Hey, just trying to get a feel as to where I want to go in my career. I have been at IBM for almost three years now and like my job and everything but I would like to get into system admin. right now I'm into the hardware side (the plant I work at builds Unix servers and I test them before shipment) I have a A+ cert. from Comptia and I got a Cisco CCNA about two years ago. I am interested in pursuing a Microsoft cert like maybe a MCSA or something but have heard all kinds of stories from good to bad so to all you MCSE's out there are you glad you got it?? does it help your job potential as much as you thought it would?? do you really use the things you learned??
Any MCSE's in the house?? and do you think it's worth the time??
- Thread starter Daxxax
- Start date
Nitemare
Lifer
- Feb 8, 2001
- 35,461
- 4
- 81
I have an MCSE in NT4. It opened a few doors for me.
Small world I work at Big Blue too.
Personally, If I were you I would try to be well rounded and not focus so much on microsoft. There are some certifications for linux and cisco as well...I would go for a couple of microsoft certs, your ccna, and some gnu certifications...throw in some programming languages..I prefer c++, java and html...but to each his own..and you are all set and highly marketable.
Small world I work at Big Blue too.
Personally, If I were you I would try to be well rounded and not focus so much on microsoft. There are some certifications for linux and cisco as well...I would go for a couple of microsoft certs, your ccna, and some gnu certifications...throw in some programming languages..I prefer c++, java and html...but to each his own..and you are all set and highly marketable.
JEDI
Lifer
- Sep 25, 2001
- 29,391
- 2,738
- 126
instead of going for a mcse, try and get a gov;t Top Secret rating. w/the emphansis on security nowadays, and the $ the gov't is throwing (billions), a Top Secret rating will get your hired. it doesnt matter if u dont know squat, they'll train you. it's the Top secret clearance they're after, not what you know.
Getting a Top secret clearance takes 6 months or more on avg. and probably longer now since so many applicants. Companies w/gov't contracts need bodies NOW else they can't make $ (or fulfill the contract).
Getting a Top secret clearance takes 6 months or more on avg. and probably longer now since so many applicants. Companies w/gov't contracts need bodies NOW else they can't make $ (or fulfill the contract).
I started at IBM years ago doing help desk work after college. I got my MCSE because I wanted to move on to doing sys admin work. It was one of the best decisions I've ever made career wise.
Took the MCSE diploma course, haven't Cert'd out.
Now Company is sending me to Novell, no more time to spend on MCSE.
MCSE provided me valuable groundwork knowledge on networks, but little real world skills. Learned that stuff on the job. It's one thing to do the books, another thing to Admin a real network. I wouldn't have gotten where I am today however, had I not taken the MCSE course. I'm glad I did.
Nitemare's right - get well rounded. Get a few MS certs, and then go for others. Novell, Linux, Oracle, programming languages. You've already got an excellent start. Full MS certification is a long haul, and it changes quickly. Good to have though. will certainly open a few doors. But it's what happens behind those doors that counts.
One of my MCSE instructors was a whiz - out tested, out scored all of his co-workers. He admitted though, after contracting a few network jobs that actually working in a real network was much different than the isolated test environment of the classroom.
If you're good at what you do, then a cert will help you - but won't make or break a deal. Unless you just haven't gotten cert'd cause you're lazy. Cargill, Honeywell, Children's Hospitals all used to accept only Cert'd applicants. Now many of them have set up test envirnoments to make sure the applicants hands on skills match the Certification stamp. Certainly a company would expect a rising star to pursue certification - but with the influx of the Dot.coms and overcertified/underqualified techs out there, it's the tech who can do the work that gets the worm.
I "did the work" and got my experience on the job. Was fortunate to have gone through the MCSE diploma course, was unfortunate to have such a time crunch and jump into another course before finishing Certing the first. But I wish I'd have started the "on the job" learning a year earlier instead of holding off to take the MCSE course. Time's change quickly, as well as certs.
Now my Boss resigned w/out notice and I'm the Network Admin. Another Cert wouldn't do me any good right now, but another year of work on the network under my belt would have made a world of difference. Am I going to get Certified? As soon as I am able. But I'm looking at Resume's right now for an Assistant Admin and Senior Technician. I've received a lot of Resume's. Enough that I can set aside the Certified's w/little/no experience and spend my time reading through the applicants that have some kind of experience listed, who can perform from day one - of course it'd be nice if they're certified, but not critical. I will require certification for continued employment with favorable promotions however. A standard that I intend to hold for myself.
