I think we would be seeing more of this anti-American protesting if they were fully allowed to express themselves.
The ones in Iraq are now free to express themselves. Much has changed since the post of 3/28 to which you replied.
And, look at the results. Much rejoicing and acceptance of the U.S. troops.
I think, I know, I predict...
This from the same people who told us that women and children would be throwing themselves at our forces in Baghdad to stop the "incoming devils", resulting in horrid amounts of civilian casualties?
Having an opinion is one thing. Saying what people will or won't do and having the gall to predict what will happen is quite another, especially considering I don't believe you are in any position to know what they really believe. It's insulting to them. In fact, Morph, who predicted the unavoidable "blood bath" in Baghdad, seems to be unusually silent about it now. Hmm.
The Iranian people do not hate the United States. These protest are organized and operated by the govt. They are told what to do and what to say. Their whole revolution was based on anti-America.
I've been to Iran and when I tell that I?m from the United States, they all of a sudden love me. The govt. of Iran sucks and needs change ASAP. I was walking down the street with my girl cousin and these extremists stopped me and asked me if she was related to me. Who knows what would have happened if she wasn?t. Is the whole country extreme? No, only 5-10% (4-8 million) of them are and they are the ones with the tanks and the guns.
I was there for an anti-American protest. Govt. officials come up to you and give you free t-shirts and all these other goodies that have anti-American slogans on them. If you participate in the protest you get tickets to events and very often money. They have a guy on a microphone and he is yelling stuff and the crowd yells back. There is free food at these protest and singers and all sorts of fun activities.
If you talk bad about the govt. of Iran you get thrown in jail. It?s that simple. You don't want 90% of your population against your government so you throw a few of them in jail for life and publish it in the newspapers and people will keep shut. They sometimes get a couple guys and tie them up in the middle of the street and whip them so people will be afraid of them. If you are afraid of your own government chances are you will just mind your own business. Look at Iraq after their govt. collapsed. The people were overjoyed.
There have been a couple protests against the government of Iran by the university students, but they were quickly out numbered by the extremist and the police. A couple more of these protest and people will start to join them.
Don?t forget after September 11, Iranians went to the street with candles in memory of those who lost their lives on September 11.
I've been to Iran and when I tell that I?m from the United States, they all of a sudden love me. The govt. of Iran sucks and needs change ASAP. I was walking down the street with my girl cousin and these extremists stopped me and asked me if she was related to me. Who knows what would have happened if she wasn?t. Is the whole country extreme? No, only 5-10% (4-8 million) of them are and they are the ones with the tanks and the guns.
I was there for an anti-American protest. Govt. officials come up to you and give you free t-shirts and all these other goodies that have anti-American slogans on them. If you participate in the protest you get tickets to events and very often money. They have a guy on a microphone and he is yelling stuff and the crowd yells back. There is free food at these protest and singers and all sorts of fun activities.
If you talk bad about the govt. of Iran you get thrown in jail. It?s that simple. You don't want 90% of your population against your government so you throw a few of them in jail for life and publish it in the newspapers and people will keep shut. They sometimes get a couple guys and tie them up in the middle of the street and whip them so people will be afraid of them. If you are afraid of your own government chances are you will just mind your own business. Look at Iraq after their govt. collapsed. The people were overjoyed.
There have been a couple protests against the government of Iran by the university students, but they were quickly out numbered by the extremist and the police. A couple more of these protest and people will start to join them.
Don?t forget after September 11, Iranians went to the street with candles in memory of those who lost their lives on September 11.
Actually most of the world thinks this war is unjust. Just watch a news channel besides Fox, CNN or MSNBC to get the whole picture.
just like we are "free" to express ourselves in our own country? lets review:
a protest of mens only golf club - "free" protest is a small tucked away corner 15 feet under road grade level?
or is free protest - antiwar proponents being labeled as anti-american, anti-troops.
or is free protest - ppl who disagree with gw bush are labeled as anti-american hippies who are completely out of touch with the world.
We may not be the worst country in the world, but we have our our own probelms - and anyone who is skeptical is not an imbecile... People who stray from the common conception are neccesary and positive. I shudder to think what a monolithic society would look like. And while the US continues to consistantly speak from the moral highground we will draw the criticism from other countries. People have opinions - just because they have them, or you disagree with them doesn't make them stupid or any less important.
