Any aquarium experts out there?

[HumblePie]

Where did the initial Ammonia come from?

Tap Water - No

Gravel - No

Additives - Not likely

Contaminated water? - Cat Pee?

Cleaning agents left on inside of tank? - Could be that Petsmart cleaned the tank with Windex before they put it on display. Did you rinse the tank well before adding gravel and water?

HOB Filter? - You could have bought a returned filter with organic material in the guts from a previous owner.

You should probably scrub the tank, and wash the filter good and see if your Ammonia spikes again. If it does, then break it down and rinse everything. Start from scratch so the mystery Ammonia doesn't come back.

If Ammonia doesn't come back after scrubbing tank, then see if tank will cycle.

Not the cats peeing in it. Have a completely tight hood on it and I would see the pee residue, as well as smell it, if they had tried it.

The other suggestions about the windex and HOB make sense though. Petsmart stopped carrying extras of tanks in the back per store. They only have demo models. So if a demo is bought you have to wait for another to shipped to the store to pick it up. Which means the tank I bought was a floor model and was possibly contaminated with cleaning supplies. That was something I didn't think off and makes some sense. Although that wouldn't be that large of amount of ammonia residue left over I would think.

As for the returned HOB filter I purchased that could be the case as well. Picked up the emporer from Alamo Aquatics and not pet smart because they were cheaper. They only had one on the shelf and the place is a smaller mom & pop style store. While everything looked new, there is a good chance it could have been a cleaned up returned item.

As for now I'm going to leave it as is. I bought some Tetra Safe Start over lunch and added it in. Expensive stuff, but I was reading reviews and it's the only proven bottle of bacteria to work with published research, tests, and findings to back it up.

 

[WackyDan]

I had a 75 gallon salt water tank for about 7 years. I know it's not exactely the same but I might be able to help. To me it sounds like your tank is "cycling". All new tanks do this in the very beginging stages.
Check out this link for a basic idea of what I'm talking about. My guess is that your gravel still had some organic matter on it and it kicked off a "mini cycle" in your tank. http://www.worldcichlids.com/faqs/cycling.html

What I don't get.. is why it is cycling with nothing to produce ammonia?

You want a tank to cycle before adding fish...But you generally get a cycle going by adding raw ammonia yourself, or by dropping a small amount of food in... as it breaks down it produces ammonia...

To the OP... Wait on getting fish... let your tank run like that... drop in some food and let it sit... You should eventually see the ammonia level decrease, and the nitrates show on a water test... at that point you know you now have the beneficial bacteria in the tank consuming the ammonia.

If you have a friend with an established tank, you can take their old filter media or some of their gravel in a mesh bag and speed up the cycling of the tank.

Aquariacentral.com has a lot of info on this.

 

[WackyDan]

Where did the initial Ammonia come from?

Tap Water - No

Gravel - No

Additives - Not likely

Contaminated water? - Cat Pee?

Cleaning agents left on inside of tank? - Could be that Petsmart cleaned the tank with Windex before they put it on display. Did you rinse the tank well before adding gravel and water?

HOB Filter? - You could have bought a returned filter with organic material in the guts from a previous owner.

You should probably scrub the tank, and wash the filter good and see if your Ammonia spikes again. If it does, then break it down and rinse everything. Start from scratch so the mystery Ammonia doesn't come back.

If Ammonia doesn't come back after scrubbing tank, then see if tank will cycle.

BUNK... You need ammonia in order to even get a tank to cycle. Leave it be... let it run.

 

[BoomerD]

Patience, patience, patience.

In the aquarium hobby, only the bad things happen fast.

