Anti-War T-Shirt Illegal In Arizona

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: SilthDraeth

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
I see nothing wrong with selling anti-war T-Shirts.

But to use those people names without permission is wrong and in bad taste.

QFT

QFT x2

QFT x 3 :thumbsdown:

He doesn't need OTHER PEOPLE'S NAMES of his shirts he sells for money. He can just list the number of dead etc.

THEIR NAME'S are not HIS property. He is using THIER names to support HIS position and make money WITHOUT their permission (or their relatives - wives, children etc.)

Fern

I can understand regarding this one person, but that isn't reason to make that law. If that person does something wrong then sue HIM. The law prevents people with rights from doing what they should be able to do because of the actions of someone else, and is therefore wrong.

For instance: let's say that a soldier is injured in Iraq and with his dying breath asked his family to use his memory to help stop the war. The family prints a t-shirt with his name on it and anti-war slogans. Under this law have they committed a crime? If they have then the law needs to be repealed immediately, or changed to allow people to voluntarily offer names for use in protest.

 

[Theb]

I wish people wouldn't do things like this. In addition to being in really bad taste I think it's an ineffective way to protest, I'd be shocked to learn that this influenced anyone's opinion about the war, I think it just makes us look a little more like douche bags to the prowar people.

 

[Mean MrMustard]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: SilthDraeth

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
I see nothing wrong with selling anti-war T-Shirts.

But to use those people names without permission is wrong and in bad taste.

QFT

QFT x2

QFT x 3 :thumbsdown:

He doesn't need OTHER PEOPLE'S NAMES of his shirts he sells for money. He can just list the number of dead etc.

THEIR NAME'S are not HIS property. He is using THIER names to support HIS position and make money WITHOUT their permission (or their relatives - wives, children etc.)

Fern

Interesting, I guess newspapers must be banned too. Uh oh, AT Forums must be banned also, becuase of the 'Names of the Dead' thread...

 

[Mean MrMustard]

Originally posted by: DonVito
The law is clearly, obviously unconstitutional. Whether or not the shirts are in good taste (and I can certainly understand and respect why some of the decedent's families would object to this), this is protected free speech, and it isn't a close call.

Agreed.

Hell, they may not even have to open the book for this one.

 

[aka1nas]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: SilthDraeth

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
I see nothing wrong with selling anti-war T-Shirts.

But to use those people names without permission is wrong and in bad taste.

QFT

QFT x2

QFT x 3 :thumbsdown:

He doesn't need OTHER PEOPLE'S NAMES of his shirts he sells for money. He can just list the number of dead etc.

THEIR NAME'S are not HIS property. He is using THIER names to support HIS position and make money WITHOUT their permission (or their relatives - wives, children etc.)

Fern

I can understand regarding this one person, but that isn't reason to make that law. If that person does something wrong then sue HIM. The law prevents people with rights from doing what they should be able to do because of the actions of someone else, and is therefore wrong.

For instance: let's say that a soldier is injured in Iraq and with his dying breath asked his family to use his memory to help stop the war. The family prints a t-shirt with his name on it and anti-war slogans. Under this law have they committed a crime? If they have then the law needs to be repealed immediately, or changed to allow people to voluntarily offer names for use in protest.

Regardless, that is a matter for civil court should the families of the dead soldiers decide to sue. There is zero reason for making this a criminal issue.

 

[daveshel]

Originally posted by: DonVito
The law is clearly, obviously unconstitutional. Whether or not the shirts are in good taste (and I can certainly understand and respect why some of the decedent's families would object to this), this is protected free speech, and it isn't a close call.

I don't think it's that clear or obvious. There's money being made in a commercial venture, so it isn't a case of purely political speech. He couldn't sell a t-shirt with my face on it without my permission. Those soldiers did not voluntarily place themselves in the public eye like a celebrity or politician.

This will be interesting to follow.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: palehorse74
they also died for you.. and me... and every other American.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

What a crock of sh1t. Iraq never posed a threat; there were no WMDs. They died to line the coffers of war profiteers; nothing more, nothing less.

100% correct. They served for me, as I did for them...but they went to war for a lie, for ignorance, for greed...for nothing.

 

[bctbct]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

What a crock of sh1t. Iraq never posed a threat; there were no WMDs. They died to line the coffers of war profiteers; nothing more, nothing less.

Sounds harsh, but accurate.

 

[IronWing]

This law is lame. A law that I would support would hold elected officials personally liable for all court costs that arise from passing patently unconstitutional laws in the same way that private citizens can get slapped for filing frivolous lawsuits. Most elected officials have been to law school, they know they are passing junk laws, and they should pay for their grandstanding. It is ridiculous that taxpayers bear the costs of litigating "fashion statement" laws.

