imported_Lothar
Diamond Member
Never say never 😉
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Antispanking law
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Never say never 😉
Whoozyerdaddy
Lifer
A swat on the butt is not abuse. :roll:
judasmachine
Diamond Member
If a kid goes near an electrical outlet, and you slap their hand, it may not mean much, but the second or third time, it gets through. What are you going to do, explain physics to a baby? They have enough reasoning skills to understand "reach for that equals pain."
judasmachine
Diamond Member
Fixed
imported_Lothar
Diamond Member
So what do you propose to teach kids older than 4yrs after talking to them for the 5th time?
Letting them touch the electric outlet, and the hot pan until they decide to get burned and leave voluntarily while allowing evolution and darwinism to take it's course?
I'm interested in hearing your proposal.
Indeed. I'm extremely against spanking once kids are able to understand their actions, mostly because spanking seems like the least effective way to get kids to make good decisions on their own. However, the problem with extremely young children is that they DON'T understand their actions...you simple can't explain to a very small child why he or she shouldn't touch a hot stove, so smacking their hand might be the only way to keep them from doing it. In fact, the age range specified in this bill might be the only one where spanking (or a slap on the hand or whatever) makes sense.
That being said, I think spanking becomes abuse the second there are other alternatives. I don't think a few smacks on the butt are as bad as some of the crap that parents do to their kids, and I'm not sure the right answer is a law banning spanking, but I think the parents who employ spanking could benefit from a few parenting classes. It might be their choice, but it's a bad one.
Zebo
Elite Member
This is why kids run amok today already and as adults our society is so screwed up with killers, rapists, thieves, car jackings, road rage, jails are packed etc. Schools don't paddle.. teacher won't hit your hands etc. Teaching early on which stays with the child for a lifetime there are no real consequences for antisocial and poor behavior. Go back 50 years ago or to a place like Singapore today who'd still uses corporal punishment when nessesary and crime rates were nill a serial murderer was unheard of. Children themselves were and are in places which don't spare the rod much much better behaved....All of USA society change for the worse is the cause of Dr. Spock (whos kids were totally screwed up) and his ideology and ethos of non discipline, non standards, there can be no failures etc has led to a catastrophic fall in standards and behavior. 99% of kids don't ever need to be paddled but the threat should always be there for severe behavior problems. I am very lucky never had to spank as it would break my heart but I would if I had some of these children I see coming over to the house on occasion. Foul mouthed calling their Moms bitches etc would only happen once with me.
You don't think the decline in the amount of parenting, of ANY kind, that goes on in this country has anything to do with those problems? There is a pretty well documented change in the amount of time parents today spend, well, parenting...and it seems to me that this would be more important than how they discipline their kids in the 5 minutes they spend with them each day.
The basic idea that spanking results in good kids, and good adults, is fundamentally flawed. Proponents of spanking suggest that by having severe physical consequences of their actions, kids learn to do the right thing. But that's crap, because what you are REALLY teaching them is to avoid getting spanked. "Don't steal because I'll smack the crap out of you" is fine, until the kid thinks they can get away with it. How that lesson transfers into "don't steal because it's wrong" is something that you folks just never seem to get around to explaining. And doesn't it seem likely that you're also teaching your kids that violence is the answer, if you're stronger than someone, they have to do what you say. This idea is laughed at, but you find a bully in school and 10 to 1 they are one of the more spanked kids in school.
I won't disagree that discipline is important for kids, but I think PHYSICAL discipline is the least effective thing parents can be doing. And given the parenting problems facing our society, I think about the worst thing we could be telling bad parents is that things will be better if they just smack their kids around more.
Zebo
Elite Member
No I said 100% for a reason. We know what worked mind you when a father would barely talk to a son back in the day let alone cajole/parent him so I disagree with your thesis about less parenting today too. We have too much parenting and too much treating them like babies all thoughout their childhood and they continue being children as adults. I also disagree with the idea that discipline of any kind is "REALLY teaching them is to avoid getting spanked..until the kid thinks they can get away with it". Kids arnt stupid they can immediately associate thier behavior as wrong whether you sit them in a corner, ground them or paddle them, all forms of discipline, all unpleasant for the child. Spanking is more effective and immediate than others because it carries along with it a physical sensory response in addition to the emotional response the others carry.
They laugh because it's ridiculous. No more than time out or grounding is teaching them kidnapping is the answer. Again kids are smart they recognize your role as a parent is to make them into successful adults and disciplinary methods are nessesary along that path and is isolated to the unique relationship. Not abuse of course which should be prosecuted. And kids bully because they can get away with it under current educational and school regimes. Most were never spanked from my experience it's just because they are are bigger/stronger/faster or more popular they recognize they can't intimidate the smaller/less popular children and do it because there are no consequences but warnings.
I tell you what, it sickens me to see a grown man trying to reason with a 3 year old in the grocery store. When kids are at that age they cannot be reasoned with. While spanking might not be the best method, it has worked for thousands of years. Many of us were raised in this way and we turned out fine.
This will lead to nothing than more spoiled brat, entitlement types; our society doesn't need anymore of those, the quota is full.
This will lead to nothing than more spoiled brat, entitlement types; our society doesn't need anymore of those, the quota is full.
judasmachine
Diamond Member
I couldn't agree more. The second they start understanding their actions alternatives to negative reinforcement should be sought.
judasmachine
Diamond Member
wow, calm down man. i agree that spanking is bad, but when you have kids you come back here and tell me how their doing with logic and reasoning at two years old. spanking once they learn to speak and understand their actions, then yes positive reinforcement is the way to go. but hauling people to jail as child abusers for slapping a wrist of their just recently crawling children is absurd.
judasmachine
Diamond Member
oh god, i'm going to prison for a loooonnnnnggggg time.
CPA
Elite Member
Best post in this thread.
I love how on one hand people say "But they're just children", but on the other hand people want parents to treat them and respect them like adults.
I've raised 4 kids. For one, we have concluded that spanking does not work (he was bad whether we spanked him or not) and we've stopped it. We use other methods that seem to work, but he's still a "problem" child. On the others, one we have rarely had to spank (I can't recall the last time we did), another we've spanked sporadically and the last we spanked judiciously. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. That's how kids are, they're different. Sometimes a spanking works, sometimes pulling the ear or grabbing the lock of hair in the back of their head or just the look of anger and a stern "You will NOT do....." or "You will do....". But, the one thing I've found that rarely, if ever works, is explaining the rationality behind my demands/wishes. They are/were too young to understand the logic.
CityShrimp
Member
I don't have a kid yet, but having a family is one of my goal's in life, so sometimes I wonder how I would treat my child in the future. My grandpa had a no-spanking policy (even though he spanked my dad and uncles) on his grandchildren, so me, my sister, and my cousins never experienced spanking, yet we grew up just fine. Whenever we did anything wrong (even when we're 0-3 years old), a mean frown would usually shut us up. I really don't want to spank my kids, but it worries me since I see so many disobedient kids that could only be controlled through spanking.
Anyways, even though I don't think spanking is good, I find that there is no reason to have a no-spanking law, since some kids only understands physical pain at a young age. And I think spanking should be allowed IF a parent finds that nothing else is working.
soccerballtux
Lifer
Some kids don't need to be spanked a lot. Some do. I was part of the latter crowd. In parenting there are far too many things on the table to be able to make a universal decision that "no spanking" is a good policy.
Kids just don't want to do what they're told sometimes, despite it being best for them.
This law is stupid.
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