators", Iran, Iraq, and the war on terrorism in the same idea, then suggest liberals are weak or waffley or need to choose sides or want the US to lose because we don't share exactly the same viewpoint you have on all those issues, which you seem to view as one big issue with only two sides.

Where?

Please show me where I labeled myself a conservative, labeled you a liberal, or labeled anyone anything. I don't consider Clinton a liberal. I don't consider Bush a conservative. They each do things outside of those norms. I myself do not belong to either camp and am very much a centrist.

The world is not simple or straightforward. And dealing with any issue requires something more than action movie style "with us or against us" bullshit. If I'm getting any "eerie feeling" about politics in general, it's that nobody seems to be learning that lines stupid enough to make it into Star Wars: Episode III are probably not a good basis for a political philosophy. I feel like I've been having this same stupid-ass discussion with conservatives for years, and you folks don't seem to be getting any smarter. If I'm having any feeling, it's deja vu.

So once again, you continue to say this and continue to label me a conservative because that fits me neatly into your little box of "X people believe Y" but you aren't actually attempting to answer any questions.

You aren't trying to solve any problems, you are simply pointing your finger at me and calling me names for taking a different viewpoint.

Lebanon in the 70's, the embassy bombings, the USS Cole, it was then that diplomacy should have been enacted with the countries that support the people who commit these acts.

I think after 9/11 the time for diplomacy was unfortunately wasted. If you have a solution to this mess that doesn't involve military conflict then I'm all ears.

the answer lies in taking moral leaps about how we live our lives that people are not willing to take so theres no point in talking about a solution

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Deudalus
I think after 9/11 the time for diplomacy was unfortunately wasted. If you have a solution to this mess that doesn't involve military conflict then I'm all ears.

We?re going to let them fully develop nuclear technology and/or do absolutely anything they like because it?s none of our business. That?s how we ?handle? it.

Isn't that right guys?

 

[Lemon law]

The problem is not really the people involved in this debate, the problem is that the collective we not being quick enough to spot and totally reject bogus arguments---and I cite this oft repeated gem.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


--------But, I dunno maybe around the time that they started beheading people and blowing up World Trade Centers that time might have passed. ----------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can some one tell me what perhaps 100 organized terrorists have to do with about 1.4 billion people who happen to believe in Islam?

The point being, I could write from dusk to dawn about various Christian nuts we have had in our history doing equally nutty things, never running out of examples, and still have plenty of material I missed.---but would be probably sure to include the current deeds of our born again President.

Would that mean all Christians are total wackos? In a word no--because its just as bogus an argument
as the little gem that I cited above about Islam.

But as soon as we buy ANY emotional bogus argument----the rest of the product of that argument
is just a totally flawed product.---and leads us astray into places like Iraq and countless other quagmires.

 

[Deudalus]

Can some one tell me what perhaps 100 organized terrorists have to do with about 1.4 billion people who happen to believe in Islam?

First of all, there is far, far more than 100 organized terrorists in the world today. When you consider all of the islamo fascist groups operating in and around Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan that number is way higher than 100. That isn't even including some others in eastern Asia. The problem is in the Middle East. Also the problem is the information that your average Middle Easterner is allowed access to.

Thomas Friedman did a really important piece for the Discoverty New York Times channel that you might find interesting. There were high school students in the Middle East that were taught that Jews planned 9/11 and they all escaped from the buildings before the planes hit. They thought that Al Gore was not allowed to be elected because he is a Jew. While the average Muslim is not a terrorist, there are alot whole lot of terrorist sympathizers in countries over there because of the lack of free press. Everything is government controlled and approved which means a whole new breed of terrorists and terrorist sympathizers are created every single day.

The point being, I could write from dusk to dawn about various Christian nuts we have had in our history doing equally nutty things, never running out of examples, and still have plenty of material I missed.

Yes, once upon a time. I'm not a Christian and it doesn't bother me at all to point out all the horrible things that has been done in the name of Christianity a long time ago. But Christianity grew out of what Islam is growing into centuries ago.

Christians by and large do not argue that it should be legal to beat your wife. A very, very small amount of extremeist Christians would want laws based around the Bible where as a great many Muslims want Sharia law. I can't think of the last time I saw a beheading in middle America, nor the last time Christians lined up en masse to blow themselves or their children up.

In case you haven't heard thats the latest fad, put kids in the suicide car bombings because our troops who see kids in cars aren't as alarmed. When was the last time a Christian did that?

Also I doubt that Christians would promise a whole bunch of virgins to anyone who did such a thing, but I could be wrong.

I'm not saying Christianity doesn't have a shady past, but it is nowhere near as brutal as Islam's present.

 

[Lemon law]

To Deudalus---who sez---I'm not saying Christianity doesn't have a shaky past, but it is nowhere near as brutal as Islam's present.

Sadly Christianity's present in the form of GWB&co. and jerks like Pat Robertson can make militant Islam and Christianity exact mirror images of each other. Only the tactics differ--and thats because one side has the bigger and more technologically advanced military----and its happening---TODAY---RIGHT NOW. While the huge bulk of us on either side look in abject disbelief that humans can be that brutal, cold, and irresponsible.