Well, that's just one perspective. My $1.25. The gist is that Cert's alone get you nowhere. Experience alone completely depends on your skill level and personal marketing ability. Certification and Experience will most assuredly get you where you want to go in style, but it'll be a long hard road to get both.
Now Company is sending me to Novell, no more time to spend on MCSE.
MCSE provided me valuable groundwork knowledge on networks, but little real world skills. Learned that stuff on the job. It's one thing to do the books, another thing to Admin a real network. I wouldn't have gotten where I am today however, had I not taken the MCSE course. I'm glad I did.
Nitemare's right - get well rounded. Get a few MS certs, and then go for others. Novell, Linux, Oracle, programming languages. You've already got an excellent start. Full MS certification is a long haul, and it changes quickly. Good to have though. will certainly open a few doors. But it's what happens behind those doors that counts.
One of my MCSE instructors was a whiz - out tested, out scored all of his co-workers. He admitted though, after contracting a few network jobs that actually working in a real network was much different than the isolated test environment of the classroom.
If you're good at what you do, then a cert will help you - but won't make or break a deal. Unless you just haven't gotten cert'd cause you're lazy. Cargill, Honeywell, Children's Hospitals all used to accept only Cert'd applicants. Now many of them have set up test envirnoments to make sure the applicants hands on skills match the Certification stamp. Certainly a company would expect a rising star to pursue certification - but with the influx of the Dot.coms and overcertified/underqualified techs out there, it's the tech who can do the work that gets the worm.
I "did the work" and got my experience on the job. Was fortunate to have gone through the MCSE diploma course, was unfortunate to have such a time crunch and jump into another course before finishing Certing the first. But I wish I'd have started the "on the job" learning a year earlier instead of holding off to take the MCSE course. Time's change quickly, as well as certs.
Now my Boss resigned w/out notice and I'm the Network Admin. Another Cert wouldn't do me any good right now, but another year of work on the network under my belt would have made a world of difference. Am I going to get Certified? As soon as I am able. But I'm looking at Resume's right now for an Assistant Admin and Senior Technician. I've received a lot of Resume's. Enough that I can set aside the Certified's w/little/no experience and spend my time reading through the applicants that have some kind of experience listed, who can perform from day one - of course it'd be nice if they're certified, but not critical. I will require certification for continued employment with favorable promotions however. A standard that I intend to hold for myself.
Well, that's just one perspective. My $1.25. The gist is that Cert's alone get you nowhere. Experience alone completely depends on your skill level and personal marketing ability. Certification and Experience will most assuredly get you where you want to go in style, but it'll be a long hard road to get both.
<< instead of going for a mcse, try and get a gov;t Top Secret rating. w/the emphansis on security nowadays, and the $ the gov't is throwing (billions), a Top Secret rating will get your hired. it doesnt matter if u dont know squat, they'll train you. it's the Top secret clearance they're after, not what you know.
Getting a Top secret clearance takes 6 months or more on avg. and probably longer now since so many applicants. Companies w/gov't contracts need bodies NOW else they can't make $ (or fulfill the contract). >>
Actually XFILE,
Your statement is somewhat incorrect. Being that there are so many applicants for government contract work resultant from September 11th, your qualifications whether it's experience and or titles matter more than anything else. I held a Top Secret Clearance while in the Navy and have maintained my status in good standing. It would only take one month to reinstate my clearance. But, simply having the clearance doesn't give me an edge over anyone else, it's my skill set that's applicable. The government has the pick of the cream of the crop right now. Obtaining a clearance is simply a procedure. Obtaining the skill set is the necessity.
JEDI
Lifer
- Sep 25, 2001
- 29,391
- 2,738
- 126
Depends on the gov't contractor. i know someone who was hired (ex-military) just because he had a Top-secret. the company is going to send him to training. but based on what you're saying, he's the exception and not the rule.
But based on my experience of gov't contracting (6 years as an employee in 3 companies), i see companies hire unqualified people just to fill a slot, underpay him, and train him on the job just to churn in the $ even though the contract specifically says he must know this, and have that cert.
