anti-war protesters: please give me a fact that supports your argument

[conjur]

Originally posted by: seawolf21

What we did was take 1441 and decided to enforce point 1 and pretend everything else after that didn?t exist even though we signed off on the entire resolution last year. How does that make this legal? It only shows the world that when we don't get our way, we will just pick and choose the pieces of a resolution that fit our agenda.

Good point.

 

[Moonbeam]

It's all Saddam's fault we bombed him. He has his hand on the button and we can't control him. It's terrible the way he's killing his own people with our bombs. He is really really bad.

 

[drewshin]

the u.s. knew they had a second resolution to use force, but they soon found out that they couldnt even get a simple majority, so they bypassed that and went directly to war (never mind france's veto, they would have some bargaining power if they could have gotten a majority).

 

[LunarRay]

If it is true that there does not exist a final authority that all nations subscribe too regarding the conduct of a nation and the penalty that the leadership thereof must endure as a consequence of that conduct we are left with the authority inherent with power. That seems to be the case. The US, being the most powerfull nation, therefore, makes the rules. The voters of this nation at a time subsequent oust or reafirm the actions of its government... a bit late in most cases but moderated by the voice of protest as in this case. If enough protest is heard the course of actions will be changed or at least modified. It is, therefore, up to you and I to determine what, if anything, should be done to preserve the freedom we and perhaps others enjoy... we have the stick. Remember the edict of Bush the elder... one world order.... In that, I think, he set forth a philosophy that materially affects the nations of the world who are materially differn't than us.. Iraq is differn't. The hawks of a decade ago reared their heads with power and a new president.. You may not like that but he was elected and with that goes the rest.

 

[Moonbeam]

He wasn't elected, he was selected. He said he'd be a uniter and govern from the center. He's a fraud, a liar and a divider.

 

[Morph]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
It's all Saddam's fault we bombed him. He has his hand on the button and we can't control him. It's terrible the way he's killing his own people with our bombs. He is really really bad.

🙂

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
He wasn't elected, he was selected. He said he'd be a uniter and govern from the center. He's a fraud, a liar and a divider.

Yup! He was selected and therefore, elected. He is bringing us together... well some of us.. for a trip to the mid east somewhere near the center... to meet a fraud, liar and divider and squish him. He, Bush, is a decent man enacting a policy that his advisors have determined is in our best interest... I for one am glad it is him at the helm rather than Jimmy Carter... but I'd go for 8 more years of Bill.
(this should raise an eyebrow)

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
He wasn't elected, he was selected. He said he'd be a uniter and govern from the center. He's a fraud, a liar and a divider.

Please return to your bridge. I'm sick of reading your trolling posts:disgust:

You don't post info - only statements clad with innuendos with intent to infuriate others. Please go away.

kthxbye

CkG

 

[Moonbeam]

But CAD, I was deeply offended by HJD1's assertion that Bush was elected. I was correctiong a factual error with fact. You must not let me get my finger on your emotional buttons. I'm like Saddam, I'll blow up people with your own weapons. Im very very bad. It's all my fault you have those buttons right out there on the open, I know. I'm especially dangerous for you in particular because I drive a CAD. I know where all the controls are. 😀

 

[Moonbeam]

By the way CAD, you didn't post info - only a statements clad with innuendos with intent to infuriate me. It didn't work. My buttons were all blown away by smart bombs of my own design.

 

[DX2Player]

I truly dont understand the Anti-American setiment. What other country spends so much money to feed the hungry and protect the innocent. This war will free a people from horrible dictator regardless of any political undertone. How would you like to go and live over there under his rule after living in a free nation and see how sympathetic you are then. Do you believe that Saddam with the power of America would act in the same way. We spend billion using expensive technology to target only war objectives. We give thousands of flyers to the peoples of iraq telling them how to protect themselfs. We provide food for those that are in need. Then they abuse our sincirety and guise themselfs in surrender while preparing to attack. Any innocent citizen should have left if they valued their life, and if they were not allowed to leave than that shows the nature of the regeime and furthers the reason for overthough. I was in Paris on spring break just under two weeks ago. I watched news from both sides, frankly both are biased but to expect otherwise is ignorance.

