Any good 21" Monitors that come in black?

[MTDEW]

Finding 21" monitors isn't a problem.
But Finding a black/flat 21" incher is driving me nuts!

Anyone have a black 21 incher theyd like to reccomend OR warn me not to buy?

Or even links to reviews would be helpful, I'm in no hurry, I will search until I find the "right" one!

And b4 someone suggests painting a white one black, I did that to my old monitor & it did turn out really nice, but I had to always worry about scratching it & trying to sell a painted monitor to raise funds for a new one can be a bit difficult.

Price range will be around $1000.00 or less.

 

[John]

I have a BLACK Dell P1110 21" FD Trinitron. I ordered it with my i8000 notebook. Image quality is truly amazing, and I am 100% satisfied with the fact I only paid 760.00 shipped. I am also using a Hercules GF2 GTS Pro....the 2d is super crisp !

I went thru (2) KDS AV-21TF monitors before I bought this one. Both of them had a terrible blurr at 1280x1024 85Hz & 1600x1200. I bought the initial one from Onvia (drop ship from Ingram Micro) the beginning of Nov 2000, and the next day I asked for a replacement since it was blurry as hell. I even tried the BNC connection to no avail. The second one was just as bad. I would avoid them like the plague.

 

[SendTrash]

Hey, I am also looking for a black monitor to match my case. Are there any 17 or 91 flat Monitors?

 

[LXi]

Nevermind, didnt see the word black.

I would recommend IBM FD Trinitron series for a black 21".

 

[Spook]

Viewsonic makes several... Look for the P/N with a B at the end... like PF790B...

 

[Biggs]

LXI, does the Samsung 1200NF come in black colors?

 

[LXi]

Nope.

 

[Biggs]

One more question, Mr. LXI, if the Sony G500 and Samsung 1200NF were equally priced, which one would you take home on a cold Sunday morning?

 

[LXi]

Its definitely a hard choice, but I'll have to ask my wallet that same question. If my wallet is tight I'd get the Samsung, if I can afford either one then its a toss up.

 

[BDawg]

The IBM professional series Trinitron monitors are awesome!

 

[Oyeve]

How about some black spaypaint?

 

[Gosharkss]

Black Monitors

Just a note on black monitors, Many companies do not produce black monitors because they cannot meet the new TCO ergonomic requirements. I'm not absolute certain however I believe it has to with the contrast of a white screen image next to a black bezel creates some sort of eye strain during long periods of use.

For Example: The IBM P260 pearl white is TCO-99 compliant, the stealth black version is not.

Good Luck

Jim at http://www.monitorsdirect.com

 

[MTDEW]

Gosharkss,
That info really strikes me as strange.
When viewing a black monitor Ive found I'm more likely to concentrate on the image & hardly notice the edges of the monitor out of the corner of my eye.

Whereas when viewing a white monitor after using a black one for so long, I seem to notice the white edges more in my peripheral vision & it seems a bit distracting & not as immersive when playing games.

Oh well, guess you learn something new every day.

I still want a black one though.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone care to comment on just how distracting they feel the lines are on an aperature grill display?
I am the type of person that something like that may drive me nuts.

Also are Aperature Grill displays worth the extra cost for a home system thats used solely for entertainment & web browsing?

Also, just how much superior is the image quality of an aperature grille over a shadow mask display? Is the difference HUGE?

 

[Gosharkss]

I agree, at first I would have thought the same thing. However I'm certain that TCO has done some studies on the subject and have concluded differently. I will try to do some research on the subject and post anything I find.

I have been in the middle of some discussions about Shadow mask vs. Aperture grill monitors. This is a very religious subject and people on this and other forums have strong opinions on the subject. I would say that both technologies have advantages and disadvantages. The major difference is in the electronics driving the CRT the deflection yoke design and the quality of the design and the manufacturing process.

I always say, never trust general statements like "aperture grill monitors are clearer and brighter the shadow mask monitors". Every unit produced is unique and, like fingerprints, no two are identical. Even the highest quality monitors occasionally don't perform as promised.

