Any GeForce 660/660 Ti Speed Theories?

[The_Golden_Man]

Ya, crippled on both sides. Probably meant to be an HD7850/7870 competitor for the non-Ti.

If 192Bit Buswidth, how to you think it will stack up to 7850/7870?

 

[SirPauly]

Good finds in this thread, thanks!

 

[SirPauly]

The GK-104 really reminds me of the G-92.

 

[SirPauly]

Just a thought: The GK-104 core may have price-point sku's from 999 to 249.

 

[Silverforce11]

This is all Apple and Qualcomm's fault. Ofc TSMC is to blame too. Can't leave those guys out.

ps. If the 660ti has 256 bit bus, it should be ~10-15% behind gtx670 due to shaders being cut (1152?). 660 with the neutered bus as well would be ~25% behind. Thats my guesstimate.

 

[RussianSensation]

If 192Bit Buswidth, how to you think it will stack up to 7850/7870?

I think NV will have to be slightly faster than 7870 and 7950. They have had 5-6 months of time to see how both perform. No reason why they shouldn't have faster cards. Once overclocking is taken into account though, I don't think GTX660Ti will be able to beat an overclocked 7950. Personally, I wouldn't spend above $180 for any card with less than 2GB of VRAM at this point.

1.28-1.5GB is borderline sufficient right now in some newer games and once you turn MSAA, it can exceed this easily:

Sure, people aren't going to be using a $200-250 GPU for 2560x1600 but even next generation games might come dangerously close to using up > 1.5GB of VRAM even at 1080P + MSAA. Also, making the mistake of buying 8800GTS 320mb, I won't make it again. If 2 GPUs perform within 5-10% of each other, I'll buy one with more VRAM to be on the safe side.

Although some games pre-cache textures into memory which makes it difficult to measure which games actually need > 1.5GB of memory (SKYRIM) and which games use up memory if it's there but still run smoothly even with less memory (BF3).

 

[tviceman]

If the gtx660ti is a 256-bit 6smx part, it will have really good performance. If it's a 192-bit 2gb part, it's going to have good performance, but under scrutiny will probably be slightly poor performance and not any better than the 192-bit 1.5gb part. So my price guesses are: if the 660ti is 256-bit, then it will be $319 IF the gtx670 stays at $399. If the gtx670 drops in price by $20-30, then it will be $300. If the 660ti is 192-bit, then it will be $299. The vanilla 660 will be $249 if it's 1.5gb, $279 if it's 2gb.

 

[RussianSensation]

tviceman, those are very good guesses I would say. :thumbsup:

 

[piesquared]

I think NV will have to be slightly faster than 7870 and 7950. They have had 5-6 months of time to see how both perform. No reason why they shouldn't have faster cards. Once overclocking is taken into account though, I don't think GTX660Ti will be able to beat an overclocked 7950. Personally, I wouldn't spend above $180 for any card with less than 2GB of VRAM at this point.

1.28-1.5GB is borderline sufficient right now in some newer games and once you turn MSAA, it can exceed this easily:

http://gamegpu.ru/images/stories/Test_GPU/Action/Battlefield%203%20Close%20Quarters/test/b3%20vram.png
[IMG]http://gamegpu.ru/images/stories/Test_GPU/Action/Battlefield%203%20Close%20Quarters/test/b3%20vram%204x.png
[IMG]http://gamegpu.ru/images/stories/Test_GPU/Action/Medal%20Of%20Honor%20Warfighter%20alfa/foto/test/moh%20vram%20u.png
[IMG]http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph5625/44629.png
[IMG]http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph5625/44628.png

Sure, people aren't going to be using a $200-250 GPU for 2560x1600 but even next generation games might come dangerously close to using up > 1.5GB of VRAM even at 1080P + MSAA. Also, making the mistake of buying 8800GTS 320mb, I won't make it again. If 2 GPUs perform within 5-10% of each other, I'll buy one with more VRAM to be on the safe side.

Although some games pre-cache textures into memory which makes it difficult to measure which games actually need > 1.5GB of memory (SKYRIM) and which games use up memory if it's there but still run smoothly even with less memory (BF3).[/QUOTE]

Club3D's 1GB 7850 does very well up to 1920x1200 and only starts to hit the limits at 2560x1600 in some games where a more powerfull card would be required anyway. There are some comprimises at ultra high resolutions but for $189.00, it's a great card for a large chunk of the market.

