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Any engineers here that can help with this? Please?

Texashiker

Texashiker

Lifer
I want to build a homemade water tower.

Tank specs:
Capacity: 550 Gallons
Dimensions: 67" dia. x 44"H
Weight: 99 lbs.

That is just for the tank, and not the frame.

What size I beam does the frame need to be made out of to support the tank when full? I am certified ASME section 8 pressure vessel and heat exchanger code welder. All welding will be done with ES70 flux core.

How wide does the base need to be to withstand 130 mile per hour winds? I live in a hurricane prone area.

How high off the ground does the base of the tower need to be to supply water pressure to a home?

Support bars on the side to prevent the tank from tipping.

Basic diagram, may not be to scale.

water-tower-diagram-71112149.jpg
 
Last edited:
I'm not a structural engineer but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night...

I am however a chemical engineer so I can answer the question on height. If you aren't going to utilize a booster pump, you will need to have ~140 feet from the top of the water in the tank to the point of use. I've found that 60 psi is what you get out of a typical home faucet.

See if you can buy a certified plan for constructing such a water tower. I feel that would be a better idea.
 
I'm yet another engineer that can't help you... this time metallurgical/materials

And as such I demand to know what material you're using for your tank.
 
gorcorps said:
I'm yet another engineer that can't help you... this time metallurgical/materials

And as such I demand to know what material you're using for your tank.
Click to expand...

I suppose I should ask what piping system you are going to use as far as valves, fittings, material, diameter, expected use and some rudimentary cost data on your current water supply v. this water supply. You know, just to be thorough.
 
Toastedlightly said:
I am however a chemical engineer so I can answer the question on height. If you aren't going to utilize a booster pump, you will need to have ~140 feet from the top of the water in the tank to the point of use. I've found that 60 psi is what you get out of a typical home faucet.
Click to expand...

Thank you, but I do not need that much water pressure, just enough to flush toilets, maybe take a shower, wash dishes,,,.

I want to fix up a way so when the power goes out I can bypass the pump to get basic water pressure to the home. Just enough water for personal hygiene.

Link to tank

http://www.plastic-mart.com/product/114/550-gallon-water-storage-tank-40703

* I am not associated with plastic mart in any shape, form or fashion.
 
Texashiker said:
Thank you, but I do not need that much water pressure, just enough to flush toilets, maybe take a shower, wash dishes,,,.

I want to fix up a way so when the power goes out I can bypass the pump to get basic water pressure to the home. Just enough water for personal hygiene.

Link to tank

http://www.plastic-mart.com/product/114/550-gallon-water-storage-tank-40703
Click to expand...

The pressure available is directly related to the height of the surface above the appliance/location of discharge. A simple equation would be:

Height required (ft) = Water Pressure Desired (psig) * 2.3 (ft/psig)

I have a feeling anything below ~40 psig will be disappointing and almost unusable as far as showering is concerned, however fitting a low pressure shower head may help.
 
Texashiker said:
I want to build a homemade water tower.

Tank specs:
Capacity: 550 Gallons
Dimensions: 67" dia. x 44"H
Weight: 99 lbs.

That is just for the tank, and not the frame.

What size I beam does the frame need to be made out of to support the tank when full? I am certified ASME section 8 pressure vessel and heat exchanger code welder. All welding will be done with ES70 flux core.

How wide does the base need to be to withstand 130 mile per hour winds? I live in a hurricane prone area.

How high off the ground does the base of the tower need to be to supply water pressure to a home?

Support bars on the side to prevent the tank from tipping.

Basic diagram, may not be to scale.

water-tower-diagram-71112149.jpg
Click to expand...


You could build a circular dome like structure. It will be able to withstand the force of the wind in any direction because it can guide the force always away downwards towards the ground on the opposite side of the tank. You will need a central circular structure composed of rings and in this center structure the tank must be placed.

For example : The problem with houses or barns and strong winds is the shape of the house and the pressure difference between the inside of the house and the outside. Causing roofs to come away.

But you have to calculate it on your own.
 
Considering you are trying to store this off the ground to supply water pressure, you'll need a pump to get water up there, why not just go the booster pump route and not deal with something that needs to be so high off the ground in a hurricane prone area to supply water pressure?

I'm not an engineer but I'd be curious to see what kind of efficiency differences you'd see in either application for supplying water pressure to only 550gallons.

edit: you have another post since the time I was writing this that answers that you want this in the event of a power outage, so the water tank essentially is storing the potential energy for future use. NVM THEN!!!!
 
Realize that water weighs about 5lbs/gallon

550 gallons is 2800 lbs; more than 1 ton of weight that the stand has to support beyond the 100lbs for the tank itself.

The legs will have to be anchored strong enough to hold a wind speed of $150 mph.
Someone can figure out the surface pressure/force against the tank that you have to be able to compensate for.
 
William Gaatjes said:
You could build a circular dome like structure. It will be able to withstand the force of the wind in any direction because it can guide the force always away downwards towards the ground on the opposite side of the tank. You will need a central circular structure composed of rings and in this center structure the tank must be placed.