But based on my experience of gov't contracting (6 years as an employee in 3 companies), i see companies hire unqualified people just to fill a slot, underpay him, and train him on the job just to churn in the $ even though the contract specifically says he must know this, and have that cert.
Think I'm going to go for it. I enjoy IBM but I have no degree so Unless I get in a differnt department or get help from some manager types I won't be able to climb up much farther then I am. The jobs I would like to get into are all require at least a B.S. but I think they would overlook that if I had enough experenece and certs to go with it. thanks for the posts.
CrazyHelloDeli
Platinum Member
- Jun 24, 2001
- 2,854
- 0
- 0
Go for it dude! It worked wonders for me, and I have a good paying job at a Law Firm as a Sys admin because of it. Be warned though, 2K MCSE can be VERY difficult, but you can make it easier on yourself depending on what electives you choose. Its not a cake walk like NT4 MCSE was...Good Luck Bro!
rh71
No Lifer
- Aug 28, 2001
- 52,844
- 1,049
- 126
Real small world... I've been at Big Blue for 2 years now myself... web guy in Global Services/Service Delivery North.
My co-worker who's been here since 95 had only a 2-year degree till now. His skills were more important and what got him to where he is now... clearly a very dedicated worker and is awarded as such. New hires are req'd to have a 4-year degree, but if you're in, you're in...
Anyway, I would honestly say that the company really values self-improvement and education... even if they don't pay for it directly. I will go after IBM IT Specialist (non-exam) cert after I finish my CIW (web). My point is that it is definitely a huge plus in the eyes of your managers that you are improving upon your skills. You know the direction IBM is going with Linux, but the MS platform (as workstations) will be around for a while. MCSE in WIN2k is definitely a track to go for if you want to become a sys admin or a top guy in the MIS dept. It's either that or get your heads up on Linux now. I do agree with Sketcher about experience + certs vs. certs alone... but again... if you're in... you're in.
My co-worker who's been here since 95 had only a 2-year degree till now. His skills were more important and what got him to where he is now... clearly a very dedicated worker and is awarded as such. New hires are req'd to have a 4-year degree, but if you're in, you're in...
Anyway, I would honestly say that the company really values self-improvement and education... even if they don't pay for it directly. I will go after IBM IT Specialist (non-exam) cert after I finish my CIW (web). My point is that it is definitely a huge plus in the eyes of your managers that you are improving upon your skills. You know the direction IBM is going with Linux, but the MS platform (as workstations) will be around for a while. MCSE in WIN2k is definitely a track to go for if you want to become a sys admin or a top guy in the MIS dept. It's either that or get your heads up on Linux now. I do agree with Sketcher about experience + certs vs. certs alone... but again... if you're in... you're in.
Having a top secret clearance well pretty much put you ahead of most job applicants. A friend of mine, a Marine Staff Sergeant, told me that although he had little experience (only in the Marines), employers were willing to hire him just because of his clearance. They said that in a year's time he could learn as much as people who were more qualified but didn't have the clearance and they were willing to train.
rh71
No Lifer
- Aug 28, 2001
- 52,844
- 1,049
- 126
Bootcamps are really meant for those who are experienced enough already but need some brushing up. Employers may send their net techs to bootcamps just to get info-refreshed and certified in a short amount of time. If you are new to MCSE or networking, doing a bootcamp may get your certified, but you WILL NOT be able to prove your skills to a potential employer, especially in the long run. Do it the right way... study through hands-on and in many different environments and setups. 3 weeks will not allow you all this plus your ability to apply what you've learned in a real-world situation.
its not hard getting mcse.. i mean.. you can prolly take 4 weeks of self studying for all 7 exams....
but knowing the field is one thing....
but knowing the field is one thing....
You reap what you sow when it comes to the MCSE. Passing the tests is the least of your concerns. The most important thing is to get every_last_drop of knowledge you can from the process. Read Read Read. Practise Practise Practise. LEARN.
In my 2k class there were two types.
Type 1= People who thought the MCSE would land them a $60k job. They knew nothing about computers and quickly found themselves way over thier heads. To my knowledge, none of them are certified or employed in IT at this time (It's been 6 months since we finished).