[quote]The Club3D HD 7850 RoyalQueen comes with only 1 GB memory, whereas most other HD 7850 cards on the market have 2 GB. When I first got the card, I was extremely sceptical whether such capacity could provide enough performance for the latest and greatest titles. Now, after finishing the review, I am impressed. At resolutions up to, and including, 1920x1200, the card is just as fast as the HD 7850 with 2 GB, if not a little bit faster. Only at resolutions of 5760x1080 (Eyefinity), and at 2560x1600 in some games, did we see a performance penalty from the smaller frame buffer. Personally, I don't consider this an issue, because a single HD 7850 is just too slow for these resolutions anyway.
The card not only is fast, but also has a great cooling system. We see significantly reduced noise levels from the card, which means it could be used in a media PC that supports full HD gaming. Temperatures are great too, lower than those of many other "big" HD 7850 cards. Thanks to the lower memory density, power consumption is also down, especially during desktop work. In 3D, we see similar power consumption as the 2 GB reference design, which could be explained by the use of a more cost-effective VRM design. This also means that the voltage controller has no support for software voltage control, but this is not that big a deal in this market segment.
GPU overclocking works great, better than that in many other HD 7850 cards. Our manual overclocking yielded an extra 27% real-world performance, putting the card on the same performance level as NVIDIA's GeForce GTX 580, just a bit lower than HD 7950. Memory overclocking doesn't do so well, because Club3D chose Elpida memory chips which are slightly cheaper, but do not offer as much overclocking potential as chips from Samsung or Hynix.
Club3D's cost savings measures are reflected in the consumer price, which is $195 when converted from euros to dollars, as the card is only available in Europe at this time. A typical 2 GB HD 7850 costs $230 and won't be faster at full HD resolutions. In terms of price/performance the HD 7850 RoyalQueen is the fastest upper mid-range card on the market today, by a quite big margin. For a serious gamer on a budget, lacking enough money for a GTX 670, this is definitely the card to get. I would certainly I would recommend it to my friends.[/quote]

[url]http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Club_3D/HD_7850_RoyalQueen/33.html[/url]

 

[ocre]

that 1gb 7850 review is very interesting

 

[AtenRa]

My prediction is,

256bit memory for the 660Ti (GK104) and 192bit memory for the 660(GK106).

660Ti will compete against the HD7870 at $300. It will be faster and will force the HD7870 to drop bellow the $300 mark.

 

[RussianSensation]

660Ti will compete against the HD7870 at $300. It will be faster and will force the HD7870 to drop bellow the $300 mark.

HD7870 has long dropped past $300 in North America. It's HD7950 cards that are in the $310-330 category GTX660Ti will have to deal with.

There is no way HD7870 will be a competitor to the GTX660Ti since you can already find some versions for $260-270 no problem and if you look hard enough, even under $250. And these aren't budget versions either. Here is MSI TwinFrozr Ghz 7870 for $260.

HD7970 GE versions are going to take up $460+ price level, pushing HD7970 to $400 or below. That means HD7950 will be moving towards $300 mark soon, and become the primary competitor for the GTX660Ti.

 

[moonbogg]

They are just moving the Gk104 down to the mid range price it was supposed to be at and in the process making room for the real Kepler cards to occupy the empty $400-$600 price slots. This is why 670 was barely slower than 680 and why 660 will barely be slower than 670. The 660ti will be the only gk104 that makes any sense to buy, and the real 670/680 will release a bit later to occupy the high end like the were supposed to.

 

[AtenRa]

HD7870 has long dropped past $300 in North America. It's HD7950 cards that are in the $310-330 category GTX660Ti will have to deal with.

There is no way HD7870 will be a competitor to the GTX660Ti since you can already find some versions for $260-270 no problem and if you look hard enough, even under $250. And these aren't budget versions either. Here is MSI TwinFrozr Ghz 7870 for $260.

HD7970 GE versions are going to take up $460+ price level, pushing HD7970 to $400 or below. That means HD7950 will be moving towards $300 mark soon, and become the primary competitor for the GTX660Ti.

Well, im taking the official AMD pricing.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6093/...price-cuts-inbound-7970ge-available-next-week

 

[RussianSensation]

They are just moving the Gk104 down to the mid range price it was supposed to be at and in the process making room for the real Kepler cards to occupy the empty $400-$600 price slots. This is why 670 was barely slower than 680 and why 660 will barely be slower than 670. The 660ti will be the only gk104 that makes any sense to buy, and the real 670/680 will release a bit later to occupy the high end like the were supposed to.

Ya, but those cards will probably be called GTX700 series. Obviously the longer you wait to upgrade, the more value and performance you'll get. Most don't expect the "real" GK110 based GTX780 until Q1 2013 at the earliest. That's half a year from now, or more. By that point AMD will have a much faster HD8000 series anyway. Based on how long it's taking NV to roll out their entire GTX600 line-up, I don't think we'll see GTX700 series in 2012.

 

[SirPauly]

A bit early:


http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4293/20242210151292261164942.jpg

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/6266/42513710151292312144942.jpg

 

[RussianSensation]

Nice 3DMark scores relative to the GTX670/680. It looks like a strong card (11-14% slower than GTX680 based on 3DMark), especially if it comes in at $300. Feels like we got a bit ripped off this generation with NV possibly selling GTX660Ti GK104 256-bit for $300....after launching GK104 256-bit GTX680 for $500.