 

[IEC]

Ah, how our constitutional rights have fallen...

Profiting off of others' misfortune is nonetheless morally repugnant.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: SilthDraeth

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
I see nothing wrong with selling anti-war T-Shirts.

But to use those people names without permission is wrong and in bad taste.

QFT

QFT x2

QFT x 3 :thumbsdown:

He doesn't need OTHER PEOPLE'S NAMES of his shirts he sells for money. He can just list the number of dead etc.

THEIR NAME'S are not HIS property. He is using THIER names to support HIS position and make money WITHOUT their permission (or their relatives - wives, children etc.)

Fern

while what he is doing is disgusting he has the right. Its not a matter of useing other peoples names. he is useing a factual list of those that died.

the family's can't sue. the goverment can't ban it.

 

[jman19]

The guy is a total asshat but the law is stupid. The irony is that the gov't wants to legislate against free speech when the product involved mentions the names of soldiers who died to try and bring freedom to the Iraqi people (or so says the Dub...).

 

[Jaskalas]

the Senate agreed to make it punishable by up to a year in jail to use the names of deceased soldiers to help sell goods.

:thumbsup:

Good for Arizona.

BTW, nice spin on the topic title. Might as well claim we're Nazi Germany while you're at it.

 

[jman19]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

the Senate agreed to make it punishable by up to a year in jail to use the names of deceased soldiers to help sell goods.

:thumbsup:

Good for Arizona.

BTW, nice spin on the topic title. Might as well claim we're Nazi Germany while you're at it.

See my post.

Why should the speech of the maker of these t-shirts be squashed in this case?

I am not defending this guy, I am only asking as a matter of legality.

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: SilthDraeth

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
I see nothing wrong with selling anti-war T-Shirts.

But to use those people names without permission is wrong and in bad taste.

QFT

QFT x2

QFT x 3 :thumbsdown:

He doesn't need OTHER PEOPLE'S NAMES of his shirts he sells for money. He can just list the number of dead etc.

THEIR NAME'S are not HIS property. He is using THIER names to support HIS position and make money WITHOUT their permission (or their relatives - wives, children etc.)

Fern

while what he is doing is disgusting he has the right. Its not a matter of useing other peoples names. he is useing a factual list of those that died.

the family's can't sue. the goverment can't ban it.

Elvis died and I can't use his name.

 

[Deleted member 4644]

This has to be the worst law made in the last 50 years.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: ayabe
Shouldn't throw them in jail, but the families do have a right to sue for 100% of the proceeds, I think that's fair.

Why should the families have a claim? The collective impact of the names of 3000 dead soldiers is what sells the T-shirts, not the name of any individual solder.

When a major network televises the Rose Parade or Mardis Gras or a fireworks display on the national mall - and thereby profits from the ad revenue generated - do you think a member of the crowd who doesn't want to be included should be able to sue the networks for 100% of the proceeds?

And think about the implications of this law: Everyone agrees that I have a right to wear in public - as a political statement - a T-shirt with the names of the soldiers killed in Iraq. But unless I have a way of creating such a T-shirt myself, there's no way in the State of Arizona for me to accomplish that objective: Is it really rational to expect someone to provide me with such a T-shirt for free?

This legislation is just one more example of the "we support the troops" B.S. that looks good at election time.

If the State of Arizona really wanted to pass a meaningful law that would protect rights on all sides, they'd create an "opt out" list: The family of any dead solder could indicate that they didn't want the name of a loved one included in commercial products. That way, an entrepreneur could restrict the list to just non-opted-out names.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Skoorb

It's no different then the people who sell the magnetic ribbons to put on their cars. It could be argued just as effectively that they are making money off the war so we better make that illegal too.

Spot-on.

I've never seen a magnetic ribbon with a dead soldier's name on it.

I thought about this and came to the conclusion that if someone were making money from the name of just one... or evan a select few dead soldiers then you would have a point. Since this man is including ALL the dead soldiers collectively then he should be free to do so.

 

[1EZduzit]

It looks like some Congressmen have gotten in on the act:

U.S. Congressman Dan Boren today announced legislation to prohibit the unauthorized commercial use of names and images of American service men and women. H.R. 5755, the Soldiers Targeted by Offensive Profiteering Act (STOP Act), comes as vendors of anti-war merchandise continue to use the names and images of soldiers in products without permission despite objections from those soldiers? families.