Criticism and discussion are positive things - name calling is not.
dew.
Red Dawn
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Bowfinger
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That's a pretty arrogant statement. You have to question why so much of the rest of the world opposes this war, especially since the people of the other industrialized countries are, on the average, better educated and better informed about world affairs than your average U.S. citizen. What do they know that we don't?
As I've told my son a dozen times, "When it's you against the world, bet on the world."
LunarRay
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- Mar 2, 2003
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[/quote]
Why would a sane Iranian leader want to establish repore with Bush and thereby increase the potential for the freedom of their people and be ousted to the happy cheers of the looting people. Same for Syria, and all the rest. They are interested in keeping the mid east a muslim stronghold and anti western.
The president of Iran is a moderate . . . at least by Iranian standards. He's a Persian Gorbachev . . . believing the future of Iran lies with meaningful Islamic democracy and progress not with the Ayatollah. Khatami wants to let some water through the dam before it breaks and floods the country. Bush and the neocon tirades against the cleric class (although often phrased against the whole country) harms Khatami and his deliberate attempts to open Iran just as much as the clerical oligarchy within Iran.
LunarRay
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My son's ex girlfriend and her father who are both from Iran express a differn't opinion. They are in exile since Reza was ousted but, do have family still there. What you enumerate here does seem plausable and consistant with the little bit I've read. You say Bush's policy is contra productive and one would assume he (Bush) would be aware and foster such a development. Hmmmm. If what you say it true the question becomes - what is afoot now.
My impression is that with our military we can tell Khatami to pound sand. Who needs him and his slowassed act. Invade, set up a US colony, end of problem. Maybe we can salvage a few in his party to run things for us. They are developing WMD, no? It would only make preemptive sense.
LunarRay
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- Mar 2, 2003
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It seems we bump into each other often.
Now then... Lunar Ray thinks that Moom Beam had a bad night. Nah... Your fueling the fire... again. We can't invade. There are simply too many camels and opinions in the way. What we could do is induce the former Soviet "stans" to invade for the ferengie right of business purpose.... the 37th law of acquisition.
Somewhere there's got to be a Ferengie law that says never give to another Ferengie what you can take for yourself, no? I wasn't having a bad night, you're right. I was adopting the first rule of my sig: "The above is probably just my usual sarcasm and in no way reflects my real opinion (and,or) may include subtleties of sufficient rarity as to appear to the unsuspecting like total gibberish." and especially the first part. I was trying to wear my Cheney thinking cap since my Bush one blew a fuse and approach the Iran problem with the Haliburton spirit of acquisition. I mean, after all, how long do you give a government to play ball with the new American century before you loose patience. And how do you keep the Fundies down on the farm after you wack the mullahs? Paint um as competition, maybe? We can't let the Russians get to warm water can we? I'm not so good at stragegery.
HJD1, by the way, while we have just started meeting like this, it seems like I've known you for ever. 
LunarRay
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It was those thought provoking statements that got me to thinking about the big picture after I first ventured onto this forum. I was very much in favor of invasion for the sake of humankind and elimination of a terrorist stronghold. Then between you and Apoppin and a few others I began to see a perspective that I had not visited in over thirty years. Being from the business world I do see this as an opportunity and from my academic perch (accounting) I only saw bean after bean. It is only when one moves back away from the picture and accepts the possibility of another rationalization does one allow ones self to become fully informed with out a material bias skewing reality into what fits a position.
I don't mean for Russia to get the warm water port they so badly want. I suggested (left handedly) the former Soviet states of "..Stan" all them muslim states that are bordering the area (transchickenstan or something).
Finally, when one surrounds ones self with "Yes" people they are myoptically viewing the world and pretty apt to stay that way. If one plays their own "Devil's Advocate" scenerio they then become realists and can be true to themselves instead of following the yellow pony because they like yellow or ponies.
LunarRay
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Originally posted by: Moonbeam
HJD1, by the way, while we have just started meeting like this, it seems like I've known you for ever.
At first I thought that you were nuts... and then... I read what you wrote... really read it. I said to myself. "Self, that sounds familiar" You see... having a preconceived notion about an issue and keeping it hidden whilst nudging the steadfast opposits to more rational thought is an art best found in the Poet. The poet then experiences a paroxysm of mirth. This I know.
Much to say here, but the tax man houls. We be back or PM if the job proves so lengthy that the thread runs bare.
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