Any new consoles on the horizon?

PeeluckyDuckee

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2001
4,464
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I want to get back into console gaming, but am reluctant to throw money into either a PS3 or Xbox 360 partially due to the reason of future software support. I realise its the games that make the console, not the other way around, but still I am interested in seeing what future hardware and technology brings.

What would you look foward to in upcoming consoles? LCD 3D integration into gaming?
 

Terzo

Platinum Member
Dec 13, 2005
2,589
27
91
I want to get back into console gaming, but am reluctant to throw money into either a PS3 or Xbox 360 partially due to the reason of future software support. I realise its the games that make the console, not the other way around, but still I am interested in seeing what future hardware and technology brings.

What would you look foward to in upcoming consoles? LCD 3D integration into gaming?

I think the next thing is 3d and motion controls. Natal for the xbox, and whatever the ps version is. I'm not particularly excited by either. Nintendo announced a "3ds" but it probably wont come out for a while.

Mind you I don't have much console experience. I've really only played 6 games (1 xbox, 2 ps2, 3 ps3). If you had asked me what I would improve with the xbox and ps2 I probably wouldn't have been able to say much. As far as I know all that's really changed has been increased graphics and performance. I suppose they have moved more towards multimedia capabilities, but I generally don't use those.
The funny thing is, as far as I was concerned the graphics for the xbox (specifically forza) and ps3 (shadows of the colossus, okami) were sufficient. The graphics today are clearly better, and I'm sure they can be improved upon, but I'm satisfied with the status quo.

Damn, you've really got me pondering. Let me ask you the same question; what do you look forward to in future consoles?
 

Tristicus

Diamond Member
Feb 2, 2008
8,107
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www.wallpapereuphoria.com
I want to get back into console gaming, but am reluctant to throw money into either a PS3 or Xbox 360 partially due to the reason of future software support. I realise its the games that make the console, not the other way around, but still I am interested in seeing what future hardware and technology brings.

What would you look foward to in upcoming consoles? LCD 3D integration into gaming?

PS3 is getting motion controls and 3D via firmware/hardware (buying the controls for motion and TV for 3D). Sony has a 10 year plan for the PS3 like their other consoles as well.
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
31,796
2
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PS3 is getting motion controls and 3D via firmware/hardware (buying the controls for motion and TV for 3D). Sony has a 10 year plan for the PS3 like their other consoles as well.

Unfortunately, some devs like the Heavenly Sword guys don't see 3D on the PS3 working for the big games like Killzone 2, Gran Turismo 5, God of War III, etc. Requires more horsepower than the PS3 has to output two HD screens which would be required. They say that the next generation of consoles will have the proper power under the hood to handle 3D.

Though we still need to see what the plans are from Sony.

Expect new consoles to be announced next year at E3 with releases in 2012.

There's also the question of cloud gaming from services like OnLive and Gaikai. That is if MS and Sony don't jump in as well.
 

Tristicus

Diamond Member
Feb 2, 2008
8,107
5
61
www.wallpapereuphoria.com
Unfortunately, some devs like the Heavenly Sword guys don't see 3D on the PS3 working for the big games like Killzone 2, Gran Turismo 5, God of War III, etc. Requires more horsepower than the PS3 has to output two HD screens which would be required. They say that the next generation of consoles will have the proper power under the hood to handle 3D.

Though we still need to see what the plans are from Sony.

Expect new consoles to be announced next year at E3 with releases in 2012.

There's also the question of cloud gaming from services like OnLive and Gaikai. That is if MS and Sony don't jump in as well.

I'm pretty sure the devs haven't tapped the full power of the PS3 yet. Guerilla said "well we can't do split screen on KZ2 because of system requirements", but I'm thinking if they took more time to optimize it, they could. RAM is the only limitation I see currently. I personally don't know if I'll jump on the bandwagon anyways, but we'll see what the future brings.
 

destrekor

Lifer
Nov 18, 2005
28,799
359
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Unfortunately, some devs like the Heavenly Sword guys don't see 3D on the PS3 working for the big games like Killzone 2, Gran Turismo 5, God of War III, etc. Requires more horsepower than the PS3 has to output two HD screens which would be required. They say that the next generation of consoles will have the proper power under the hood to handle 3D.

Though we still need to see what the plans are from Sony.

Expect new consoles to be announced next year at E3 with releases in 2012.

There's also the question of cloud gaming from services like OnLive and Gaikai. That is if MS and Sony don't jump in as well.

And frighteningly, those people have no clue what they are talking about.

No more horsepower is truly required to output to 3D compatible TVs if it is done correctly. A little more resources might be required but devs are constantly pulling new tricks to break previous barriers.
Remember, many games run at 30fps. Yet, the TV still displays them at 60hz (effective. Various display types use different refresh rates and specific styles, i.e. plasma). Insert copied frames here and there, i.e. what the technology is already doing, just bump it up for 60hz each eye.

The PS3 will have to use a 120hz signal, or whatever the specific 3DTV requires.
Some resources will be required to manipulate the image for each eye, and that all depends on what exactly has to be done. Sony could have some fancy tricks they could pull still with a new firmware, that helps allocate resources for that task without doing much negative.

