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Any aquarium experts out there?

HumblePie

HumblePie

Lifer
I decided to start a new aquarium and ran into a problem that has stumped me and my friend who knows a lot.

I bought a brand new 60 gal tank and stand kit from petsmart. This is a glass tank and a nice setup. It's the Marineland brand. This is the link to the website for information on it.

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3804465&lmdn=Fish+Aquariums+&+Bowls

So I bought the tank and picked up a Marineland Emporer 400 as recommended to me by my friend. Which is this hang on the back filtration setup in this link.

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752378

I buy that and 60 lbs of gravel. I get 55 lbs of black gravel and 5 pounds of white gravel by Top Fin to look nice. My friend says we need to rinse all the gravel off so we do so. We put a bit in a colander and rinse off the gravel completely until no more foam and dust appears as we slosh around the gravel.

So I stick my gravel in the tank and we fill it up with tap water. I plan on doing african cichlids because the water around here in south Texas is really hard and high pH. I put in 6 cap fulls of stresscoat to help declorinate the water and add some fish slime. I have NOT bought any fish at this point.

So I have a tank with gravel, water, and a filter running. I have it running from last Tuesday until Friday. My friend was available only on Saturday to come help me pick out the fish. Friday night before getting the fish I decide to get my water tested to make sure nothing is messed up. Not that I'm expecting any problems, but I wanted to be sure. I also wanted to pick up some decorations as well for the tank and put those in overnight before getting the fish. So I get my water tested and the ammonia is through the roof! It's over 5ppm. I'm like WTF? The girl at petsmart asks me if my fish are exhibiting strange behavior or are dying because that ammonia level is way to high. I said, "I don't have any fish in there yet!" At which point the employee has no clue about what is going on. So I buy my own test kit thinking maybe something happened with how the employee tested the water and screwed up somehow.

I buy a couple of different test kits. One with the strips and one with the drops. I also bought some Prime and StressZyme as recommended by the employee there. I take them home with some decorations. I test my tank and sure as shit every test shows it is through the roof on ammonia level. There are no nitrates or nitrites at all in the tank. Just ammonia. I'm thinking maybe it is coming out of my tap like that. I test every faucet in my house and every time I test the water from the tap comes up ammonia free. I call my friend and he has no clue. He says I should change out most of the water and see what is happening.

So I do a 90% water change and test the tank. The ammonia level is showing at .25ppm at this point as the new water has no ammonia but there is still some from the old water I mixed it with. I add some stress zyme and prime chems before going to bed. I let it sit over night.

Come morning I test again. The ammonia level is up to 2ppm. By evening on Saturday it is up to 5ppm on the chart or higher as the test kit doesn't go higher. There is no food, no debris, no decorations, NOTHING IN THE TANK! Just the tank, gravel, water, and the filter running. I decide to buy some extra zeolite on Sunday morning to put into the filter blanks I have in the emporer 400 as well as do another water change. Neither seemed to do a damn thing. I watched the tank throughout the day on sunday to make sure someone wasn't screwing around with the tank like my girlfriend putting ammonia in it or my cats trying to pee in it. Not that I thought either would happen and neither did. However by the end of the day the ammonia levels still climbed sky high again.

So here it is monday morning and my tank is still full of ammonia with no nitrites building at all. I have no idea what is going on. I went through a huge bottle of Prime and StressZyme with no effect. I can't put any fish in this tank without getting the ammonia level down. No bacteria seems to be wanting to grow despite the ammonia levels.

So anyone have any clue what might be going on?
 
Well, you can be pretty sure it isn't magic. I'm guessing something in the gravel. Take some of the gravel out, rinse again, then put it in a neutral container and test.
 
If you only have water, gravel, and the filter in the tank and you know its not the water, process of elimination says something is up with your gravel or filter.
 
lxskllr said:
Well, you can be pretty sure it isn't magic. I'm guessing something in the gravel. Take some of the gravel out, rinse again, then put it in a neutral container and test.
Click to expand...

Forgot to mention. Did that. Let a bunch of gravel sit in the tub on Sunday and it came up neutral. I haven't added any ammonia and haven't put anything in there to generate some. So I have no clue why it's being generated. Nor why no bacteria is growing to start making nitrites. I wouldn't mind the ammonia, as strange as it is, so long as I was getting nitrites but I'm not. That was what I was going to do on Saturday. Get some Rosie Reds to start cycling my tank. My friend uses rosie's for feeding his fish, so when I was done cycling I was going to give him the rosies to feed his fish with.

