Any non-TN 24'' LCD good for gaming?

[TheDrake]

Originally posted by: n7
LG L245WP/L246WP.

Two of my buds own it; i can't recommend it enough.

seems like CC has them on sale for $450 and I am sure you can find a 10% coupon to drop it down to $405 plus tax.

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm...m/ccd/productDetail.do

I am tempted to snatch it up from what I have heard about it. Buying a LCD local is important to alot of people because sometimes buying online if you get a stuck pixel and cant get it unstuck then most online places wont take it back if its just one or two pixels.

 

[n7]

Originally posted by: TheDrake

Originally posted by: n7
LG L245WP/L246WP.

Two of my buds own it; i can't recommend it enough.

seems like CC has them on sale for $450 and I am sure you can find a 10% coupon to drop it down to $405 plus tax.

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm...m/ccd/productDetail.do

I am tempted to snatch it up from what I have heard about it. Buying a LCD local is important to alot of people because sometimes buying online if you get a stuck pixel and cant get it unstuck then most online places wont take it back if its just one or two pixels.

Very nice price!

$600 is pretty much the cheapest you can find *VA 24"ers in Canada, so yeah...damn nice.

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: stultus
I'm using the 24" Soyo

Me too. I play WoW, WolfET and a whole bunch of TF2. Works great!.

 

[alkemyst]

Prior to LCD's people usually had piss poor monitors regularly.

most of the problems reported are by the same types of people that didn't run those piss poor CRT's to begin with.

YMMV on things like this, but many of the panels out there today would suffice for most.

Personally I am sticking with my 21" Trinitron Sony 500 for a bit longer, but much of the technology out there today has me ready to go. I want to go larger than 24" though.

 

[dalearyous]

how about the L2410NM. i heard it was pretty good and its currently on sale at BB for $359

 

[n7]

Originally posted by: dalearyous
how about the L2410NM. i heard it was pretty good and its currently on sale at BB for $359

Go in & take a look.

There's talk that some of them are TNs now, but others not...

Good thing about BB is you can always return, but if it's a P-MVA like it should be, $360 is amazing.

 

[n7]

Thread on teh Westy.
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1226712

 

[lopri]

That Westy is mighty tempting to replace my aging Dell 2405 with. Am I seeing one HDMI and one VGA? No DVI?

 

[CP5670]

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
What do you have against TN? You sound primarily concerned about gaming (given its the only thing you mentioned), and there are several very good 24" TN panels out there. The only reason I'd avoid TN would be if I was planning on using the panel for other things - graphical work and 2nd best sheer performance gaming option I'd go with S-IPS (I think there might be a trend that suggests S-IPS tend to have low input lag and their response times are generally faster than other panels of same/similar quoted response), general purpose use with an emphasis on media playback where you'll have multiple viewers or odd viewing angles I'd go with an MVA/PVA panel for better viewing angles and blacks and the fact that they're cheaper than S-IPS (although more expensive than TN). But in reality TN panels - especially the higher quality ones - have come a long way since the beginning and can offer a very great panel for use even outside of gaming.

The speed of TNs is good for gaming, but I've found the dithering effects to seriously hamper image quality even on the latest Hi-FRC monitors. The dithering actually works pretty well on still images, but it's very noticeable on many kinds of moving patterns.

I think IPS monitors are the best overall, although they aren't as great as they are often made out to be and do have their shortcomings.

 

[soccerballtux]

Originally posted by: CP5670

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles
What do you have against TN? You sound primarily concerned about gaming (given its the only thing you mentioned), and there are several very good 24" TN panels out there. The only reason I'd avoid TN would be if I was planning on using the panel for other things - graphical work and 2nd best sheer performance gaming option I'd go with S-IPS (I think there might be a trend that suggests S-IPS tend to have low input lag and their response times are generally faster than other panels of same/similar quoted response), general purpose use with an emphasis on media playback where you'll have multiple viewers or odd viewing angles I'd go with an MVA/PVA panel for better viewing angles and blacks and the fact that they're cheaper than S-IPS (although more expensive than TN). But in reality TN panels - especially the higher quality ones - have come a long way since the beginning and can offer a very great panel for use even outside of gaming.

