Any Californians here afraid of the drought problem?

[John Connor]

You Californians should blame your politicians. Saving stupid fish and shit. You have the ocean, create desalinization plants! Your not getting any more water from Colorado.

 

[PliotronX]

I lived in the hotass inland part of Los Angeles for 25 years, the drought has always been a problem. They are going about it the completely wrong way. Jacking up water prices only hurts the middle and lower class residents. Government thinks price fixation is a tool of modifying behavior but the filthy rich will still keep on watering their huge lawns. Case in point, when the recreant former mayor Villaigarosa was imposing restrictions and sponsoring huge price hikes in the midst of the then-worst droughts "evar," a news article came about that he was keeping his gigantic yards at his house he rarely spent time at as green as a picture. City and state are hopeless. Just keep gallons of water in a cool dry place for emergencies, zeroscape your yard and you should be good.

 

[Brovane]

In Orange County CA where I live they have a Aquifier beneath the County that they draw water from including using imported supplies. Over a decade ago the Orange County Water District built a Ground Replenishment System. Previously treated wastewater was just dumped to the Ocean. Instead it undergoes further treatement to make the water drinkabled. They inject this water back into the aquifier. Purifying wastewater is about 1/3 the cost of current desalination processes. Right now about 20% of the water that refills the Aquifier comes from the treated wastewater program. They are in the process of exanding the system. Apparently LA wanted to do the same thing when Orange County was doing it but the resident's got all rilled up and called it toilet-to-tap and the program was shutdown. I think LA is taking another look at the process again.

We have to be smarter about how we use water in Southern CA. Right now I am working with my Gardener to come up with a design plan for re-doing my front yard and tear out all the grass and plants etc and put in climate correct vegetation. Trying to come up with a plan that my HOA will approve.

 

[foghorn67]

Cost of a 50 MGD desalination plant is ~$0.5 billion (the carlsbad one is $1 billion but it is the first large scale one in california).

Using LADWP, which supplies water to the City of LA as an example: LADWP bought ~220,000 AF of water from MWD in 2012. That's 220,000 * 325,000 gal/AF = 71,500,000,000 gallons per year or 195 MGD. To meet LADWP imported water demands, you'd need at least $2B worth of desal plants. Given that it is nearly impossible to build anything on the coast, I'd estimate the cost would be at least double.

So for every major city in California dependent on the state water project, expect to spend $2 billion each.

Chump change compared to how much money we blow.

The California High-Speed Rail Authority has estimated the project's year-of-expenditure cost at $68.4 billion (2011 estimate).[3] In July 2014 The World Bank reported that the per kilometer cost of California's high-speed rail system was $56 million, as compared with $17–21 million per km in China and $25–39 million per km in Europe.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_High-Speed_Rail

 

[SAWYER]

I had no idea of how bad the situation was until last week I saw a link to some pictures that showed before and after pics from several locations.

http://imgur.com/a/IgoUq

 

[PliotronX]

In Orange County CA where I live they have a Aquifier beneath the County that they draw water from including using imported supplies. Over a decade ago the Orange County Water District built a Ground Replenishment System. Previously treated wastewater was just dumped to the Ocean. Instead it undergoes further treatement to make the water drinkabled. They inject this water back into the aquifier. Purifying wastewater is about 1/3 the cost of current desalination processes. Right now about 20% of the water that refills the Aquifier comes from the treated wastewater program. They are in the process of exanding the system. Apparently LA wanted to do the same thing when Orange County was doing it but the resident's got all rilled up and called it toilet-to-tap and the program was shutdown. I think LA is taking another look at the process again.

We have to be smarter about how we use water in Southern CA. Right now I am working with my Gardener to come up with a design plan for re-doing my front yard and tear out all the grass and plants etc and put in climate correct vegetation. Trying to come up with a plan that my HOA will approve.

Thats cool about the aquafier, I agree about wise use of water. Through the ongoing problem I think we will see a lot of innovation come of it. I love dual flush toilets.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

We have to be smarter about how we use water in Southern CA. Right now I am working with my Gardener to come up with a design plan for re-doing my front yard and tear out all the grass and plants etc and put in climate correct vegetation. Trying to come up with a plan that my HOA will approve.

Very well thought out and common sense approaches. I don't live in Cali but worry from time to time about it's fate. The U.S. certainly benefits from California's huge economy. If it isn't the droughts its the earthquakes.

