Any ATOT Stock Traders?

[MomentsofSanity]

Have you taken the time to first sit and evaluate all of your suitibility needs? Things like risk tolerence, liquidity needs, time horizon, investment objectives, dependents etc...

I can tell you an ETF or MF, but it doesn't mean it's right for you as an investor.

 

[Rinaun]

I personally like trading tubes for no shows, I don't wear many pants and I don't like the socks showing when I sit.

Oh, STOCK TRADING? My bad.

 

[halik]

Not really looking to get into day trading per se, but I'd like to start investing. In the beginning, I am probably just going to put some cash into a safe ETF and hold. However, I'm really interested in studying and learning charting and trending.

Does anybody here do trading for a living/hobby? If so, does charting and trending really help you increase returns, or is it just some theoretical mumbo jumbo that really only works in hindsight?

Also, if do practice and study these things, which technical indicators do you use? I'm currently using SMAs, EMAs, RSI, MACD & a Fast Stochastic.

Edit: Edited the title. Not actually looking to day trade.

Professional trader here; technical stuff* is great at hindsight, adds very little value in actual trading. Buy an indexed fund and be happy; if your trading idea takes me 2 hours to code up, it for sure will not make money.

* elliot wave nonsense, EMA xovers, people ascribing shapes to price movements etc. etc. The only thing that I see having impact are key price levels that tend to hide stops (blowing through DMAs, round numbers etc).

 

[Balt]

Nope, I buy and hold index funds and ETFs forever. I rebalance by buying more of whatever's underweight.

Cons:
- You don't get rich quick

Pros:
- Taxes are very simple, a few lines to copy from the brokerage form
- Taxes are low since there are only the fund distributions and gains
- Expenses are low since they are low-expense funds with no trading fees
- Effort is close to zero. No research, no market timing.
- Much lower risk, since you're buying a fund of 500+ stocks instead of trying to buy and sell one stock at just the right times.

My advice is to pick a different hobby, but there are some people here that trade individual stocks and might have tips.

Best way to do it, IMO. I have my 401k that I don't mess around with other than making very small adjustments.

For my discretionary Vanguard account, I've found that 'less is more' is better there too in terms of messing with it. I used to move money around a bit in the small, mid, and large cap ETFs, but it was kind of time-consuming to keep up with it. Now I just put money in the VTI and VXUS (international minus US) ETFs and let it sit. I keep some money in cash (that I can still afford to lose) to buy on the dips, and that's about it. This has worked really well in recent years because we haven't had any prolonged decline in the market. I expect buying on the dip will probably not work quite as well in the future, though, at least in the short term.

 

[Miramonti]

Professional trader here; technical stuff* is great at hindsight, adds very little value in actual trading. Buy an indexed fund and be happy; if your trading idea takes me 2 hours to code up, it for sure will not make money.

* elliot wave nonsense, EMA xovers, people ascribing shapes to price movements etc. etc. The only thing that I see having impact are key price levels that tend to hide stops (blowing through DMAs, round numbers etc).

"Key", as in what regard? Regarding your 2 hour rule...your not serious, are you?

As for technical analysis, there is no magical TA approach for trading, however many methods can be useful for analyzing price movement over time, which is where plenty of opportunities exist imo.

 

[OverVolt]

Why not check out how the ETF operates and see if you agree with it? Instead of just looking for one with a high yield.

 

[halik]

"Key", as in what regard? Regarding your 2 hour rule...your not serious, are you?

As for technical analysis, there is no magical TA approach for trading, however many methods can be useful for analyzing price movement over time, which is where plenty of opportunities exist imo.

Key just means that there will be stop orders clustered around that price. Think ES at 2000, 10 year treasury future at 126, gold at 1300 etc etc. If the price goes through that level, it trips stop orders and generally had additional momentum to it.

Re 2 hour rule, absolutely. If the idea is so simple that it takes no time at all to implement and backtest (think moving average crossover, boiling band reversion or some such nonsense), it for sure won't be profitable. Market is far more efficient at this point and lot more sophistication is needed to make money.

 

[Miramonti]

Key just means that there will be stop orders clustered around that price. Think ES at 2000, 10 year treasury future at 126, gold at 1300 etc etc. If the price goes through that level, it trips stop orders and generally had additional momentum to it.

Re 2 hour rule, absolutely. If the idea is so simple that it takes no time at all to implement and backtest (think moving average crossover, boiling band reversion or some such nonsense), it for sure won't be profitable. Market is far more efficient at this point and lot more sophistication is needed to make money.

Regarding 'key levels', understood. However it's highly unpredictable because of the value that an instrument has before it hits key levels. For example, generalizing here, it could be considered very 'overvalued' due to recent aggressive runups, and if it dips below a 'key level', one might expect stops to have a greater impact over the longer run. On the other hand, if it has sold off to an extent that might be considered 'under valued' at the time, then stops getting executed could be considered more of a buying opportunity as it suddenly dips, where one might expect that to be a short or long term bottom. I am not a believer in hard-fast rules for 'key levels', as each situation is different and as a result, naturally open to interpretation.