The only thing I can think of is that the filter is somehow messed up. Not sure how that can be the case, but it's the only thing I can think of and don't know how to test.
 
Are you sure it's not the stresscoat stuff you're adding? Not sure how that would be it, but if its not the water or the gravel then its either the filter or the chemicals you are adding...
 
just grasping at straws...

is there any chance that ammonia could be coming from the silicone seals that hold the glass together?
 
never understood why people have problems with aquariums. some gravel, water, heater, filter, toss in some fish and all goes well for me. i go months without cleaning or changing the filter. Add a little stress coat and stress zyme when the fish go in. fish seem happy, tank isnt dingy at all. gunk in the gravel though. fish are fine. lose some from time to time, but not many. had to get rid of the mollies a long time ago becase they breed like mother fuckers. I keep guppies and tetras now.
 
I had a 75 gallon salt water tank for about 7 years. I know it's not exactely the same but I might be able to help. To me it sounds like your tank is "cycling". All new tanks do this in the very beginging stages.
Check out this link for a basic idea of what I'm talking about. My guess is that your gravel still had some organic matter on it and it kicked off a "mini cycle" in your tank. http://www.worldcichlids.com/faqs/cycling.html
 
A full cycling of your tank will take upwards of a month. You probably won't see nitrites for a good 1.5 -2 weeks and then the same again for nitrates.

But as others have said, it's got to be something in the gravel that's causing the ammonia to rise like this. No reason why the filter would be doing it - all that does is provide living space for your nitrifying bacteria and active carbon (if you're using it).

Prime is just a dechlorinator. I believe it helps remove ammonium (NH4) but not ammonia (NH3).

Have you taken any of your water to the fish shop for testing just as a second opinion?
 
bbhaag said:
I had a 75 gallon salt water tank for about 7 years. I know it's not exactely the same but I might be able to help. To me it sounds like your tank is "cycling". All new tanks do this in the very beginging stages.
Check out this link for a basic idea of what I'm talking about. My guess is that your gravel still had some organic matter on it and it kicked off a "mini cycle" in your tank. http://www.worldcichlids.com/faqs/cycling.html
Click to expand...


hmmm.....sounds fishy.
 
looked at the product specs..it says it converts ammonia to a 'non-toxic form'. then read the first paragraph at this link

http://www.beverlyspet.com/fishtalk/Handling High Ammonia Levels.htm

Ammonia will be altered to a non-toxic chemical, but will still fool any Nessler Reagent based ammonia test kit, thus giving a false positive reading. Use a sodium salicyliate ammonia test kit (Sea-Test or Dry-Tab) to obtain an accurate reading.
Click to expand...

could it be you are using the wrong test?
 
crownjules said:
A full cycling of your tank will take upwards of a month. You probably won't see nitrites for a good 1.5 -2 weeks and then the same again for nitrates.

But as others have said, it's got to be something in the gravel that's causing the ammonia to rise like this. No reason why the filter would be doing it - all that does is provide living space for your nitrifying bacteria and active carbon (if you're using it).

Prime is just a dechlorinator. I believe it helps remove ammonium (NH4) but not ammonia (NH3).

Have you taken any of your water to the fish shop for testing just as a second opinion?
Click to expand...

Prime says it detoxes everything...

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753920&lmdn=SHOP+FOR

same with stress zyme

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754033


Ad I did take it into a petshop 🙂 That's how I found out it was spiked high in ammonia in the first place.


Again, I have no problem with the ammonia if it is getting my bacteria growing. But the fact that there is ridiculous levels of ammonia in my tank for a week without me putting it there or putting something in there to generate it has me scratching my head. I don't want whatever is making the ammonia levels ridiculous to continue to keep doing so or I might have a problem adding fish later. I also have zero nitrites and nitrates. Not a damn thing in there after a week of ammonia in the water. Zero bacteria growth at all. Which is the other part of the problem. I'll let the tank sit all this week and see what happens I guess.
 
I wouldn't be too worried until 3+ weeks passes and no nitrites. It takes time for them to develop. And as for Prime, I know it claims it gets rid of ammonia but I could have sworn I remember reading on aquarium forums that it doesn't actually do that. I only used Prime briefly before getting a RO/DI filter for water changes.
 
It's all part of the cycle. First ammonia then that gets converted to nitrite, and finally nitrate. In the salt water hobby a fully cycled tank that is ready for fish or coral can take anywhere from a week to a full month. In some rare cases even longer.
The reason you have 0 nitrites and nitrates is because the ammonia hasn't been broken down yet. I'd also reccomend picking up your own test kits so you don't have to keep running to the pet store every time you want to test your water. This one by API is a good starter kit at an affordable price. http://www.amazon.com/API-FRESHWATER-MASTER-TEST-KIT/dp/B000255NCI/ref=pd_sim_petsupplies_16
 
HumblePie said:
Prime says it detoxes everything...

