Anti-War Movement Plan

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hagbard

Banned
Nov 30, 2000
2,775
0
0
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: etech
Hagbard, do you believe that Iraq still has hidden weapons that were banned by the UN in 1991?

I have no idea if they do or do not. Guess we'll find out shortly...hey, I'm still betting on March 22, as I have for over a month. Its about is easly to guess as anything else (ie: its not).


I edited my previous post about the same time that you answered.

What happened to the weapons that the UN knew were there in 1998 and do you believe the Saddam would unilaterally get rid of them before the inspectors came back in last November. He did not declare any weapons in the report that was submitted.

What happened to the weapons?

You don't seem to understand what I'm saying etech, I neither know nor care. Many countries have WMD, is the US going after them all? And just how hard would it be to come up with a "weapon of mass destruction"? I can think of any number of ways an amateur could pull off a WMD, and I suspect it will only get easier as time goes on and more media attention is applied. How is you government going to stop that? Okay...you tell me.





 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: hagbard

I've explained my position in my first and second post. The same applies to both Iraq and the US, but it isn't Iraq that's looking for the fight, its the US.



I understand how it can look this way to someone as blatantly biased as yourself... but Saddam commited the first criminal acts by forcing the UN out of his country and then NEVER (Caps for emphasis) chose to follow the International Laws he signed his name to after Desert Storm..

If Saddam would have complied with the ORIGINAL UN Resolutions then he could once again have the largest CONVENTIONAL Military in the world ... but instead he chose to cause troubles for the UN Inspectors TIme AND Time AGAIN.... WHY won't he follow International Law?

I know we (the U.S.) helped build him and probably helped him create WMDs...so we know what he had.. Why won'the just come clean and give it up?
 

hagbard

Banned
Nov 30, 2000
2,775
0
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: etech
Hagbard, from what you have posted I must assume that you support leaving Saddam in power in Iraq.

Is that correct?

I support doing the same with him that the US did with Stalin when he was in power, or Pol Pot, etc. Unless, of course, the US intends to take out all of our present day tyrants. Which, of course, will only backfire.

Next phony question.

It's not a phony question.

Do you support leaving Saddam in power in Iraq?

Question answered, move on.

Nope, I would like a simple yes or no answer.

Do you support leaving Saddam in power in Iraq? Yes or no?

Have you stopped beating your wife, yes or no?

I have never beat my wife.

Now do you support leaving Saddam in power in Iraq? Yes or no?

I have no opinion on Saddam.

Then Quit Bashing America

But I do have an opinion on US empire building and what is driving this war fever. If you don't like my opinion, show me where I'm wrong or ignore it.


What is this empire that you speak of?

Were is it not? Okay, maybe not the PRC, Cuba or NK. Its largely been an absentee landlord imperialism. You do what the US wants or face trade santions all the way up to bombs dropped on your country. At the very least, you get childlike insults. Now, the US is moving to the next phase. Obvioulsy, no one has read a single link I provided which isn't surprising.






 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
You don't seem to understand what I'm saying etech, I neither know nor care. Many countries have WMD, is the US going after them all? And just how hard would it be to come up with a "weapon of mass destruction"? I can think of any number of ways an amateur could pull off a WMD, and I suspect it will only get easier as time goes on and more media attention is applied. How is you government going to stop that? Okay...you tell me.

You don't care if Iraq has WMD when that is the main basis of why the UN has kept Iraq under sanctions for the past twelve years. That's very selective of you.

No, of course the US and UN are not going after all countries that have WMD, just the ones that signed a ceace-fire agreement which was contingent on that country giving them up.

Yes an amateur could but not nearly at the scale that a state-sponsored program could achieve.

The world will not stop the proliferation of WMDs by ignoring them and pretending they don't exist. They will not be stopped by encouraging countries to ignore the treaties and agreements that they have signed. If we do that then countries and people will only be emboldened to acquire and use them.