I'm not sure what's causing the ammonia spikes. UNLESS your water is treated by the city with chloramines and one of your treatment products is breaking down only the chlorine and leaving behind the ammonia...but Prime SHOULD help treat the ammonia. (it doesn't remove it, but helps convert it to a less toxic form) I ar knot a kemist, and I don't remember all the various chemical letter designations, but ammonia is a necessary part of the nitrogen cycle in a healthy tank. (ammonia-->nitrites-->nitrates)

I agree that the Emperor 400 is a bit small for the ONLY filtration on a 60 gallon tank, but it will work with a light bio-load once the wheels get "charged" with bacteria.

http://malawicichlids.com/mw01017.htm


Getting in a hurry and trying to rush the cycle...or jumping with fish too early only leads to sick/dead fish.
You CAN toss in a few small "feeder" goldfish if you want. They're cheap, so when they inevitably die from ammonia/nitrite poisoning, you're not out much money...yet they're tough little carp and often survive the cycle. Then, after 6-8 weeks, (yes, the cycle takes that long...or longer) you take them back to the pet store...or give them to someone with big fish.

I highly doubt that the ammonia you're reading is from cleaning products on/in the tank or filter.

 

[HumblePie]

I'm guessing the ammonia came from residue left on the tank of some sort. It was a display model and I didn't wash or rinse it off. It could have been left over cleaning chems or other forms of residue such as lots of dust, which I think there was. The dust is dried human skin mostly, and in petsmart would have some some animal dander mixed in I bet. So that could have sparked some decay and ammonia in the tank. Also I don't think I was able to get all the "glue" off the glass when I pulled the paper "display" info crap stuck to the inside of the tank. I grabbed some alcohol wipes to get it off, but there still might have been some I missed.

If that's the case the the spike will eventually go down once that material has finish making all the ammonia it was going to.

Hoping that Tetra Safe Start works. I'll monitor my water during the week and hopefully soon I'll be able to add fish.

 

[HumblePie]

Patience, patience, patience.

In the aquarium hobby, only the bad things happen fast.

I'm not sure what's causing the ammonia spikes. UNLESS your water is treated by the city with chloramines and one of your treatment products is breaking down only the chlorine and leaving behind the ammonia...but Prime SHOULD help treat the ammonia. (it doesn't remove it, but helps convert it to a less toxic form) I ar knot a kemist, and I don't remember all the various chemical letter designations, but ammonia is a necessary part of the nitrogen cycle in a healthy tank. (ammonia-->nitrites-->nitrates)

I agree that the Emperor 400 is a bit small for the ONLY filtration on a 60 gallon tank, but it will work with a light bio-load once the wheels get "charged" with bacteria.

http://malawicichlids.com/mw01017.htm


Getting in a hurry and trying to rush the cycle...or jumping with fish too early only leads to sick/dead fish.
You CAN toss in a few small "feeder" goldfish if you want. They're cheap, so when they inevitably die from ammonia/nitrite poisoning, you're not out much money...yet they're tough little carp and often survive the cycle. Then, after 6-8 weeks, (yes, the cycle takes that long...or longer) you take them back to the pet store...or give them to someone with big fish.

I highly doubt that the ammonia you're reading is from cleaning products on/in the tank or filter.

I already have another emperor 400 on the way. 800 GPH should be more than enough for a 60 gal tank.

Anyhow, I checked into the chloramine bit as you suggested. That seemed like a good candidate as well for ammonia. Fortunately San Antonio water treatment doesn't use that. http://www.maast.org/showthread.php?45048-No-Chloramine-in-San-Antonio-water

So the idea it came from that is gone. Still it might be something that had reacted with the original stress-coat chemical I put in the tank when I originally put the water in there.

 

[NutBucket]

Trust me, dump the HOB and get a canister. Best move I ever made. I found myself having to clean my Emperor 280 (on a 29g tank) about once a week. Granted I have a pretty well-stocked tank, but once a weeks is just a pain.

I switched to a Fluval 305 and when I open it up every 4 weeks or so it still looks pretty damned clean. I could probably get away with cleaning it every 6 months.

 

[Modelworks]

Don't buy colored gravel, it will only break down over time and the coating comes off making it look terrible and dirtying the water. For cichlids the absolute best stuff I have found is called aragonite. Aragonite is made up of crushed coral , shells and sand and contains trace minerals that give your water the closest match to their native waters. It also contains buffers that will keep the ph at around 8.2 without you having to do anything.


