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Any Lawyers here willing to answer a ? about an irrevocable wedding contract

C

Crucial

Diamond Member
I have a friend who is trying to cancel their wedding photographer. They told the photographer that they don't expect to get their deposit back but the photographer is saying that because they signed an irrevocable agreement(contract states this) that they are obligated to fulfill their end of the contact and will have to pay the full amount. Is this legal under the law? Would that be a state by state law or not?
 
Originally posted by: Crucial
I have a friend who is trying to cancel their wedding photographer. They told the photographer that they don't expect to get their deposit back but the photographer is saying that because they signed an irrevocable agreement(contract states this) that they are obligated to fulfill their end of the contact and will have to pay the full amount. Is this legal under the law? Would that be a state by state law or not?
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IANAL,

You agreed to the terms and agreements by signing, you pay unless there is a force majure (sp?) that you are covered.

Of course it's legal.
 
I can certainly sympathise with the photographer. Wedding photogs are booked many months in advance, so your friend really fucked her by cancelling a booking where it's highly unlikely she'll be able to fill that spot.

Anyway, I don't see why you'd need a lawyer if it was stated explicitly in the contract. You can't go crying to your lawyer every time you sign something without reading it and get fucked by it.
 
I guess a better question would be what is the legal meaning of irrevocable as it pertains to this type of contract. Does it mean the purchaser is not entitled to a refund of any monies paid? Or are they bound to pay the full amount regardless of the outcome? Would this need to be stated on the contract specifically? I know this is ATOT and the holier than thou will come out in force. I'm not asking about the "ethical" thing to do.

People cancel weddings all the time and they don't pay the vendors in full. Is that because the vendors don't state it as an irrevocable agreement on certain contracts? Typically they will forfeit the deposit and maybe get some of it back depending on how far out the cancellation is.
 
Originally posted by: Crucial
Is this legal under the law? Would that be a state by state law or not?
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The common law is not entirely insensitive to the offeree?s predicament. The rule that the acceptance is effective upon dispatch creates a situation in which the offeror who wishes to revoke his offer is uncertain whether or not he can still do so, since his revocation is not effective until receipt, whereas the offeree?s acceptance, if one is made, takes effect on dispatch. This uncertainty makes the consequences of an attempted revocation unpredictable and thereby inhibits an offeror who might otherwise seek to revoke.


in other words.... why are they cancelling the photog?

if they're cancelling because they found someone cheaper... dick move.. pay up.



 
i'm not yours or anyone else's lawyer, and my posting the following blurb does not constitute an attorney-client relationship between me and you or whoever you are asking on behalf of. i'm not licensed in wisconsin and not qualified to give legal opinion there, my knowledge is based on what i know of texas law in specific and the common law of contracts in general.

'irrevocable' doesn't really mean anything. if your friend cancels and the photographer can't mitigate by finding other work that weekend, your friend is liable for the damages. which would be the photographer's lost profits from the contract. some contracts may have a clause in them that say if the cancellation is before so many days ahead of the event, then only the deposit is kept. doesn't sound like this is one of those.

contract law is state by state, but 99% of contract law is going to be the same from state to state.

if irrevocable means that the photographer is not supposed to mitigate damages starting when revocation is received, that is likely against public policy and an unenforceable term. more likely, the photographer drafted the contract without the help of a lawyer and thought the term sounded good.
 
They are canceling due to unforeseen financial troubles. They are having a family member do the pictures as they are still getting married but had to cut down on a lot of expenditures.
 
Is there any specific mention in the contract that your friend is still obligated to pay the photographer the full amount, even if he cancels or is the photographer trying to say that by merely having the word "irrevocable" in of contract, it means the same thing?

I feel that if the photographer is worried about people canceling, he needs to collect a bigger deposit.
 
IANAL, but outside of the law, irrevocable means just that -- he can't refuse to take the pics at the time and place agreed upon, no matter what; and your friend can't refuse to pay him the full amount promised, no matter what. But I guess you knew that much . . . <shrug>

I imagine your legal answer depends a lot on how tightly worded the contract the photog is calling "irrevocable" is. If he got a lawyer to write, your friend is probably on the hook for the full amount.
 
The contract states "The retainer is not refundable if your event is cancelled. The deposit can be transferred to a different date if the photographer(s) are available and agreed upon."

Beyond that there is nothing stating anything about what happens if the services are canceled. The contract starts with "This constitutes an irrevocable agreement for photography services"
 
Originally posted by: Crucial
The contract states "The retainer is not refundable if your event is cancelled. The deposit can be transferred to a different date if the photographer(s) are available and agreed upon."

