Any news on 20nm GPU's?
- Thread starter spat55
- Start date
There's kindof news:
http://wccftech.com/nvidia-maxwell-...eforce-800-series-arrives-2014/#ixzz2tKy20yWr
It's not confirmed that the Nvidia 800 series is 20nm, but there's pretty much no other reason they would wait until 2H 2014. The timing would be a pretty major coincidence given the state of TSMC's 20nm process.
No word at all I've seen on 20nm AMD.
http://wccftech.com/nvidia-maxwell-...eforce-800-series-arrives-2014/#ixzz2tKy20yWr
It's not confirmed that the Nvidia 800 series is 20nm, but there's pretty much no other reason they would wait until 2H 2014. The timing would be a pretty major coincidence given the state of TSMC's 20nm process.
No word at all I've seen on 20nm AMD.
- Jul 2, 2013
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Thanks, looking at it now. I have looked at TSMC's roadmap and I believe they are on mass production so I am having a long shot and guessing that their should be plenty of wafers to go around soon.
Stuka87
Diamond Member
- Dec 10, 2010
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You need to look into it further. They have different levels of 20nm. GPU's are among the most complex chips manufactured, and are always the last to finally be produced.
The vast majority of 20nm chips are going to phone manufacturers. I am standing by my 4Q14 prediction for 20nm GPU's. Although I could see a 3Q release happening if things go well.
know of fence
Senior member
- May 28, 2009
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TSMC's 20 nm isn't increasing density as much as the name suggests add to that the costs increase for the new process, and you get a wavy curve.
The chips are actually just as expensive to produce, so there is very little incentive to switch and cards are ridiculously expensive as it is. The slide is from ARM, but you see how the number of transistors a dollar can buy peeks at 28nm. (btw. 20 million a dollar, that's ~350 $ for a 780 ti GPU)
If transistors aren't getting cheaper in 2015 then neither are GPUs or GPU performance/$, unless we see some rabbit-out-of-the hat architecture improvements.
The chips are actually just as expensive to produce, so there is very little incentive to switch and cards are ridiculously expensive as it is. The slide is from ARM, but you see how the number of transistors a dollar can buy peeks at 28nm. (btw. 20 million a dollar, that's ~350 $ for a 780 ti GPU)
If transistors aren't getting cheaper in 2015 then neither are GPUs or GPU performance/$, unless we see some rabbit-out-of-the hat architecture improvements.
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NTMBK
Lifer
- Nov 14, 2011
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No, they don't have multiple different versions of 20nm. The high performance 20nm got canned, and the only version on offer is 20nm SoC.
Grooveriding
Diamond Member
- Dec 25, 2008
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I see 20nm GPUs arriving around the holidays of 2014, maybe even later. GPU manufacturers just don't have that kind of pull.
first maxwells 20nm do you think it will be a small die?
-amd going mid. size . should be faster
-year later big die maxwells
or first 20nm maxwells mid.size die to head off amd and gk110's
-then a year later the big dies.
-amd going mid. size . should be faster
-year later big die maxwells
or first 20nm maxwells mid.size die to head off amd and gk110's
-then a year later the big dies.
They will design the big die for hpc first and scale back from there.
I kind of have the feeling that amd will start with a similar die size to Hawaii and maybe force nvidia into releasing their big chips to gamers sooner. At least we can hope they do.
I kind of have the feeling that amd will start with a similar die size to Hawaii and maybe force nvidia into releasing their big chips to gamers sooner. At least we can hope they do.
KaRLiToS
Golden Member
- Jul 30, 2010
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I'm sure nVidia would like to get the Big Maxwell SoC out first for HPC, but I think it could go any direction really.
He means the 20 nm processors that TSMC is producing now.
What 20nm?There is no 20nm Graphic cards right now.
He means the 20 nm processors that TSMC is producing now.
What 20nm?
There are no 20 nm cards, but TSMC has begun 20 nm volume production. This means that is you send them a 20 nm design they can send back completed wafers. Of course, yields are probably below the economic threshold where profitable GPUs can be made.
I think Nvidia will release next batch of Maxwell GPU still on 28nm , They could probably pull off 860/870 ones w/o issue , not sure on 880 they might need 20nm for that one ,depending on core count .
BrightCandle
Diamond Member
- Mar 15, 2007
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Typically once a new process reaches volume we see the first graphics cards based on it about 5 months later. We don't know if AMD or NVidia bought early wafer starts for GPUs but its definitely possible we might see new 20nm GPU parts by June/July.
Piotrsama
Senior member
- Feb 7, 2010
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Yep, thats kind of why I regret selling my 7950 even though I made ~80 bucks on the deal. Ended up getting a used 780 because I just don't want to wait until 2015 to have a 'new' era gpu.
witeken
Diamond Member
- Dec 25, 2013
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Interesting, this slide implies that the A7's die costs 50$, which seems quite a lot. I wonder how everyone's going to improve performance if transistors will cost the same for the next 4 years or so. A 20nm GTX 780Ti equivalent could have 2 times as much transistors because of the higher density, but it would cost 2 times as much (>600$ for the die alone).TSMC's 20 nm isn't increasing density as much as the name suggests add to that the costs increase for the new process, and you get a wavy curve.
The chips are actually just as expensive to produce, so there is very little incentive to switch and cards are ridiculously expensive as it is. The slide is from ARM, but you see how the number of transistors a dollar can buy peeks at 28nm. (btw. 20 million a dollar, that's ~350 $ for a 780 ti GPU)
If transistors aren't getting cheaper in 2015 then neither are GPUs or GPU performance/$, unless we see some rabbit-out-of-the hat architecture improvements.
Edit: That graph implies that 16nm, which will compete against Intel's 10nm, will have a massive 3 node disadvantage against Intel at transistors/mm² (transistor/area or cost per transistor). Too bad Intel doesn't make GPUs.
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On the BOM of the 5S I saw had the A7 plus the extra M7 to cost around $18-19. That's the money that Apple is paying Samsung to fab the chips.
Here's the 5S teardown:
http://technology.ihs.com/451425/gr...m-and-manufacturing-cost-ihs-teardown-reveals
Gotta love that sweet sweet carrier subsidy cash.
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