 

[drebo]

Cost of a 50 MGD desalination plant is ~$0.5 billion (the carlsbad one is $1 billion but it is the first large scale one in california).

Using LADWP, which supplies water to the City of LA as an example: LADWP bought ~220,000 AF of water from MWD in 2012. That's 220,000 * 325,000 gal/AF = 71,500,000,000 gallons per year or 195 MGD. To meet LADWP imported water demands, you'd need at least $2B worth of desal plants. Given that it is nearly impossible to build anything on the coast, I'd estimate the cost would be at least double.

So for every major city in California dependent on the state water project, expect to spend $2 billion each.

I'd rather they spend money on that than a $5b high speed rail between Merced and Fresno.

But, really, LA's problems are their own. Northern California isn't nearly as bad because we're not fully a desert.

Am I worried? No.

 

[NutBucket]

Trying to come up with a plan that my HOA will approve.

And this is a huge problem too. If the HOA insists on having green lawns there should be reclaimed water available to water it. And of course the problem isn't restricted to HOAs as there are many cities that have antiquated laws on the books concerning landscaping.

At least LA is smart about that; DWP will pay $3/sqft if you replace your lawn with water-friendly landscaping.

 

[Greenman]

Droughts are a part of the regular weather cycle here, the issue is that in drought years we don't have enough storage. We will eventually solve the problem by building homes over all of the crop land and driving industry out of state. Until then we'll do what we always do, ignore the problem until it's a crises, then ask for federal money and increase taxes for more study's. The study's will blame climate change for the problem, and recommend higher taxes and federal grants to further study the issue and recommend a solution, which will be higher taxes.
Meanwhile, the real estate developers will continue building McMansions and the farmers will continue going broke because they can't water their crops.

We got this under control.

 

[JulesMaximus]

And this is a huge problem too. If the HOA insists on having green lawns there should be reclaimed water available to water it. And of course the problem isn't restricted to HOAs as there are many cities that have antiquated laws on the books concerning landscaping.

At least LA is smart about that; DWP will pay $3/sqft if you replace your lawn with water-friendly landscaping.

Quite a few cities here in San Diego use reclaimed water for landscaping. The problem with doing this for residential use is the infrastructure really isn't in place to supply homes with both fresh water and reclaimed water for irrigation purposes.

A few of my neighbors have drought tolerant landscaping. I just water as little as possible, take shorter showers, my washing machine is new and a high efficiency mode but realistically there isn't a whole lot more I can do about it.

I'm not really afraid though... what would be the point of that?

 

[NutBucket]

I know the infrastructure isn't in place for residential use. My point is it is asinine for a city to force people to maintain green lawns during a time of drought.

In the back of mind I'm considering using the waste water from my shower to water the (non-edible) landscaping. My parents used to collect the rinse water from their old-style washing machine to water the front yard. Gray water is a completely under utilized resource.

 

[Ns1]

You guys are concentrating on LA when you guys should really be concentrating on the central valley.

 

[NutBucket]

Well we're the ones being yelled at to reduce usage.....

 

[NoTine42]

Well we're the ones being yelled at to reduce usage.....

Might be better than the treatment of some farmers given all of those "tell the government to end the dust bowl. Water=jobs" signs along I-5

Although I think the farmers might be even more stupid than the govt in this instance.

 

[Brovane]

Thats cool about the aquafier, I agree about wise use of water. Through the ongoing problem I think we will see a lot of innovation come of it. I love dual flush toilets.

I think the potential of reclaiming waste water and treating it to become drinkable has huge potential. It has a price point lower than desalination and the technology has been well demonstrated to work in the real world. People just need to get over the ick factor of reclaiming waste water. If you think about it, all water is recycled at some point. Personally I think between reclaiming waste water and desalination we can get ourselves out of importing water. Then we can let the farmers etc fight it out water usage and sit on the sidelines.

 

[Brovane]

And this is a huge problem too. If the HOA insists on having green lawns there should be reclaimed water available to water it. And of course the problem isn't restricted to HOAs as there are many cities that have antiquated laws on the books concerning landscaping.

At least LA is smart about that; DWP will pay $3/sqft if you replace your lawn with water-friendly landscaping.

My water district offers $2/Sqft to tear out grass. Once I started this project and started really looking around I realized the small number of yards that really use climate correct vegetation. At least in my discussion with my HOA there is nothing prohibiting me from tearing up my grass and replacing it. I think some HOA's still require grass. The State Legislature was looking at a bill to block HOA's from requiring grass. The sponsor was stating that apparently some HOA's didn't get the memo that we are in a drought. I know my HOA used to require grass.

