Any Libertarians in the house

[SgtBuddy]

What is the down and dirty on Libertarianism?

Common knowledge is Dems are large govt, social programs, liberal. Reps are smaller govt, large military, global, conservative.

I am reading the Libertarian Party of Oregon's State of Principles now. It is a lot of legal goverment mumbo jumbo.

Couple things stood out

Legalize drugs, prostitution, and other fun stuff (Fun stuff is not to preclude that I, a witness to the harm drugs can do, will ever partake in such self-destructive activities)
Personal rights look to be very intact (Freedom of this and Freedon of that, etc)

Libers seem to be pretty gung ho on the whole get the govt outta my beeswax! No govt help for natural disasters. Let the insane go free as long as they don't hurt anyone. No laws requiring personal safety devices...helmets and belts. All sounds great, but when the first hurricane hits and you are out of home and medical care costs an arm and a leg cause no one wears seatbelts and ....

Sounds like a great place to live as long as everyone can handle some, dare I say, "freedom" from the government. I may be viewing this whole thing through blue tinted lenses.

 

[glen]

Wearing a seatbelt is a good thing.
But, what buisness does the Government have making people wear seatbelts?

 

[Stark]

My definition of a Libertarian is someone who thinks both democrats and republicans suck.

I'm starting to become one of them.

 

[rahvin]

You will also notice the ones that make taxes vollunatary and abolish the governments right to eminent domain.

 

[JellyBaby]

Libertarians simply want the feds out from where they don't belong. Pure libertarianism conflicts with reality where people actually want a bit of socialism (e.g. national disaster relief).

Personally, I feel our government has gone well beyond the Constitution in most areas and needs to be reigned in before we succomb to even more virtual slavery.

Rahvin, I believe, has it wrong when it states libbies are for voluntary taxes unless he means sales taxes, usary fees and tarrifs, which libbies prefer. It's just the federal income tax system that either needs to go or be greatly simplified to a more fair flat tax.

 

[Moonbeam]

I don't know but I tested 100% libertarian, 100% democrat, and 100% two other parties in a political test somebody posted. I was facinated how I got those scores. I voted to keep everything exactly as it is except decrease drug control because the test demanded that you vote to change at least one option. I conclude that Libertarians are completely happy with the status quo.

 

[JellyBaby]

I don't know but I tested 100% libertarian, 100% democrat, and 100% two other parties in a political test somebody posted.

That's bizarre. Do you live in Florida, perhaps in Dade County?

 

[43st]

The clearest parallel to Libertarianism is Nazism (post Hitler ascension). Remember that Nazism and Fascism were closely related after the rise of Hitler. Today Libertarianism seems to be the new Nazi party, meaning pro-business, anti-regulation, anti-state.

Look at it like this:

Fascism, Nazism, Libertarianism, right
---v.---
Socialism, Communism, left

I personally think that a balance between the two extremes is the only positive way for a society to live. I certainly think we all know what "extremists" can do to a culture.

 

[BDawg]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I don't know but I tested 100% libertarian, 100% democrat, and 100% two other parties in a political test somebody posted. I was facinated how I got those scores. I voted to keep everything exactly as it is except decrease drug control because the test demanded that you vote to change at least one option. I conclude that Libertarians are completely happy with the status quo.

Libertarian 37.0%
Left-liberal 17.9%
Centrist 29.7%
Right-Conservative 7.3%
Authoritarian 8.1%

 

[JupiterJones]

The clearest parallel to Libertarianism is Nazism (post Hitler ascension). Remember that Nazism and Fascism were closely related after the rise of Hitler. Today Libertarianism seems to be the new Nazi party, meaning pro-business, anti-regulation, anti-state.

The primary concern for Libertarians is personal liberty. Fascism is anathema to personal liberty.

 

[Johnnie]

i voted for Harry Browne

 

[glen]

Originally posted by: Thera
The clearest parallel to Libertarianism is Nazism (post Hitler ascension). Remember that Nazism and Fascism were closely related after the rise of Hitler. Today Libertarianism seems to be the new Nazi party, meaning pro-business, anti-regulation, anti-state.

Look at it like this:

Fascism, Nazism, Libertarianism, right
---v.---
Socialism, Communism, left

I personally think that a balance between the two extremes is the only positive way for a society to live. I certainly think we all know what "extremists" can do to a culture.

...uuuuhhh???
no.

 

[JellyBaby]

Originally posted by: Thera
The clearest parallel to Libertarianism is Nazism (post Hitler ascension). Remember that Nazism and Fascism were closely related after the rise of Hitler. Today Libertarianism seems to be the new Nazi party, meaning pro-business, anti-regulation, anti-state.

Look at it like this:

Fascism, Nazism, Libertarianism, right
---v.---
Socialism, Communism, left

I personally think that a balance between the two extremes is the only positive way for a society to live. I certainly think we all know what "extremists" can do to a culture.