Just like the games at the end of a console generation look insanely better than the early games, the first- and second-party devs will work with SCEI to wrangle out a few new development tricks.
Same with the 360, I'd imagine.
I honestly doubt this will be a serious problem.
It might come down to using new engines that don't have the same top-of-the-line flash. If that's the case, we won't see the games for a little while.
But honestly, I am expecting a few tricks to make it work. Depends on the type of 3D. Producing separate images distinct from each other for each eye, rendered slightly different and not just shifted, ala a dual-cam style? That might require some extra work. We'll see. They could do some more simple manipulation on-the-fly with a more minimal resource load. I don't know what those devs are cooking up.
Quite likely, Ninja Theory has no idea either. The first- and second-party devs, at least for Sony, work some serious magic between the respective houses.
 
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BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
81
And frighteningly, those people have no clue what they are talking about.

No more horsepower is truly required to output to 3D compatible TVs if it is done correctly. A little more resources might be required but devs are constantly pulling new tricks to break previous barriers.
Remember, many games run at 30fps. Yet, the TV still displays them at 60hz (effective. Various display types use different refresh rates and specific styles, i.e. plasma). Insert copied frames here and there, i.e. what the technology is already doing, just bump it up for 60hz each eye.

This is not true at all. It is absolutely not that simple.

In order to create the 3d effect, the entire scene has to be rendered from two different angles, corresponding to each eye. To do this at the same resolution and maintain the same frame rate as it was in 2d, you'd need exactly double the fill rate, and plenty of extra CPU resources to recalculate the polygon setup.

Basically, in order to make a 2d game into 3d using the same finite resources, theyd need to either halve the resolution or frame rate. This is why devs are saying it cant be properly done this generation. It *can* certainly be done, but there are going to be serious image quality sacrifices to make it happen. And there's basically no way around that - if theyre not rendering from two different angles, your eyes wont be fooled into seeing the 3d. Any trickery to get around that is either going to look worse than regular 2d, give you a headache, or both.
 
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BD2003

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
16,815
1
81
I'm pretty sure the devs haven't tapped the full power of the PS3 yet. Guerilla said "well we can't do split screen on KZ2 because of system requirements", but I'm thinking if they took more time to optimize it, they could. RAM is the only limitation I see currently. I personally don't know if I'll jump on the bandwagon anyways, but we'll see what the future brings.

RAM is actually a fairly minor limitation to split-screen, the CPU is more of the issue. Split-screen basically halves the resolution for each view, but those independent views require their own geometry setup, which creates a ton more work for the CPU and GPU shaders.

It's quite similar to what theyd need to pull off to show 3D...at half resolution.

3d and split screen are HUGE drains on resources - optimization can go only so far, and theyre already pushing the limits as is. Optimization cant make up for that without making cuts.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
I hate motion controls and I hate 3D. Sucks cus new consoles are going to have those exclusively.
 

herkulease

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2001
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3d gaming will be a novelty for sometime. We've barely switched to HD tvs. Only about half the households in the US have a HDTV.

its gonna be a few more years before there are enough 3d tvs in the home that developers even bother spending time and resource making 3d games.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
I hate motion controls and I hate 3D. Sucks cus new consoles are going to have those exclusively.

The second console users are forced to play only in 3D is the second I never buy another console. I'll stick to PC gaming exclusively then.
 

vshah

Lifer
Sep 20, 2003
19,003
24
81
3dgaming as is is kinda lame, but combine 3d with head tracking and some form of surround display, and holy crap, that would be awesome.
 

SR1729

Senior member
Jan 11, 2010
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And frighteningly, those people have no clue what they are talking about.

No more horsepower is truly required to output to 3D compatible TVs if it is done correctly. A little more resources might be required but devs are constantly pulling new tricks to break previous barriers.

Pot, meet kettle.

Are you a real game dev, or do you just play one on the Internet?
 

RedRooster

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2000
6,596
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3dgaming as is is kinda lame, but combine 3d with head tracking and some form of surround display, and holy crap, that would be awesome.

Once they start making the 10 foot wide curved tvs and consoles with enough power, that will be very cool.
But 3D on a 55" tiny tv(you need to cover your peripheral to make 3D worthwhile), is such a terrible fad. Watched some cartoon at Best Buy on one, it's like you're looking at a 3D flip book through a keyhole. Early adopters are gonna be let down.
The sad thing is, they'll add some stupid extra feature to the 3D version, and us "regular" tv players will be like the Wii players nowadays. Left behind technologically.
 

Blayze

Diamond Member
Feb 22, 2000
6,152
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The second console users are forced to play only in 3D is the second I never buy another console. I'll stick to PC gaming exclusively then.

I hope 3D only consoles do not happen. If they do I'll go back to PC gaming.
 

Queasy

Moderator<br>Console Gaming
Aug 24, 2001
31,796
2
0
I hope 3D only consoles do not happen. If they do I'll go back to PC gaming.

They won't. That would be like requiring everyone in the current generation to have a HDTV. Not going to happen because not everyone is going to have one.