Small article in the local paper about drought tolerant landscaping.
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/water-630331-drought-lawns.html

 

[JulesMaximus]

My water district offers $2/Sqft to tear out grass. Once I started this project and started really looking around I realized the small number of yards that really use climate correct vegetation. At least in my discussion with my HOA there is nothing prohibiting me from tearing up my grass and replacing it. I think some HOA's still require grass. The State Legislature was looking at a bill to block HOA's from requiring grass. The sponsor was stating that apparently some HOA's didn't get the memo that we are in a drought. I know my HOA used to require grass.

Small article in the local paper about drought tolerant landscaping.
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/water-630331-drought-lawns.html

Ours does not but one of my neighbors put in fake grass and it looks pretty good. No watering and no constant mowing/trimming. Kind of appealing actually.

 

[zinfamous]

Well I stopped showering, flushing my toilet, and washing my car. So that helps.

You guys are concentrating on LA when you guys should really be concentrating on the central valley.

:thumbsup:

It has come to my awareness that 90% of the things posted about California on the internet, come from people that don't know anything about California.

 

[Brovane]

Ours does not but one of my neighbors put in fake grass and it looks pretty good. No watering and no constant mowing/trimming. Kind of appealing actually.

One of my neighbors down the street but in fake grass and I didn't even realize it was fake until i walked by and thought the grass looked a little to green. I then realized it was fake. :biggrin:

 

[moonbogg]

In some of the cities around here, it's not uncommon for $100/month water bills. What's the population that the LADWP would serve? Estimating 4million people, 2 billion dollars is $500 per person. Spread out over 10 years (120 months), that's a little over $4 per month per person. What's California waiting for??

edit: or if it's 10 million in Los Angeles County, then it works out to $200 per person, or $6.67 per month for a family of four, over 10 years.

Um, you forgot to add the PROFIT margin. It would be more like $75.00 per month for 20 years, just for a little PROFIT.

 

[FleshLight]

In some of the cities around here, it's not uncommon for $100/month water bills. What's the population that the LADWP would serve? Estimating 4million people, 2 billion dollars is $500 per person. Spread out over 10 years (120 months), that's a little over $4 per month per person. What's California waiting for??

edit: or if it's 10 million in Los Angeles County, then it works out to $200 per person, or $6.67 per month for a family of four, over 10 years.

That's just the capital cost for the plant and doesn't include o&m, bond repayment, etc. And LA County is not City of LA. So basically, water bills would probably be doubled (and tripled for those living in apartments).

 

[McLovin]

You Californians should blame your politicians. Saving stupid fish and shit. You have the ocean, create desalinization plants! Your not getting any more water from Colorado.

Wildlife Conservation is a big deal and everyone should strive to reasonably save as many species as possible (saving all of them is a stupid expectation, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't at least try to save what you can). Being at the top of the food chain means we are as responsible for managing wildlife populations as we are to making sure people get fed. The ignorance of your comment is what makes people like myself who enjoying hunting and fishing for the right reasons, feeding our families and managing populations vs only being interested in what looks best on our living room walls, look bad.

It is a economic problem as much as it is a political problem. Politicians want to regulate what companies do to ensure that resources aren't abused and Businesses want to make money, so they line the pockets of the politicians with money to ensure it's more favorable to them. Just a big fucking circle jerk really. Instead of trying to blame someone here, work on figuring out a solution.

As Dr. Pizza said, what is California waiting on? Sounds like it's time to take advantage of a large body of water as a border.

 

[DrPizza]

Um, you forgot to add the PROFIT margin. It would be more like $75.00 per month for 20 years, just for a little PROFIT.

I'd hope that it would be a public project as water is a requirement for life. But, you're probably correct to a degree if it were a private project. Sadly, a public project would still be rife with people trying to make some bucks out of it.

 

[thestrangebrew1]

I'm worried in the sense that my job sort of depends on how well farming is doing here in the Central Valley. If the farmer's don't have money for projects, I run out of some work. I won't say all, because we have some long-range projects coming down the pipe, but I could eventually end up being p/t employed. I'm not too worried about not having enough water to drink just yet. I've cut back on watering the lawn and washing my cars voluntarily, as we don't have an emergency ordinance in Merced Co. like some cities are passing.