The point being THEY is a big big word----and honest debaters should use some or very few instead of the nebulous and all too inclusive THEY.

 

[Deudalus]

Originally posted by: Lemon law


Sadly Christianity's present in the form of GWB&co. and jerks like Pat Robertson can make militant Islam and Christianity exact mirror images of each other. Only the tactics differ--and thats because one side has the bigger and more technologically advanced military----and its happening---TODAY---RIGHT NOW. While the huge bulk of us on either side look in abject disbelief that humans can be that brutal, cold, and irresponsible.

I'm sorry but I don't see it.

Sure Pat Robertson is nuts but he isn't out killing people, promising virgin pussy to suicide bombers, or plotting to whipe a country off the map.

Please elaborate on how GWB and his ilk are on the same nutso level as Osama Bin Laden and his ilk.

I don't particularly like either of them but to truly compare the two and consider it apples to apples to me shows that you are losing touch with reality.

I know its the big extremeist catch phrase "GWB world's worst terrorist" yadda yadda yadda, but I have yet to see anyone actually try to back up that assinine statement.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Deudalus

Originally posted by: Lemon law


Sadly Christianity's present in the form of GWB&co. and jerks like Pat Robertson can make militant Islam and Christianity exact mirror images of each other. Only the tactics differ--and thats because one side has the bigger and more technologically advanced military----and its happening---TODAY---RIGHT NOW. While the huge bulk of us on either side look in abject disbelief that humans can be that brutal, cold, and irresponsible.

I'm sorry but I don't see it.

Sure Pat Robertson is nuts but he isn't out killing people, promising virgin pussy to suicide bombers, or plotting to whipe a country off the map.

Please elaborate on how GWB and his ilk are on the same nutso level as Osama Bin Laden and his ilk.

I don't particularly like either of them but to truly compare the two and consider it apples to apples to me shows that you are losing touch with reality.

I know its the big extremeist catch phrase "GWB world's worst terrorist" yadda yadda yadda, but I have yet to see anyone actually try to back up that assinine statement.

Of course you don't see it. That was my point when I said:

"I think you are trapped in a delusional existential dilemma that does not exist. You are filled with nonsensical ideas that paint you into a corner that does not exist. There is no answers for you because you have them all already. What you need to do is take a giant dump and purge yourself of all that sh!t. Your thoughts are a spider spinning a web and you have caught yourself.

What you need is the courage to be a nobody who knows nothing at all because it is who you really are. You know everything because of fear. You can't take the terror of being uncertain. You must know."

You are a self propelled top that spins and spins. Hope can come only when you wind down.

 

[Deudalus]

Of course you don't see it. That was my point when I said:

"I think you are trapped in a delusional existential dilemma that does not exist. You are filled with nonsensical ideas that paint you into a corner that does not exist. There is no answers for you because you have them all already. What you need to do is take a giant dump and purge yourself of all that sh!t. Your thoughts are a spider spinning a web and you have caught yourself.

What you need is the courage to be a nobody who knows nothing at all because it is who you really are. You know everything because of fear. You can't take the terror of being uncertain. You must know."

You are a self propelled top that spins and spins. Hope can come only when you wind down.

Says the guy named Moonbeam.......

What I really need is the courage to spend 12 months a year follow Phish around, not bathing, not shaving, and banging a bongo in some park. Perhaps then I can adopt your viewpoints, but sadly I live in the real world. Ya know, the really real world.

I know you think you have this enlightened point of view and everyone is such a sheep, but there is a reason you are considered fringe, nuts, or extremeist.

Do you HONESTLY believe that the 99% of the country that is somewhere in the middle on these issues like me are so wrong and you and your hippie ilk are so right? Could you be much more elitist and naive?

How about for once instead of accusing everyone else who doesn't think like you (virtually everyone you shouldn't have to look hard) you actually get out a bit. Maybe go to a forum filled with people who's views vary from your own rather than sit on comfy P&N with a bunch of people who for the most part agree with your ramblings?

Thats what I did, thats why I'm here. I enjoy the discussions and the debate. Maybe I like playing the underdog, I dunno. But I enjoy the fact that I'm in the minority on P&N as a freakin moderate, do you enjoy being in the majority?

I'm quite sure you do, it would suck to have anyone rock your boat or destroy the fragile little world of fiction that you have constructed in your fragile little mind.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Deudalus

Of course you don't see it. That was my point when I said:

"I think you are trapped in a delusional existential dilemma that does not exist. You are filled with nonsensical ideas that paint you into a corner that does not exist. There is no answers for you because you have them all already. What you need to do is take a giant dump and purge yourself of all that sh!t. Your thoughts are a spider spinning a web and you have caught yourself.

What you need is the courage to be a nobody who knows nothing at all because it is who you really are. You know everything because of fear. You can't take the terror of being uncertain. You must know."

You are a self propelled top that spins and spins. Hope can come only when you wind down.

Says the guy named Moonbeam.......