U.S. Representative Charles W. Boustany, Jr. (R-LA) and U.S. Representative Geoff Davis (R-KY) today introduced legislation that would ban the unauthorized use of a deceased soldier's name or image for commercial or political purpose. The Military Fallen Heroes Protection Act of 2006 (H.R. 5772) comes in response to recent commercial and political use of names and images of fallen soldiers without the expressed consent from their families.

H.R.269 Title: To amend title 10, United States Code, to direct the Secretary of Defense to prohibit the unauthorized use of names and images of members of the Armed Forces. Sponsor: Rep Boren, Dan [OK-2

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Skoorb

It's no different then the people who sell the magnetic ribbons to put on their cars. It could be argued just as effectively that they are making money off the war so we better make that illegal too.

Spot-on.

I've never seen a magnetic ribbon with a dead soldier's name on it.

I thought about this and came to the conclusion that if someone were making money from the name of just one... or evan a select few dead soldiers then you would have a point. Since this man is including ALL the dead soldiers collectively then he should be free to do so.

That's a pretty fuzzy, arbitrary line though.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Harvey
If you're not pissed that your friend, and 3,610 others (as of July 11, 2007), died for Bush's lies, you're one heartless SOB.

They didn't just die for Bush; they also died for you.. and me... and every other American.

never forget that and please stop belittling their sacrifice.

Speak for yourself. They didn't die for me. Their death was wasted and has put us in even more danger...

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
It looks like some Congressmen have gotten in on the act:

U.S. Congressman Dan Boren today announced legislation to prohibit the unauthorized commercial use of names and images of American service men and women. H.R. 5755, the Soldiers Targeted by Offensive Profiteering Act (STOP Act), comes as vendors of anti-war merchandise continue to use the names and images of soldiers in products without permission despite objections from those soldiers? families.

U.S. Representative Charles W. Boustany, Jr. (R-LA) and U.S. Representative Geoff Davis (R-KY) today introduced legislation that would ban the unauthorized use of a deceased soldier's name or image for commercial or political purpose. The Military Fallen Heroes Protection Act of 2006 (H.R. 5772) comes in response to recent commercial and political use of names and images of fallen soldiers without the expressed consent from their families.

H.R.269 Title: To amend title 10, United States Code, to direct the Secretary of Defense to prohibit the unauthorized use of names and images of members of the Armed Forces. Sponsor: Rep Boren, Dan [OK-2

What about all te "profiteering" of war by the War Corporations and Republican party?

Just another straw on the Camels back towards revolution.

Keep it up guys, you've forgotten you represent the people and the Constitution, both of which you are trashing.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: SilthDraeth

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
I see nothing wrong with selling anti-war T-Shirts.

But to use those people names without permission is wrong and in bad taste.

QFT

QFT x2

QFT x 3 :thumbsdown:

He doesn't need OTHER PEOPLE'S NAMES of his shirts he sells for money. He can just list the number of dead etc.

THEIR NAME'S are not HIS property. He is using THIER names to support HIS position and make money WITHOUT their permission (or their relatives - wives, children etc.)

Fern

You don't need someone's permission to make a shirt about them.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
It looks like some Congressmen have gotten in on the act:

U.S. Congressman Dan Boren today announced legislation to prohibit the unauthorized commercial use of names and images of American service men and women. H.R. 5755, the Soldiers Targeted by Offensive Profiteering Act (STOP Act), comes as vendors of anti-war merchandise continue to use the names and images of soldiers in products without permission despite objections from those soldiers? families.

U.S. Representative Charles W. Boustany, Jr. (R-LA) and U.S. Representative Geoff Davis (R-KY) today introduced legislation that would ban the unauthorized use of a deceased soldier's name or image for commercial or political purpose. The Military Fallen Heroes Protection Act of 2006 (H.R. 5772) comes in response to recent commercial and political use of names and images of fallen soldiers without the expressed consent from their families.

H.R.269 Title: To amend title 10, United States Code, to direct the Secretary of Defense to prohibit the unauthorized use of names and images of members of the Armed Forces. Sponsor: Rep Boren, Dan [OK-2

I love the names of these bills.

Sometimes free speech offends. If it does, I'll live with it.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Skoorb

It's no different then the people who sell the magnetic ribbons to put on their cars. It could be argued just as effectively that they are making money off the war so we better make that illegal too.

Spot-on.

I've never seen a magnetic ribbon with a dead soldier's name on it.

I thought about this and came to the conclusion that if someone were making money from the name of just one... or evan a select few dead soldiers then you would have a point. Since this man is including ALL the dead soldiers collectively then he should be free to do so.

That's a pretty fuzzy, arbitrary line though.

It's not arbitrary. It is the complete list of all the soldiers who died in Iraq.

How can you say that is arbitrary?