Im not all pro war either. Maybe we should have not have gone to war till more concrete evidence of WMD was made avalible. Undermining the athority of the UN is not good, we basically created it and the next time we need the support of its athority on our side its power might be lost. Others will use the excuse of well if they can we can.

With that said once we have engaged in war and have troops over there for a good cause, I think its quite unreasonable to damn our own solders. Im no big fan of bush but that has nothing to do with being apropriatly patriotic. We are not a terrible nation and I believe that most of the hatred against us is in the form of jealousy. I do not resort to hating nations or races with such ignorance. I can only be brought to hate individuals.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
But CAD, I was deeply offended by HJD1's assertion that Bush was elected. I was correctiong a factual error with fact.

That's where your delusions kick in again, moonbeam.

You see, Bush was elected President of the United States of America. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Deal with it.

 

[Moonbeam]

DX2, you don't understand the anti-American sentiment.... Can you understand this. Bush and his bozos have invented an illegal and immoral doctrine of preemptive war that threatens the entire human race and especially us, the US. The moment nations are free to determine for themselves who and what is a threat via their own paranoia or greed, we will see a first strike nuclear attack on us one day. After our agression on Iraq we can legitimately be seen as a threat by anybody who has the fortitude to risk the attack. They are perfectly justified to try. We would in their place. This insane doctrine is counter to everything we have worked for as a country for decades, the establishment of international law and order. Bush is a catastrophe. He may even be the Beast, no? Isn't it a perfect fit?

 

[Moonbeam]

conjur, you'll have to deal with the fact he lost in Florida and only got put in because the Supreme Coup stopped the count instead of working to know who really got the most votes. Only the person with the most votes is supposed to win. That person was Gore. That was proved from an independent recount of the whole state.

 

[jpbushido99]

Hi everyone, I just want to voice my opinion nothing more. Please don't attack me, I respect that you have an opinion and it definitely should be heard. I believe Saddam has killed thousands of his own people or peasants as called by the republican guard, simply to instill fear and respect for his regime, among many other issues. I feel that saddam and/or his regime has taken daughters from mothers and fathers, for their own amusement, such as rape. I believe saddam has terrorized the Iraqi people for several decades, and created a climate of absolute fear for his regime. I believe that saddam could give a crap about human rights, or fairness, since all or most of his top aids and regime conglomerates have been either relatives, or have been from his hometown. I believe that saddam has been amassing weapons of mass destruction; either nuclear or biological so that when the time is right he will strike and destroy those who appose his regime. I believe that saddam would kill and destroy anything he could to remain in power. Most of us have only heard little snippets of the brutality of the Saddam regime, but imagine all of the horrible killings and terrorizing that the poor (literally and figuratively) Iraqi people have had to endure. For example we are just starting to see how horrible the republican guard is, a woman waved to an American soldier, and was hanged because of her opinion. Could any of you imagine being killed in this day in age because of what you believe in? I am sure the majority of poor Iraqi people want the US to save them from this horrible man. Hey if we get some oil money from this war then great, but I sure as hell know that those Iraqi people will be much better off and happier, when saddam and his horrible regime are destroyed.

 

[DX2Player]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
DX2, you don't understand the anti-American sentiment.... Can you understand this. Bush and his bozos have invented an illegal and immoral doctrine of preemptive war that threatens the entire human race and especially us, the US. The moment nations are free to determine for themselves who and what is a threat via their own paranoia or greed, we will see a first strike nuclear attack on us one day. After our agression on Iraq we can legitimately be seen as a threat by anybody who has the fortitude to risk the attack. They are perfectly justified to try. We would in their place. This insane doctrine is counter to everything we have worked for as a country for decades, the establishment of international law and order. Bush is a catastrophe. He may even be the Beast, no? Isn't it a perfect fit?