What I really need is the courage to spend 12 months a year follow Phish around, not bathing, not shaving, and banging a bongo in some park. Perhaps then I can adopt your viewpoints, but sadly I live in the real world. Ya know, the really real world.

I know you think you have this enlightened point of view and everyone is such a sheep, but there is a reason you are considered fringe, nuts, or extremeist.

Do you HONESTLY believe that the 99% of the country that is somewhere in the middle on these issues like me are so wrong and you and your hippie ilk are so right? Could you be much more elitist and naive?

How about for once instead of accusing everyone else who doesn't think like you (virtually everyone you shouldn't have to look hard) you actually get out a bit. Maybe go to a forum filled with people who's views vary from your own rather than sit on comfy P&N with a bunch of people who for the most part agree with your ramblings?

Thats what I did, thats why I'm here. I enjoy the discussions and the debate. Maybe I like playing the underdog, I dunno. But I enjoy the fact that I'm in the minority on P&N as a freakin moderate, do you enjoy being in the majority?

I'm quite sure you do, it would suck to have anyone rock your boat or destroy the fragile little world of fiction that you have constructed in your fragile little mind.

I know Moderates and you're no moderate.

 

[IGBT]

Originally posted by: Deudalus

Can some one tell me what perhaps 100 organized terrorists have to do with about 1.4 billion people who happen to believe in Islam?

First of all, there is far, far more than 100 organized terrorists in the world today. When you consider all of the islamo fascist groups operating in and around Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan that number is way higher than 100. That isn't even including some others in eastern Asia. The problem is in the Middle East. Also the problem is the information that your average Middle Easterner is allowed access to.

Thomas Friedman did a really important piece for the Discoverty New York Times channel that you might find interesting. There were high school students in the Middle East that were taught that Jews planned 9/11 and they all escaped from the buildings before the planes hit. They thought that Al Gore was not allowed to be elected because he is a Jew. While the average Muslim is not a terrorist, there are alot whole lot of terrorist sympathizers in countries over there because of the lack of free press. Everything is government controlled and approved which means a whole new breed of terrorists and terrorist sympathizers are created every single day.

The point being, I could write from dusk to dawn about various Christian nuts we have had in our history doing equally nutty things, never running out of examples, and still have plenty of material I missed.

Yes, once upon a time. I'm not a Christian and it doesn't bother me at all to point out all the horrible things that has been done in the name of Christianity a long time ago. But Christianity grew out of what Islam is growing into centuries ago.

Christians by and large do not argue that it should be legal to beat your wife. A very, very small amount of extremeist Christians would want laws based around the Bible where as a great many Muslims want Sharia law. I can't think of the last time I saw a beheading in middle America, nor the last time Christians lined up en masse to blow themselves or their children up.

In case you haven't heard thats the latest fad, put kids in the suicide car bombings because our troops who see kids in cars aren't as alarmed. When was the last time a Christian did that?

Also I doubt that Christians would promise a whole bunch of virgins to anyone who did such a thing, but I could be wrong.

I'm not saying Christianity doesn't have a shady past, but it is nowhere near as brutal as Islam's present.

..islam is a retrograde way of life. Not a religion. But if they win don't worry. allah says it's a mans world.

 

[her209]

Is it just me or is Deudalus labeling/categorizing everyone who opposes his opinion an extremist?

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: her209
Is it just me or is Deudalus labeling/categorizing everyone who opposes his opinion an extremist?

Not only that but he made fun of my name and hurt my feelings.

 

[IGBT]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: her209
Is it just me or is Deudalus labeling/categorizing everyone who opposes his opinion an extremist?

Not only that but he made fun of my name and hurt my feelings.

..are you by any chance Jerry Brown??

 

[Thump553]

My "extremist" view: GWB has sr*wed the pooch just about as bad as humanly possible in the Mideast, between invading and destabilizing Iraq, fostering both current and future generations of Islamic extremists, and with his unilateral siding with Israel in their invasion of Lebanon and repression of Palestine. Not to mention our much touted push to bring democracy to the Mideast-conventiently ignored when the Palestinians elect a government we don't like, or our friend Eygpt yet again brutally quashes it's democracy advocates (not to mention giving the totalitarian state of Saudi Arabia a free ride altogether on the democracy topic).

That said, it appears that the Mideast is more stable than was commonly thought. Given everything Bush has done wrong there, conventional wisdom would expect the entire region to be in flames already.

 

[UberNeuman]

Originally posted by: Deudalus

I personally like to see people choose sides as I feel that its inevitable. But where do you all of you stand? Does anyone here truly believe that we should lose the war on terrorism because we are guilty of some crime? Does anyone really wanna see us dodging bullets and hauling ass out of Iraq like we did in South Vietnam?

Does anyone wanna see America fall and take our chances on what hegemon will take our place in the world stage? While I don't hate China, I don't think they would be anywhere near as peaceful of a hegemon as we are here in the States.

What do you all think?

I think it must eat you up that the US has normal relations with Vietnam today (since 1994) and are a trade partner with us...

So, that "hauling ass" managed to save lives.....