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2753920&lmdn=SHOP+FOR

same with stress zyme

http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2754033


Ad I did take it into a petshop 🙂 That's how I found out it was spiked high in ammonia in the first place.


Again, I have no problem with the ammonia if it is getting my bacteria growing. But the fact that there is ridiculous levels of ammonia in my tank for a week without me putting it there or putting something in there to generate it has me scratching my head. I don't want whatever is making the ammonia levels ridiculous to continue to keep doing so or I might have a problem adding fish later. I also have zero nitrites and nitrates. Not a damn thing in there after a week of ammonia in the water. Zero bacteria growth at all. Which is the other part of the problem. I'll let the tank sit all this week and see what happens I guess.
Click to expand...

i recommend reading the link i gave you. also, as others have said, the tank is brand new. it takes a bit for the biocycle to get set. plus, with no fish in there, you are missing a big component to the cycle. try putting a goldfish or two in there (they are cheap and hardy). it might help get the cycle started and leveled a bit. at least that way if they die, it's only goldfish.

and no offense to any petsmart employees, but i'd try going to a shop that specializes in only aquariums and talk to them and have them do a water test. it's been a while since i had a big aquarium so names are escaping me, but i do remember the shop i bought from recommended completely different test kits than the standard ones the chain pet stores have.

good luck!!
 
KidNiki1 said:
i recommend reading the link i gave you. also, as others have said, the tank is brand new. it takes a bit for the biocycle to get set. plus, with no fish in there, you are missing a big component to the cycle. try putting a goldfish or two in there (they are cheap and hardy). it might help get the cycle started and leveled a bit. at least that way if they die, it's only goldfish.

and no offense to any petsmart employees, but i'd try going to a shop that specializes in only aquariums and talk to them and have them do a water test. it's been a while since i had a big aquarium so names are escaping me, but i do remember the shop i bought from recommended completely different test kits than the standard ones the chain pet stores have.

good luck!!
Click to expand...


Lol, I also went to Alamo Aquatics and Fintique which are specialize aquarium shops around here.

http://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-...Cw&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=image&ved=0CB8Q_BI

http://fintique.home.texas.net/

I'm going to let it sit further although there should be nothing generating ammonia in the tank.

I have no problem with doing the "cycle" as needed. I was under the impression I would start seeing rising nitrite levels after a week, if not a whole lot, but they have remained at zero even with the stresszyme which is suppose to add bacteria. I also got a few gals last night of some established aquarium water and put it in there. I'm hoping I'll see some changes when I get off work today for the positive.



Again the real problem I have with the whole thing is I have no idea where the initial ammonia is coming from in the tank. I would like to know so I can control it because won't be good if there is something adding vast amounts of ammonia to the point where even the bacteria will never be able to overcome it all.
 
You're not peeing in your tank enough.


Letting the tank sit another week is a good idea, you can also keep changing the water out I suppose to see if maybe there isn't just some seeping or contaminant in the items you have in there that cleaning out often will fix.
 
bbhaag said:
I had a 75 gallon salt water tank for about 7 years. I know it's not exactely the same but I might be able to help. To me it sounds like your tank is "cycling". All new tanks do this in the very beginging stages.
Check out this link for a basic idea of what I'm talking about. My guess is that your gravel still had some organic matter on it and it kicked off a "mini cycle" in your tank. http://www.worldcichlids.com/faqs/cycling.html
Click to expand...


This guy is right on about cycling.. i have a 90 gallon tank... and it took about 1.5 months to cycle....

I am assuming this is fresh and not salt ? I dont see anything about it being a salt water tank...

If it is a salt water tank, i am assuming you are using a RODI ?
 
Where did the initial Ammonia come from?

Tap Water - No

Gravel - No

Additives - Not likely

Contaminated water? - Cat Pee?

Cleaning agents left on inside of tank? - Could be that Petsmart cleaned the tank with Windex before they put it on display. Did you rinse the tank well before adding gravel and water?

HOB Filter? - You could have bought a returned filter with organic material in the guts from a previous owner.

You should probably scrub the tank, and wash the filter good and see if your Ammonia spikes again. If it does, then break it down and rinse everything. Start from scratch so the mystery Ammonia doesn't come back.

If Ammonia doesn't come back after scrubbing tank, then see if tank will cycle.
 
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