The speed of TNs is good for gaming, but I've found the dithering effects to seriously hamper image quality even on the latest Hi-FRC monitors. The dithering actually works pretty well on still images, but it's very noticeable on many kinds of moving patterns.

I think IPS monitors are the best overall, although they aren't as great as they are often made out to be and do have their shortcomings.

This sounds interesting. Could you clarify what exactly it looks like with a moving image?

 

[soccerballtux]

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: stultus
I'm using the 24" Soyo

Me too. I play WoW, WolfET and a whole bunch of TF2. Works great!.

You know honestly I'm a little disappointed by the black levels such as when watching movies with the lights turned off. However, for $370 after insurance, there was CLEARLY a better deal for P-MVA panels I should have spent my money on.

 

[Deinonych]

Even the best LCD displays are going to have less-than-optimal black levels. It's a shortcoming of the technology.

 

[n7]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: stultus
I'm using the 24" Soyo

Me too. I play WoW, WolfET and a whole bunch of TF2. Works great!.

You know honestly I'm a little disappointed by the black levels such as when watching movies with the lights turned off. However, for $370 after insurance, there was CLEARLY a better deal for P-MVA panels I should have spent my money on.

If you want perfect black levels you need an S-IPS

But that pricetag won't go down easy

 

[n7]

Originally posted by: lopri
That Westy is mighty tempting to replace my aging Dell 2405 with. Am I seeing one HDMI and one VGA? No DVI?

It comes with a DVI to HDMI cable, just like the LG L245/246WP-BN.

 

[CP5670]

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

Originally posted by: CP5670
The speed of TNs is good for gaming, but I've found the dithering effects to seriously hamper image quality even on the latest Hi-FRC monitors. The dithering actually works pretty well on still images, but it's very noticeable on many kinds of moving patterns.

I think IPS monitors are the best overall, although they aren't as great as they are often made out to be and do have their shortcomings.

This sounds interesting. Could you clarify what exactly it looks like with a moving image?

You get a sort of grainy effect on certain kinds of moving patterns with gradients in them. I've seen it a number of games on my 90GX2 and a few other 6-bit monitors. It only lasts while the object is moving around the screen and goes away quickly if you sit still. I have noticed it the most with some of the background nebulas in Freespace 2 (available in the free games thread in PC gaming), especially a particular skybox pattern used in my PI campaign for it. It doesn't occur on 8-bit LCDs though.

Originally posted by: n7
If you want perfect black levels you need an S-IPS

But that pricetag won't go down easy

I don't think IPS black levels are that great actually. The modern PVAs are generally the best in that respect, and TNs have caught up as well.

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: n7
It comes with a DVI to HDMI cable, just like the LG L245/246WP-BN.

Can't complain much but separate DVI and HDMI would have been real nice. DVI for a PC, and HDMI for Blu-Ray/HD-DVD/Upconverting DVD, etc. So the pannel is P-MVA, not TN - is that correct? I might pick one up tomorrow if they take my 10% coupon.

 

[n7]

Yes it's P-MVA.

Not sure it'll be noticeably better than your current 2505, since your 2405 is S-PVA, right?

Apparently it has a buzzing issue if you lower brightness or something, but as long as you're getting it locally, you can always return/exchange.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Originally posted by: shilatoe

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
So far I've played COD 4, FEAR, FarCry, Rome Total War, and America's Army on my NEC 2470WNX, and no problems yet. No visible ghosting or smearing and no perceptible input lag.

I will agree with that. I have played COD 2, HL2 w/Ep1 & Ep2 and Rome Total War. I couldn't be more pleased. Like Buck, I see no ghosting, smearing or input lag. Plus the NEC 2470 is great for my photo/video work. The perfect all around monitor. I'm surprised it does not get more kudos in the forum.