Thera, you couldn't be more wrong. Nazism was about supreme state control over people. Libertarianism is about extreme individual liberty. They are polar opposites. Your scale should be more like:

(left) Communism, Nazism, fascism, socialism, liberalism, conservatism, libertarianism (right)

We're also mixing ideoligies with forms of government so this list isn't perfect.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Thera
The clearest parallel to Libertarianism is Nazism (post Hitler ascension). Remember that Nazism and Fascism were closely related after the rise of Hitler. Today Libertarianism seems to be the new Nazi party, meaning pro-business, anti-regulation, anti-state.

Look at it like this:

Fascism, Nazism, Libertarianism, right
---v.---
Socialism, Communism, left

I personally think that a balance between the two extremes is the only positive way for a society to live. I certainly think we all know what "extremists" can do to a culture.

Crack is bad, mm'kay?

Seriously, you know nothing of the Libertarian party. Or of Naziism it appears.
If Libertarians seem pro-business, it is because of their stance for personal liberty, and so they believe that people should have the right to make their own decisions and to buy and sell as they see fit. Naziism did not have this stance on business. As National Socialists, they virtually took over business, which means that, while they allowed private business to exist (unlike Communism), they made sure that the government was the primary customer in all concerns. Such is hardly a Libertarian stance. Indeed, Libertarians feels exactly the opposite of this and continually warn of how that exact same scenario is being cultivated within the US.
As for anti-regulation, anti-state, the Nazis were both pro-regulation and pro-state. Only Communism and Socialism can be considered more "pro-state" that Nazis. The primary difference in this attitude between Socialism and Naziism is that Socialism makes the State into some great nameless entity while Naziism characterizes the State with some great charismatic dictator. Once again, such a position is exactly opposite of Libertarian ideals, which proposes of very limited government of the people and for the people, and yet does not interfere with the lives and businesses of these law-abiding people.

Libertarians may be considered right-wing because of their pro-business stance (which I personally interpret as pro-economic freedom), but they can also be considered left-wing because they do not endorse the government-enforced morality stance that is typical and inherent of the right-wing (witnessed today as right-wing organization such as the "Christian Right" and "Pro-Life"). If Libertarians are "extremists," then it is only in their ideal of freedom for all people.
Some people, it is true, do not want to be free. With freedom, they know, comes the possibility of failure, of homelessness and starvation. Their lack of faith in themselves causes them to seek the safety of the nanny-state, aka left-wing Socialism. Others know that true freedom will prevent them from condemning the lifestyles and cultures of their neighbors, that it will make it impossible for them to inflict the rest of the world with their personal moral ideal. Their lack of faith in others causes them to seek the exclusitivity of Fascism.

Freedom, real freedom, is the Libertarian ideal. The freedom to do whatever you want as long as you do not harm a non-consenting other (murder, rape, and robbery are obvious crimes and Libertarians also believe in swift justice as well). Otherwise, you have the freedom to fail, the freedom to succeed, and (most important of all) the freedom to choose.

 

[Moonbeam]

Stark, I think you may be on to something. I think not only that Republicans and Democrats suck, but that Libertarians do too.

 

[JellyBaby]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Stark, I think you may be on to something. I think not only that Republicans and Democrats suck, but that Libertarians do too.

Well, Moonie, anything less than a state of all-knowing constant love aside the Creator is bound to be rather disappointing.

We use our free will and we make the best of things, sometimes a mess of things. Life is still pretty good from my perspective even though our government is slipping away from us more and more.

 

[Stark]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Stark, I think you may be on to something. I think not only that Republicans and Democrats suck, but that Libertarians do too.

I knew there had to be at least one thing we'd agree on.

Now, if you'd just start writing at a 6th grade level like the rest of us...

 

[Martin]

Some of their ideas seem ok, but for the most part they are like communists because it seems you'll have to change human nature for libertarianism to work. LOTS of people *want* the government to provide lots of services and to look after them to an extent.

 

[Moonbeam]

I don't know, Stark, it'll be several more years before I reach 6th grade.

Edited to remove the word matriculate.

 

[Martin]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Edited to remove the word matriculate.

That's a good start. Now try to integrate the words "stuff", "thing" and "like" into your posts more and you'll be halfway there. The final phrase will be forgetting about spelling, grammar and punctuation.

 

[Novgrod]

Some of their ideas seem ok, but for the most part they are like communists because it seems you'll have to change human nature for libertarianism to work. LOTS of people *want* the government to provide lots of services and to look after them to an extent.

The basis of communism is that you have a revolution, then you make all people equal to the state and equally paid which dissolves social differences. After that, there's no reason to disagree.

Libertarians fully recognize that people will disagree; it's just that they think disagreement is natural, and ends up in competition, which ends up benefitting all. The best explanation of this is in Adam Smith. Smith is often misquoted by people who want to support big business, but he really hates the factory owner; he wants the individual worker to benefit. If somebody PMs me with a request I'll dig up some quotes.

In case of the distant chance anyone wants to know my perspective, I'm all for individual liberty, which I interpret as being a very, very strict enforcement of antitrust regulations, and anything which infringes on the liberty of a different person. Otherwise, have at it.