For example : The problem with houses or barns and strong winds is the shape of the house and the pressure difference between the inside of the house and the outside. Causing roofs to come away.

But you have to calculate it on your own.
Click to expand...

If he builds a cylinder, he'll have zero head at ground-level unless he adds a pump.

Unlicensed civil engineer here. Official answer: go f*ck yourself, we bill at something like $150/hour for stuff like this🙂.

You can find the amount of pressure you need in your local/state building code.

Do worry about retention time and water quality. The longer it sits in there without secondary-disinfection, the more bacteria/pathogens will breed and fuxxorz you. Add an auto-flush device or chlorination unit. Also, make sure your tank materials don't leach anything over time.

Gravity is the easy part since you can just calculate the loads from unit-weights. Lateral is the hard part. You design the structure for wind and earthquake for lateral. The thing will be very top heavy. Frame and lateral supports will depend on foundation and mounting system you choose.

Find an engineer to do it officially. It's unethical/illegal for a licensed one to do it on the cheap, or give you a half-assed opinion knowing full well that you'll actually be using it to build something with it (thank goodness for "draft" watermarks).
 
EagleKeeper said:
Realize that water weighs about 5lbs/gallon

550 gallons is 2800 lbs; more than 1 ton of weight that the stand has to support beyond the 100lbs for the tank itself.

The legs will have to be anchored strong enough to hold a wind speed of $150 mph.
Someone can figure out the surface pressure/force against the tank that you have to be able to compensate for.
Click to expand...

Water is 8.34 lbs/gallon so over 4500lbs.
 
Imp said:
If he builds a cylinder, he'll have zero head at ground-level unless he adds a pump.

Unlicensed civil engineer here. Official answer: go f*ck yourself, we bill at something like $150/hour for stuff like this🙂.

You can find the amount of pressure you need in your local/state building code.

Do worry about retention time and water quality. The longer it sits in there without secondary-disinfection, the more bacteria/pathogens will breed and fuxxorz you. Add an auto-flush device or chlorination unit. Also, make sure your tank materials don't leach anything over time.

Gravity is the easy part since you can just calculate the loads from unit-weights. Lateral is the hard part. You design the structure for wind and earthquake for lateral. The thing will be very top heavy. Frame and lateral supports will depend on foundation and mounting system you choose.

Find an engineer to do it officially. It's unethical/illegal for a licensed one to do it on the cheap, or give you a half-assed opinion knowing full well that you'll actually be using it to build something with it (thank goodness for "draft" watermarks).
Click to expand...

Ask a civil engineer in the Philippines, they'll be happy to do it for 8$ an hour and provide very high quality work with accompanying CAD drawings.
 
Imp said:
If he builds a cylinder, he'll have zero head at ground-level unless he adds a pump.

Unlicensed civil engineer here. Official answer: go f*ck yourself, we bill at something like $150/hour for stuff like this🙂.

You can find the amount of pressure you need in your local/state building code.

Do worry about retention time and water quality. The longer it sits in there without secondary-disinfection, the more bacteria/pathogens will breed and fuxxorz you. Add an auto-flush device or chlorination unit. Also, make sure your tank materials don't leach anything over time.

Gravity is the easy part since you can just calculate the loads from unit-weights. Lateral is the hard part. You design the structure for wind and earthquake for lateral. The thing will be very top heavy. Frame and lateral supports will depend on foundation and mounting system you choose.

Find an engineer to do it officially. It's unethical/illegal for a licensed one to do it on the cheap, or give you a half-assed opinion knowing full well that you'll actually be using it to build something with it (thank goodness for "draft" watermarks).
Click to expand...


I am not a civil engineer. A dome open(build like a truss) or fully closed makes sense for me, the reason why it is hardly build and used is because it is awful expensive to design and build. I predicted the forces the wind generates and i had to think of this :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dome

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/buildingbig/dome/basics.html#ring

But i agree that this should be properly designed to prevent casualties.
 
Last edited:
I'm a Civil Engineer...but I don't do structural work. I deal with water/wastewater plants.

Utility departments want their operating pressures to stay between 50-80 psi (about 115-185 ft head). As someone already said, you'll need to build something awfully tall OR you'll need to pump it.
 
If you need cheap extra pressure make sure the tank is sealed well and install a hand pump of sorts. At least get a little extra and you don't have to build the tower so high up.
 
rcpratt said:
10.5 and 149 inches, respectively.
Click to expand...

10.5 inch I-beam and 149 inches off the ground?

Another options would be to install a cross member under the tank, weld a lug on the bottom, cement an anchor into the ground, then run a cable between the 2 lugs.

Or, I might pour a cement slab, and anchor the frame to the slab.

water-tower-2-71112311.jpg
 
Last edited:
EagleKeeper said:
Realize that water weighs about 5lbs/gallon

550 gallons is 2800 lbs; more than 1 ton of weight that the stand has to support beyond the 100lbs for the tank itself.

The legs will have to be anchored strong enough to hold a wind speed of $150 mph.
Someone can figure out the surface pressure/force against the tank that you have to be able to compensate for.
Click to expand...

nope, water weighs 8.35 lbs/gallon.

but yeah, 550 gallons would weigh a LOT.
 
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