My guess is because:

1. XTKnight doesn't list it in his recommendations. He clearly knows more about LCD tech than I do, and he's got a valid reason why (there's only one in-depth "pro" review), but in my opinion, the 2470WNX is a much better choice than his recommended 24", the ViewSonic VX2435. Its faster (6ms/16ms vs. 8ms/20ms), has alot less input lag, much better ergonomics, and a DVI-D port instead of HDMI only. Its also more expensive, but in this case I think you get what you pay for.

2. It costs more and has less inputs than the only other 24" non-IPS that matches it: BenQ FP241. Since I don't need the extra A/V inputs, the scaler actually works (apparently the BenQ has scaling issues), and I like the NEC design and ergonomics much better, it was an easy decision. Now that the FP241W has been discontinued (and the VW has that ridiculous stand), I predict there will be more interest in the 2470WNX. There's only one 24" that beats it, and thats the $1100 NEC 2490.

Based on generally positive subjective reviews here and elsewhere, I decided to recommend it after all. The ghosting issues don't seem that bad and I don't go off price that much, for my list. I was mainly concerned with the ghosting issues PRAD mentioned but these don't seem as bad (the HardForum thread shows the extent of the ghosting and it doesn't look like a serious impediment to me, not any more than a 50 ms input lag on other 24" VAs). It doesn't have as good out-of-the-box color accuracy as the VX24 (which is pretty good in this category) but the low input lag makes it noticeably better for gamers. It doesn't have the same connectivity either.

 

[shabby]

Originally posted by: Deinonych
Even the best LCD displays are going to have less-than-optimal black levels. It's a shortcoming of the technology.

Plus input lag, slow response time.... when will all these things be fixed?
I hope my fw900 lasts a long time because i wont be switching to lcd anytime soon.

 

[CP5670]

Originally posted by: shabby

Originally posted by: Deinonych
Even the best LCD displays are going to have less-than-optimal black levels. It's a shortcoming of the technology.

Plus input lag, slow response time.... when will all these things be fixed?
I hope my fw900 lasts a long time because i wont be switching to lcd anytime soon.

I doubt they will ever be. LCDs at the high end have hardly improved at all in the last year or two. Average buyers have made it clear that they prefer cheap, low end monitors and are driving even the better LCDs out of the market.

OLED computer monitors are supposedly going to be mass produced in 2010, and my CRT will easily last until then.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Originally posted by: n7
LG L245WP/L246WP.

Two of my buds own it; i can't recommend it enough.

I have it and the visual quality is second to none that I've seen.

 

[Paladin]

Nice review up of the Sammy 245T on the main page here

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: xtknight
Based on generally positive subjective reviews here and elsewhere, I decided to recommend it after all. The ghosting issues don't seem that bad and I don't go off price that much, for my list. I was mainly concerned with the ghosting issues PRAD mentioned but these don't seem as bad (the HardForum thread shows the extent of the ghosting and it doesn't look like a serious impediment to me, not any more than a 50 ms input lag on other 24" VAs). It doesn't have as good out-of-the-box color accuracy as the VX24 (which is pretty good in this category) but the low input lag makes it noticeably better for gamers. It doesn't have the same connectivity either.

Please see my response about the 2470WNX in your LCD thread.

 

[lopri]

Originally posted by: n7
Yes it's P-MVA.

Not sure it'll be noticeably better than your current 2505, since your 2405 is S-PVA, right?

Apparently it has a buzzing issue if you lower brightness or something, but as long as you're getting it locally, you can always return/exchange.

I've always thought 2405FPW is a TN? Another big grrr being the lack of HDCP. :|

 

[Deinonych]

Got my replacement 2470WNX today. The replacement has no pixel defects, and it's absolutely gorgeous. I'm very happy with it. For what it's worth, I bought mine through Buy.com and I was very happy with their returns process. I didn't have to pay to ship back the defective unit, and they shipped out the replacement a few days after receiving it.

I'm looking forward to putting through the paces with some games over the next few days.