Monitor buyers should be concerned about the quality of the monitor. Unfortunately sometimes it is difficult to determine any given model's quality before making a purchase. Shopping in a retail establishment allows you to see the monitor, but a retail floor is an extremely rough on monitors, they can quickly get out of adjustment and are typically displayed with harsh lighting and splitter boxes that makes it difficult to evaluate the video quality. In addition you are unlikely to find the higher end models in retail establishments. Buying over the Internet is also difficult requiring that the purchase be made sight unseen based purely on a list of specifications.

Whether you are buying in a retail environment, you evaluate monitors for your company or you buy over the Internet, the best way to determine monitor quality is to ask questions like you are doing here.

While dot pitch, resolution and refresh rates are all-important aspects of selecting a monitor, even monitors with similar specifications can have dramatically different image quality. In my opinion, Convergence is one of the most important specifications to consider. Convergence is the measure of alignment of the monitor's three colored beams (red, blue and green). A low convergence specification means that the odds are that images will appear sharper. If the monitor manufacturer doesn't publish their convergence specifications, call tech support and ask.

 

[Gosharkss]

I found the following info on the TCO requirements. Go to the following link

http://www.tco-info.com/products.htm

Click on the "Displays(CRT)" button. Look at section 1.6 of the TCO requirements it talks about Front frame reflectance and gloss. The reason for this standard according to the requirements document is "The front frame reflectance and gloss influence visual comfort and legibility".

 

[MTDEW]

Wow Gosharkss!

Youre really starting to go over my head on this subject.

I'm certainly glad you answered this thread & hope you can keep offering advice until I find a good monitor.


What dot pitch,Max resolution/refresh rate & convergence specs do you feel are needed to consider a monitor a QUALITY product?

You wanna reccomend some monitors you would buy? White or Black/ In my price range
So I can have some frame of reference of what specs to look for.

What namebrand/model# do you own?

I know I'm asking alot of you here, but as you can see, Ive been using a Proview 19"
& Im tired of feeling like I'm missing something in image quality as Proviews are generally considered "generic".

Also, am I to conclude that even the EXACT same make & model can differ in image quality due to poor manufacturing standards?

What do you think of these?

IBM P260

Dell P1110

Or you can just tell me what to buy!

 

[Gosharkss]

Sorry I go overboard sometimes. Did not mean to overwhelm you. Here I go again.

Fist please note that I work for Cornerstone and any recommendation that I make would be biased towards my products, so I make it a point never to recommend specific models or manufacturers. I have put together a monitor selector tool that may help you. See the following link.

http://www.monitorsdirect.com/shopping_tools/monitorselector.html

Most people would agree that the tighter the dot pitch the better. The lower the convergence specs the better.

I always recommend at least 85Hz refresh rate at all resolutions you plan on using.

Resolution kind of depends on the monitor. Resolution is dependent upon the horizontal scan frequency of the monitor. Also there is a direct correlation between HSF and price. As the HSF goes up, the resolution capability goes up and so does the price. For example:

A monitor with a 70 - 85Khz HSF is optimized for 1024 x 768 at 85Hz
A monitor with a 92-97Khz HSF is optimized for 1280 x 1024 at 85Hz
A monitor with a 107 - 110Khz HSF is optimized for 1600 x 1200 at 85Hz

For the record, I use a Cornerstone p1700 running 1856 x 1392 at 85Hz on my primary machine, A Cornerstone p1460 running 1600 x 1200 at 85Hz on my development machine. And I have copies of almost all of the major brand models in my laboratory.

The reason I say that monitors vary is simple. Unlike many electronic devices, Monitor assembly and alignment is mostly a manual process. Since humans do most of the aligning, variation is inevitable. For example: The training of the operator adjusting convergence varies person to person. For the most part when you purchase a monitor or any other electronic device, what you are really buying is the company that sold it to you. What I mean by that is, No matter what brand you want to buy, call or e-mail the manufacturers and resellers tech support line before you give them your credit card number. First, time how long it takes you to reach a human. You don't want to sit on hold; you want to talk to knowledgeable people. Ask some basic questions about the monitor you are interested in. This will give you a good indication of the support you will get should something go wrong after the purchase.

Some sample questions:

Who makes the CRT in model # XYZ?
Even in branded products you may be very surprised to find out who manufactured the most important component of the monitor. This is the #1 way some manufacturers cut corners to cut cost. BTW I use Hitachi CRT's in all my products except my c910, it uses a Samsung CRT.