You seem to be driven by something other than rational thought. I myself dont like Bush and voted for Gore and live in FL, I seemed to get over it though. You are being somewhat overdramatic about the end of the world deal. Weather or not this war is legal by the standards of the UN its hardly immoral. It is more immoral to ignore the atrocities performed on these people than remove a inhumane regieme. I do understand the potential backlash of the international community unto our nation and hope that all people from all sides become more understanding, any potental attack on us as a reaction to our helping another people will ultimatly be the fault of overused jealous propaganda. Abolish lines of race and country, unify under one belief and one tougne. But unfortunatly that is in impossiblity in our life time. You can hate me for being born an American but I wont hate you for being born anyware else.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
conjur, you'll have to deal with the fact he lost in Florida and only got put in because the Supreme Coup stopped the count instead of working to know who really got the most votes. Only the person with the most votes is supposed to win. That person was Gore. That was proved from an independent recount of the whole state.

Sorry, moonbeam, again you are wrong. Even the Miami Herald's recount showed Bush still as the victor. Only when counting dubious marks as a vote did Gore show a slight lead. And you call the way Palm Beach County was determining votes as a legal process, much less a logical one?? That Carol Roberts was blatantly in Al Gore's pocket.

 

[etech]

Moonie is just trolling again.

He cannot in any way prove that the USSC vote affected the outcome of the election. He just likes to post this when a thread is not going the way he wants. It distracts from the thread, is untrue and yet he still posts it. Trolling is the only term applicable to that activity.

 

[E3Art]

I am a military member, currently deployed in the middle east. We hear a lot of news about all the anti-war protestors over here, and although I know you are a very small minority, it is still disheartening to many of us to know that we don't have the support of our countrymen. It makes me sick to see people protesting against the United States. You state reasons like: were just over there to get there oil, or we only want to take over the middle east, or what about all the innocent people that will die. Well let me reassure you, we are not over here for oil, or to take over the middle east, and what about all the innocent Americans who have already died because of cowardly terrorist and the governments that will support them. We are over here to fight injustice, we are over here to protect our homeland, we are over here because millions of people do not have the freedom to sit at home on their computer and protest against their own country. I would be interested to know how many of the anti war protestors have ever been to the middle east. I would be interested to know if you have ever seen how the people of Iraq are forced to live, without even the basic medical supplies and sometimes even food. I would be interested to know if you know that the dictator of Iraq has killed more Muslims than a war with Iraq ever will. We don't just fight to remove a real and ever increasing threat to the United States,( and don't be disillusioned, if Sadam is allowed to produce weapons of mass destruction, you better believe he would do everything in his power to use them on us) we fight for freedom, not just for our own but for those who cant fight for themselves. I don't begrudge you your point of view. I and countless others like me have fought so that you can sit there and protest us. it wouldn't freedom if you didn't have that right. I just wish you could spend a week in the middle east and then maybe you would find out what freedom is all about. Maybe that would change your perspective and you would realize that there are things in life worth fighting for, and if you still don't agree you could always go live in France....they don't fight for anything.

I leave you with a quote. I don't know who said it, but I like it.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed
> and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks
> that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has
> nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more
> important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature
> and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions
of
> better men than himself.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: etech
Moonie is just trolling again.

He cannot in any way prove that the USSC vote affected the outcome of the election. He just likes to post this when a thread is not going the way he wants. It distracts from the thread, is untrue and yet he still posts it. Trolling is the only term applicable to that activity.

Hence my "informing" him to return to his bridge😉 😀. I am sick of reading through Threads and them coming to posts by our friendly man on the moon that do nothing but promote flame wars and spout anecdotes of mindless proportions.

I now return this thread to it's regularly scheduled interruptions

CkG

Edit - It's friday and IT won't repair my spell checker until monday so I have to do it myself 😛

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: DX2Player

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
DX2, you don't understand the anti-American sentiment.... Can you understand this. Bush and his bozos have invented an illegal and immoral doctrine of preemptive war that threatens the entire human race and especially us, the US. The moment nations are free to determine for themselves who and what is a threat via their own paranoia or greed, we will see a first strike nuclear attack on us one day. After our agression on Iraq we can legitimately be seen as a threat by anybody who has the fortitude to risk the attack. They are perfectly justified to try. We would in their place. This insane doctrine is counter to everything we have worked for as a country for decades, the establishment of international law and order. Bush is a catastrophe. He may even be the Beast, no? Isn't it a perfect fit?