Reg. your 2 hour rule: I misunderstood, and thought you said, 'if it takes me [more than] 2 hours to code, it won't make money, where you meant 'only' 2 hours. I 100% agree here.

 

[Staples]

I have spent a few years trading.

Buy and hold is the only thing that seems to work.

If you want to be lazy and probably make as much money as most "professional stock traders", put all your money into an SP500 index fund such as the SPX and you do not have to do much baby sitting with it.

 

[OverVolt]

You know how many day traders are in the forbes top 100 richest men? Zero. :awe:

 

[Miramonti]

You know how many day traders are in the forbes top 100 richest men? Zero. :awe:

That's great to know, which is why being a plumber, teacher, air traffic controllers, truck driver, nurse, doctor, dentist, chiropractor, and many more, are better professions, because there are lots of them in Forbes list of the 100 richest men.

 

[Staples]

Also, day trading has a much better chance of working if you are trading a million or more dollars per trade. If you are only trading a few thousand at a time, the finance charges will eat up all your profits.

 

[Miramonti]

Also, day trading has a much better chance of working if you are trading a million or more dollars per trade. If you are only trading a few thousand at a time, the finance charges will eat up all your profits.

On the other hand, people tend to be pretty stupid and less disciplined the more money they have, particularly if it wasn't smarts and discipline that got them the money in the first place.

 

[Scarpozzi]

I've got a pension that's based on the market. It's broken up into small chunks because the account has been rezoned a number of times. It's great because I can see how different mixes have performed and the various returns in each segment.

Anyhow....it's all comprised of mutual funds. The cons of mutual funds are that some cost more than others. There are fund managers and they take a cut of the action...but they do it so you don't have to. Just look at the risk ratings on a number of funds and spread them around amongst the companies that offer them: Voya, Vangard, Fidelity, etc... They all have a good mix. Don't forget to do like 5-10% of stable growth like bonds...maybe not in the beginning, but you do want to shift your risk to lower risk investments down the line to protect your investment.

If you think you're going to start withdrawing funds from your account, look at the market and consider shifting money around to withdraw the safest funds first....or the riskiest depending on the current state of the economy at that time. Just know that the number of shares you buy is far more important that the value those shares have at any given time....until you sell....unless you buy stock in a company. Then you must look at stock price, volume, and dividends as a indicator to buy/hold/sell....

Buying stocks with dividends are another way to go long and build shares/wealth without putting much more into it. If you hold X-shares long enough and reinvest the dividends, it can really add up over time. Keep snowballing your earnings, etc...

Just decide the best plan of action to cash out down the road. If you can do a ROTH, it won't count against your taxable income when you withdraw funds. I have a good mix of 401k + pension that are traditional and am trying to stack my roth IRA as a supplement source to those income streams. (not to mention cracking the whip and retiring long before my wife does)

 

[Hugo Drax]

Right now the big thing is trained canines that sit in front of special trading screens and they would mash (Green buy/Red Sell) The data is fed into a computer and go/nogo decisions made by the trade coordinator. The dogs get rewarded for every correct pick.

They are able to see patterns that humans just can. Eventually it will be automated though and no trade coordinator will be required to initiate the basket trade.

 

[momeNt]

You sound like you'd want to be an active trader and looking to exploit market inefficiencies, same as a day trader. I don't think that is very wise because you are competing against people whose entire career is to do the very same. You should instead be looking at value investing by researching companies that you think have good growth and success prospects. More of a buy and hold strategy like other posters do.

If you want to be active in a market, I suggest buying land and scrap processing equipment and learning the metals market.

 

[momeNt]

Right now the big thing is trained canines that sit in front of special trading screens and they would mash (Green buy/Red Sell) The data is fed into a computer and go/nogo decisions made by the trade coordinator. The dogs get rewarded for every correct pick.

They are able to see patterns that humans just can. Eventually it will be automated though and no trade coordinator will be required to initiate the basket trade.

Canines have had a rapid ascent in the trading world. I believe just 2 years ago the first canine rang the closing bell, now they pretty much run the show.

 

[brianmanahan]

That's great to know, which is why being a plumber, teacher, air traffic controllers, truck driver, nurse, doctor, dentist, chiropractor, and many more, are better professions, because there are lots of them in Forbes list of the 100 richest men.

at least those things add value

not that i really care about value - just money

 

[brianmanahan]

Right now the big thing is trained canines that sit in front of special trading screens and they would mash (Green buy/Red Sell) The data is fed into a computer and go/nogo decisions made by the trade coordinator. The dogs get rewarded for every correct pick.

They are able to see patterns that humans just can. Eventually it will be automated though and no trade coordinator will be required to initiate the basket trade.

ah yes, dogs of the dow

a very popular strategy to be sure

 

[OverVolt]

That's great to know, which is why being a plumber, teacher, air traffic controllers, truck driver, nurse, doctor, dentist, chiropractor, and many more, are better professions, because there are lots of them in Forbes list of the 100 richest men.

Pfft Who needs millions for retirement when you have a BART pension.