As I said before, what is the Convergence specification? Convergence is one of the most important aspects in determining the sharpness of the screen image.

How long is the warranty period? This can very by make and model. Some manufacturers offer 5 year warranties.

Do you have an extended warranty option? Companies with low confidence in their product line tend to charge higher prices for enhanced warranties.


Good Luck

Jim Witkowski
Chief Hardware Engineer
Cornerstone / Monitorsdirect.com

 

[MTDEW]

THANK YOU Gosharkss!

I doubt I'll need any luck on my side with all of the info you've provided.

I'm on my way to the Monitor selector now.

 

[Smbu]

I haven't used it, but the IBM P260 black monitor (21" FD Trinitron)looks pretty good. I have a black IBM P96 (19" FD Trinitron) and it's great. The P96 is much better than my old CRT 17" monitor. The P96 is able to do 1600x1200 at 85Hz, so the P260 should be able to handle it fine, too. Here is a link to the black P260 at IBM's website.

 

[LXi]

Let there be no doubt, Gosharkss(hey I like the Sharks too) is the most knowledgable person about monitors on this forum. I find it amusing that such a highly positioned person like you, would visit Anandtech forums and help ordinary people out in expense of your valuable time.

 

[Gosharkss]

Thank you for the compliment! I enjoy helping people, and it really does not take much time at all. I have written many white papers and compiled a monitor database on these subjects so the information I have is readily available to me.


Jim

 

[LXi]

Since you're from Cornerstone, I'd like to ask you a few things. You mentioned above Cornerstone exclusively use Hitachi tubes(with one exception of Samsung), does that mean Hitachi makes shadow mask tubes with the best focus, sharpness and convergence? And what about the Samsung tubes? Does Cornerstone have any plans to adapt Hitachi's and/or Samsung's respective flat tube technolgy? And why doesn't Cornerstone make any monitors based on Sony's or Mitsubishi's aperture grille tubes?

 

[Gosharkss]

No Problem, I use Hitachi tubes primarily because I believe based on my research and experience that the Hitachi tubes are some of the best performing tubes out there. Remember that even the best tube matched with poor electronics will not perform as advertised. Also it is no secret that Hitachi in fact assembles my professional line of monitors. And we are very proud of that fact.

We OEM our monitors just like ViewSonic, Dell, Compaq, etc. None of these companies actually manufacture their monitors. In fact even Hitachi and Sony OEM some of their models from other manufacturers. What do you get when you purchase a Dell computer? A CPU made by Intel, A hard drive made by Quantum or Seagate, Memory chips by NEC or Rambus, Software from Microsoft, etc you get the point. What does Dell actually manufacture? Not much, they simply put the pieces together.

I cannot comment specifically on Hitachi products. As an OEM I write the specifications for Cornerstone monitors and Hitachi builds them to my specifications. I work with the engineering team in Yokohama, inspect the factories and review Q.A processes. Jim over 50K miles traveled last year to Japan, Taiwan, China, Philippines, and Thailand.

I freely publish my specifications because I believe mine are some of the best in the industry, you would have to ask Hitachi what their specifications are. For some reason they seem to think that specs like convergence are proprietary. So does everyone else except ViewSonic.

I cannot comment on future products, we have recently introduced our new p1450 and p1460 19" monitors using the Hitachi flat CRT. All I can say at this point is pay attention over the next year we will be introducing new products as we do all the time. You may be surprised.

Cornerstone has been in business for over 15 years. We started out designing video cards and gray scale monitors. Our market has historically been large fortune 500 corporations doing document imaging. This is why many people have never heard of Cornerstone. Document imaging users look at scanned in documents 8 hours a day, this is also where our scale to gray technology fit in. Document imaging is a very text based application, requiring monitors with sharp focus thus our customers needed fine pitch shadow mask monitors.

Last January we launched MonitorsDirect.com to expand into what I call a more general market. We recognize the facts that we like other companies need to expand into different markets. Again pay attention.

Jim

 

[LXi]

I dont understand why Cornerstone created monitorsdirect.com. Doesnt that serve Cornerstone counterproductively? How do you generate revenue by selling monitors made by your competitors?

Oh yea, and why the Samsung tube?

 

[fir3wir3]

www.thortek.com has all the black components you can imagine

and if they dont have it email them they'll help ya