 

[Crap Daddy]

A bit early:


http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4293/20242210151292261164942.jpg

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/6266/42513710151292312144942.jpg

Yep. 660Ti>7950 at probably 300$. Seems about right.

 

[RussianSensation]

Yep. 660Ti>7950 at probably 300$. Seems about right.

Ya, against an 800mhz HD7950. With overclocking, probably no chance.

 

[tviceman]

Ya, against an 800mhz HD7950. With overclocking, probably no chance.

I'm sure the gtx660ti will overclock pretty damn well, considering it's cut down even further than the gtx670 and shouldn't have any memory bandwidth bottlenecks associated with stock gtx670/680 speeds. It should catch a gtx670 pretty easily. If it comes in at $300, then the hd7950 gets to look stupid yet again.

 

[ocre]

A bit early:


http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/4293/20242210151292261164942.jpg

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/6266/42513710151292312144942.jpg

that is very awesome. These got to be true, dont they?
The 660ti will be a feakn nightmare for AMD. What about nvidia? if this is true, it makes the 670 look unappealing.

It might actually be the only video card to buy for the majority of the market.

I do support RS with his figuring. The HD7950 could turn out to be the choice for enthusiast, especially if it drops price to 300. For the people who like to push the clocks and squeeze out every drop, the 7950 could turn out being the next big GEM (i am seriously eye balling it) Its pretty crazy how things are turning out this round.

But we still dont know for sure what the overclocking limits are gonna be for the 660ti. I dont expect much from it, but you just dont know these days. They really dont have to worry much since 95% of GPU owners do not really push their cards at all. If these scores remain true the 660ti will be a mega home-run even without massive overclocking abilities.

Is this the closest GPUs have every been bunched together? has there ever been such small gaps between card tiers?

 

[Crap Daddy]

Ya, against an 800mhz HD7950. With overclocking, probably no chance.

Is there a GHZ edition out? Reviews are made on stock reference samples. It really doesn't matter how they overclock, it's added value for those interested.
And how much was the launch price of this card five months ago? 450$. Well for the many who bought that card until the 670 was out and AMD started to switch back to reality this 300$ card that beats at stock the card they bought some two months ago for 150$ more is not such a good news. Even worse news is that in just a few months the card for which they paid 450$ can be sold tomorrow at probably less than 300$.

 

[ocre]

I'm sure the gtx660ti will overclock pretty damn well, considering it's cut down even further than the gtx670 and shouldn't have any memory bandwidth bottlenecks associated with stock gtx670/680 speeds. It should catch a gtx670 pretty easily. If it comes in at $300, then the hd7950 gets to look stupid yet again.

I am sure it will reach the 670 levels. but it just doesnt have to go any further. Most GPU sales are not to extreme overclockers.

If what RS says is true, and the 7950s can reach 1100mhz without a sweat. Then the 7950 would be a great card for enthusiast who want 680 performance for 300$. I am taking his word on this.

I do not expect the 660ti to overclock to 680 levels. Not a chance

 

[RussianSensation]

Is there a GHZ edition out? Reviews are made on stock reference samples. It really doesn't matter how they overclock, it's added value for those interested.

Of course original $450 pricing on the 7950 was too high but it's somewhat of a moot point now since it's been >6 months since that card launched on January 31, 2012 and GTX660Ti is just launching now. August 16 will be 6.5 months since HD7950 launched. Also, per my post below, you'll see that it makes no sense to look at 800mhz 7950s given the current pricing trends.

If it comes in at $300, then the hd7950 gets to look stupid yet again.

Comparing a stock 800mhz HD7950 is missing the point since there are $310-320 aftermarket 7950s that are preoverclocked from the factory. 880mhz MSI TwinFrozr III and 900mhz Gigabyte Windforce 3x. Both of those (esp. the MSI TF3) can hit 1.1ghz on stock voltage. At those speeds they are ~ GTX680.

Even at 860mhz the HD7950 is already just 10% slower than the GTX670 at 1080P. I can't see how GTX660Ti will make those 7950s look stupid.

At 1025mhz HD7950 is just 2 fps behind GTX680 in BF3.

Also, the 144 GB/sec memory bandwidth and 24 ROPs will probably become a bottleneck with overclocking and especially with Anti-aliasing:

It's not even looking strong against an 800mhz 7950....

1.1-1.15ghz HD7950 will beat this card no problem. I thought NV is just dropping the # of SPs and keeping 32 ROPs and 256-bit memory bus. They crippled this card in all 3 areas.

 

[ocre]

wow. Just seen the review (tt) and the ti has only a 192bit bus. But is is amazingly fast. faster than the 7950. It is very powerful, Wow