For filtering I tried everything from sumps to canister filters and ended up using 2 aquaclear 70's per tank. They are dependable and quiet and don't require any specific filter cartridges, just a sponge you take out and rinse.

Since the tank is new I would start over washing the gravel, the filters, etc and refill it rather than trying to add chemicals to fix the problem.

 

[HumblePie]

Trust me, dump the HOB and get a canister. Best move I ever made. I found myself having to clean my Emperor 280 (on a 29g tank) about once a week. Granted I have a pretty well-stocked tank, but once a weeks is just a pain.

I switched to a Fluval 305 and when I open it up every 4 weeks or so it still looks pretty damned clean. I could probably get away with cleaning it every 6 months.

two emperors 400's for 800 GPH for $75 shipped from Amazon.... or a single 300 GPH canister for $180. From what I've read there isn't any performance difference between a canister and a HOB. The main difference being one of aesthetics and cost.

 

[HumblePie]

Don't buy colored gravel, it will only break down over time and the coating comes off making it look terrible and dirtying the water. For cichlids the absolute best stuff I have found is called aragonite. Aragonite is made up of crushed coral , shells and sand and contains trace minerals that give your water the closest match to their native waters. It also contains buffers that will keep the ph at around 8.2 without you having to do anything.


For filtering I tried everything from sumps to canister filters and ended up using 2 aquaclear 70's per tank. They are dependable and quiet and don't require any specific filter cartridges, just a sponge you take out and rinse.

Since the tank is new I would start over washing the gravel, the filters, etc and refill it rather than trying to add chemicals to fix the problem.

Water here in south Texas is literally off the scale for pH, gH, and kH. I mean it. My water out the tap is like 9.0 pH. That is WITH a home water softener and filtration unit out in the garage.

The aragonite would have been a good suggestion though if I had it before I bought the current stuff. Yet most people have said I'll do just fine with the colored gravel. Which is why I rinsed it a whole lot to get most of what will possibly leech away off before sticking it in my tank.

 

[NutBucket]

Well, lets just say you can cram a lot more filter media into a canister than a HOB.

But, HOBs aren't terrible. If they work for you great. I used to run old school Whisper HOBs 15 years ago on a 20gal tank and never had any issues. The design of my current 29gal prevents me from using anything larger than an Emperor 280 or equivalent so I didn't have much choice except to go canister for more filter capacity. The other benefit is that when you replace the "bio bags" or whatever they're called you're tossing out the bio media where bacteria and such colonize. Yes, the effect is less drastic due to the biowheel but it still takes time to re-colonize the new media. Canisters don't have this problem. You rarely need to replace or even clean the bio media. I wash out the foam pre-filter and leave everything else alone. And those stupid filter bags get expensive FAST. I installed my canister last July and haven't replaced anything except for the polishing pads (which I'm not entirely convinced do a whole lot anyway. I doubt I buy more after I deplete my current supply).

Finally, flow rate is fine and all but it doesn't mean the mechanical filter media will "clog" any slower.

Oh, check out www.bigalsonline.com for aquarium supplies. I prefer them to Amazon.

 

[Modelworks]

Yet most people have said I'll do just fine with the colored gravel. Which is why I rinsed it a whole lot to get most of what will possibly leech away off before sticking it in my tank.

It will be okay for awhile. The problem you will have is that cichlids are diggers. I have right now a pile of substrate halfway up the side of the tank near the largest males cave where he has scooped up stuff in his mouth and carried it to his corner, spit it out and repeats all day long. They also like to dig circles in the substrate to use for mating. The digging causes the gravel coating to wear down a lot faster than it would otherwise.

Here is a good video showing the cichlids in their natural environment. It shows some of the males fighting, the circular mating thing they do, etc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lL5isQ3B4s&feature=related