Beyond that there is nothing stating anything about what happens if the services are canceled. The contract starts with "This constitutes an irrevocable agreement for photography services"
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Probably shouldn't have signed without a cancellation clause.
 
The "irrevocable" part implies that you're committing to the service, and there's no backing out. Worded loosely, I know, but I hate to say it... if this goes to court, the photographer could probably win it.
 
A lawyer would need to know your state and see the entire contract. If the contract is irrevocable, that doesn't mean the other parts of the contract mandate full payment even if you decide you don't want the photographer to show up. You might be screwed, but not necessarily.
 
Originally posted by: ElFenix
'irrevocable' doesn't really mean anything. if your friend cancels and the photographer can't mitigate by finding other work that weekend, your friend is liable for the damages.

how far out from the wedding are we talking?
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^ this. The sooner your friend cancels, the greater the likelyhood the photographer can book that date for another wedding which gets your friend off the hook for the balance. Him suing and collecting is another matter especially if the couple has financial problems.

The family member doing the wedding pictures may come back to haunt them.

 
Originally posted by: alrocky
Originally posted by: ElFenix
'irrevocable' doesn't really mean anything. if your friend cancels and the photographer can't mitigate by finding other work that weekend, your friend is liable for the damages.

how far out from the wedding are we talking?
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^ this. The sooner your friend cancels, the greater the likelyhood the photographer can book that date for another wedding which gets your friend off the hook for the balance. Him suing and collecting is another matter especially if the couple has financial problems.

The family member doing the wedding pictures may come back to haunt them.
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DO NOT HAVE A FAMILY MEMBER DO THEM. really don't pay the m oney to have a pro come in.


the advice they are giving is great. cancell early it gives the guy time to find a replacment for you. IF he does not and try's to sue for the full amount he shouldnt get that either. he should only be able to sue for the "profit" not the cost of equipment.


 
Originally posted by: Crucial
The contract states "The retainer is not refundable if your event is cancelled. The deposit can be transferred to a different date if the photographer(s) are available and agreed upon."

Beyond that there is nothing stating anything about what happens if the services are canceled. The contract starts with "This constitutes an irrevocable agreement for photography services"
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Well there's your loophole. Tell him it's canceled and set another date far into the future. Or if you know someone else that needs a photographer use him for that event instead.
 
Originally posted by: JTsyo
Originally posted by: Crucial
The contract states "The retainer is not refundable if your event is cancelled. The deposit can be transferred to a different date if the photographer(s) are available and agreed upon."

Beyond that there is nothing stating anything about what happens if the services are canceled. The contract starts with "This constitutes an irrevocable agreement for photography services"
Click to expand...

Well there's your loophole. Tell him it's canceled and set another date far into the future. Or if you know someone else that needs a photographer use him for that event instead.
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Yep, reschedule for 10 years from now. 🙂
 
Originally posted by: Crucial
They are canceling due to unforeseen financial troubles. They are having a family member do the pictures as they are still getting married but had to cut down on a lot of expenditures.
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I think your friend is SOL, but I'm certainly not a lawyer.
 
I agree with ElFenix, contract law can vary from state to state, even though it's usually very similar.

The contract is more than likely written from a template or even just written by a layman instead of a lawyer. You'd have to have a lawyer review it for your friends to see where they stand, but I would imagine they might be on the hook for the profit the photog would have expected to make on the gig, not the whole cost of the service. The contact can say anything, but the reality is that the laws of the state will determine what your obligations really are. Something like "irrevocable" might sound good to us laymen, but it probably doesn't mean squat legally. Your friend needs to consult a lawyer, you should be able to set up a session for free or a small fee.
 
I just wouldn't pay it. If he wants to go through the trouble of small claims court, deal with it then.
 
How much time in advance of the wedding is the cancellation, and how long ago was the photographer booked?

I figure in court it would make a difference if its canceled days before the wedding, not allowing the photographer to mitigate his losses, as well as if it was booked recently but isn't going to be done for a while, he'd have plenty of time to mitigate losses.
 
Originally posted by: theflyingpig
What the fuck is the point of a deposit if the 'contract' makes them pay the full amount anyway?
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One: time to save funds if needed and Two: to renegotiate if the services were lacking.

Most contracts for services give you a narrow window to cancel prior to full monies being due whether or not the service is requested.
 
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