You seem to be driven by something other than rational thought. I myself dont like Bush and voted for Gore and live in FL, I seemed to get over it though. You are being somewhat overdramatic about the end of the world deal. Weather or not this war is legal by the standards of the UN its hardly immoral. It is more immoral to ignore the atrocities performed on these people than remove a inhumane regieme. I do understand the potential backlash of the international community unto our nation and hope that all people from all sides become more understanding, any potental attack on us as a reaction to our helping another people will ultimatly be the fault of overused jealous propaganda. Abolish lines of race and country, unify under one belief and one tougne. But unfortunatly that is in impossiblity in our life time. You can hate me for being born an American but I wont hate you for being born anyware else.

Well then, everyone seems to be OVERLOOKING the fact that Saddam is NOT the "worst" dictator (N. Korea's is worse to its people AND they have nuclear reactors) and we are NOT going into Iraq to help its people - this is a "wHoly) Economic War for oil . . . Bush IS keeping his campaign promises - to the people who matter - HIS BIG BUSINESS SUPPORTERS.

What Bush can't comprehend is that the Iraqis prefer the "devil (Saddam) they know" to the "devil (Bush) they don't know". And the coalition cannot understand what they have UNLEASHED in Iraq . . . we have a MAJOR CATASTROPHE - i.e. MILLIONS of DEAD - in the making.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
conjur, you'll have to deal with the fact he lost in Florida and only got put in because the Supreme Coup stopped the count instead of working to know who really got the most votes. Only the person with the most votes is supposed to win. That person was Gore. That was proved from an independent recount of the whole state.

Mr Moonbeam,
If the underlying premise to the argument you propound is based on Mr Bush having become president without having legal claim thereto, I can understand it and may concur with the impact of subsequent events that I didn't support, however, the taking of the oath of office regardless of the issues that lead up to that point still make him the president and his acts are the acts of the president. I still may or may not support those subsequent events but it has little to do with who or how an individual become president.. The nature of the issue (Iraq) is the same. If Mrs Bush had not married George the elder we'd not have this war going on... so..... it is all her fault!!! Conversly, If Ronald Reagan had a better film career we'd be at war with the USSR and this issue would be moot..

 

[SebastianK]

Tell me where exactly those two points states them, please. I don't have the patient to wade through verbage I know already.

Originally posted by: palad
OK, how about the that according to the UN Charter, there are only two times it is legal to invade a sovereign nation: 1. When it is in direct self-defense of an unprovoked attack, and 2. When a UN Security Council resolution has been passed approving the replacement of the regime. Neither of these conditions has been met with respect to Iraq. (BTW, according to all sources, there is no evidence linking Iraq to the 9/11 attacks. There may have been some overtures made, but there were ideological differences which prevented Saddam and bin Laden from allying.)

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Well then, everyone seems to be OVERLOOKING the fact that Saddam is NOT the "worst" dictator (N. Korea's is worse to its people AND they have nuclear reactors) and we are NOT going into Iraq to help its people - this is a "wHoly) Economic War for oil . . . Bush IS keeping his campaign promises - to the people who matter - HIS BIG BUSINESS SUPPORTERS.

What Bush can't comprehend is that the Iraqis prefer the "devil (Saddam) they know" to the "devil (Bush) they don't know". And the coalition cannot understand what they have UNLEASHED in Iraq . . . we have a MAJOR CATASTROPHE - i.e. MILLIONS of DEAD - in the making.

Not OVERLOOKING North Korea. China and Japan (and the UN) are best at dealing with North Korea at this point. Saddam is in violation of numerous UN resolutions and it is past time to deal with him.

The Iraqis don't prefer Saddam over Bush. They would prefer neither but only fear Bush for fear the U.S. will occupy Iraq for a long-time once Saddam is removed from power. That is what several Iraqi exiles have said in various radio/tv/print interviews and I take their word more than yours.

Once Saddam is removed and a UN/Iraqi government is in place, fears of U.S. will subside.

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
But CAD, I was deeply offended by HJD1's assertion that Bush was elected. I was correctiong a factual error with fact.

That's where your delusions kick in again, moonbeam.

You see, Bush was elected President of the United States of America. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Deal with it.

Have you ever read moonbeams sig dude:

The above is probably just my usual sarcasm and in no way reflects my real opinion (and,or) may include subtleties of sufficient rarity as to appear to the unsuspecting like total gibberish.