Type 2= People who loved computers and wanted to make it thier life's work. There were only a few of these guys. We spent 12 hours a day in the lab and then went home to read for a few hours. It was an awsome time. Of these three guys one is working internal Exchange support for MS. The second is tech support at Roadrunner. I got a job at a big Canadian University on help desk / some server side stuff too.
The MCSE will get you an interview, but if you can't answer their questions employers are asking( and they will ask them, trust me) you won't get the job. Make yourself smart!
In my 2k class there were two types.
Type 1= People who thought the MCSE would land them a $60k job. They knew nothing about computers and quickly found themselves way over thier heads. To my knowledge, none of them are certified or employed in IT at this time (It's been 6 months since we finished).
Type 2= People who loved computers and wanted to make it thier life's work. There were only a few of these guys. We spent 12 hours a day in the lab and then went home to read for a few hours. It was an awsome time. Of these three guys one is working internal Exchange support for MS. The second is tech support at Roadrunner. I got a job at a big Canadian University on help desk / some server side stuff too.
The MCSE will get you an interview, but if you can't answer their questions employers are asking( and they will ask them, trust me) you won't get the job. Make yourself smart!
its not hard getting mcse.. i mean.. you can prolly take 4 weeks of self studying for all 7 exams
I dont now what self study course your talking about, Im in school now and we spend 6 weeks per cert 4 nights a week 5 hours a night and for me its not easy.. I have taken 3 of the certs so far and passed them all but its been hard work, lots of reading and lots of lab time.
maybe the self study course your talking about is to only pass the tests and not learn the subject??
I dont now what self study course your talking about, Im in school now and we spend 6 weeks per cert 4 nights a week 5 hours a night and for me its not easy.. I have taken 3 of the certs so far and passed them all but its been hard work, lots of reading and lots of lab time.
maybe the self study course your talking about is to only pass the tests and not learn the subject??
<<
maybe the self study course your talking about is to only pass the tests and not learn the subject?? >>
ding, ding, I'm guessing braindumps, or the odd chance that you are already a 2k admin and are spending that time learing microsoft's answers to the tests, unlikely though.
CrazyHelloDeli
Platinum Member
- Jun 24, 2001
- 2,854
- 0
- 0
<< its not hard getting mcse.. i mean.. you can prolly take 4 weeks of self studying for all 7 exams >>
Yes you can get an MCSE in four weeks studying brain dumps and whatnot, but you by no means know anything of value that will help you hold a job. Another thing ive noticed, is alot of know-it-all NT4 saying "Oh yeah, MCSE is cake and it means nothing" havew not taken the 2K exams which are considerably harder. I have been working in the IT field for about 7 years now and some of the 2K exams creamed me(Exchange 224 and Infrastructure 216). The rest I passed well but they were by no means "easy".
By "easy" I'm guessing they mean it's easy to memorize the braindumps and pass the exams. They aren't wrong, but guess what? People who take that route are exposed for what they are, eventually. Paper MCSE's.
I'm not saying don't use the dumps. They are helpful for passing the exams, no question. But like I said earlier, the exams are not the real focus. Learning your stuff is.
I'm not saying don't use the dumps. They are helpful for passing the exams, no question. But like I said earlier, the exams are not the real focus. Learning your stuff is.
<< You reap what you sow when it comes to the MCSE. Passing the tests is the least of your concerns. The most important thing is to get every_last_drop of knowledge you can from the process. Read Read Read. Practise Practise Practise. LEARN.
In my 2k class there were two types.
Type 1= People who thought the MCSE would land them a $60k job. They knew nothing about computers and quickly found themselves way over thier heads. To my knowledge, none of them are certified or employed in IT at this time (It's been 6 months since we finished).
Type 2= People who loved computers and wanted to make it thier life's work. There were only a few of these guys. We spent 12 hours a day in the lab and then went home to read for a few hours. It was an awsome time. Of these three guys one is working internal Exchange support for MS. The second is tech support at Roadrunner. I got a job at a big Canadian University on help desk / some server side stuff too.
The MCSE will get you an interview, but if you can't answer their questions employers are asking( and they will ask them, trust me) you won't get the job. Make yourself smart! >>
Hey a MCSE alone got you a $60k job?
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