 

hagbard

Banned
Nov 30, 2000
2,775
0
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: etech
Hagbard, do you believe that Iraq still has hidden weapons that were banned by the UN in 1991?

I have no idea if they do or do not. Guess we'll find out shortly...hey, I'm still betting on March 22, as I have for over a month. Its about is easly to guess as anything else (ie: its not).

Why do you only have an opinion about America and not Saddam and Iraqi WMD Programs?<<<<<<<Seems Childish and Ignorant to me ??

I've explained my position in my first and second post. The same applies to both Iraq and the US, but it isn't Iraq that's looking for the fight, its the US.

We will just let Saddam grow in power, until he nukes someone someday. That is a much better solution.

Fantasy. Its never been about WMD...just war propaganda. France and Germany (as do the others but won't say so) know this. Few outside the US believe its anything but propaganda.








 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: etech
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: etech
Hagbard, from what you have posted I must assume that you support leaving Saddam in power in Iraq.

Is that correct?

I support doing the same with him that the US did with Stalin when he was in power, or Pol Pot, etc. Unless, of course, the US intends to take out all of our present day tyrants. Which, of course, will only backfire.

Next phony question.

It's not a phony question.

Do you support leaving Saddam in power in Iraq?

Question answered, move on.

Nope, I would like a simple yes or no answer.

Do you support leaving Saddam in power in Iraq? Yes or no?

Have you stopped beating your wife, yes or no?

I have never beat my wife.

Now do you support leaving Saddam in power in Iraq? Yes or no?

I have no opinion on Saddam.

Then Quit Bashing America

But I do have an opinion on US empire building and what is driving this war fever. If you don't like my opinion, show me where I'm wrong or ignore it.


What is this empire that you speak of?

Were is it not? Okay, maybe not the PRC, Cuba or NK. Its largely been an absentee landlord imperialism. You do what the US wants or face trade santions all the way up to bombs dropped on your country. At the very least, you get childlike insults. Now, the US is moving to the next phase. Obvioulsy, no one has read a single link I provided which isn't surprising.


Interesting absentee landlord imperialism..interesting. So we are am empire but not really.

But guess what, every country has the ability to lay trade sanctions.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: etech
Hagbard, do you believe that Iraq still has hidden weapons that were banned by the UN in 1991?

I have no idea if they do or do not. Guess we'll find out shortly...hey, I'm still betting on March 22, as I have for over a month. Its about is easly to guess as anything else (ie: its not).

Why do you only have an opinion about America and not Saddam and Iraqi WMD Programs?<<<<<<<Seems Childish and Ignorant to me ??

I've explained my position in my first and second post. The same applies to both Iraq and the US, but it isn't Iraq that's looking for the fight, its the US.

We will just let Saddam grow in power, until he nukes someone someday. That is a much better solution.

Fantasy. Its never been about WMD...just war propaganda. France and Germany (as do the others but won't say so) know this. Few outside the US believe its anything but propaganda.


Then why are there 17 UN resolutions for him to disarm?
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
If it is found out that France and Germany illegally sold Saddam Weapons Hardware and anything else while UN Sanctions were placed on Iraq will you think differently about France and Germany?
 

hagbard

Banned
Nov 30, 2000
2,775
0
0
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: hagbard

I've explained my position in my first and second post. The same applies to both Iraq and the US, but it isn't Iraq that's looking for the fight, its the US.



I understand how it can look this way to someone as blatantly biased as yourself... but Saddam commited the first criminal acts by forcing the UN out of his country and then NEVER (Caps for emphasis) chose to follow the International Laws he signed his name to after Desert Storm..

Factually incorrect.

If Saddam would have complied with the ORIGINAL UN Resolutions then he could once again have the largest CONVENTIONAL Military in the world ...

No.

but instead he chose to cause troubles for the UN Inspectors TIme AND Time AGAIN.... WHY won't he follow International Law?

Ask your country the same question. Is it not against international law to attack another country that hasn't attacked yours?

I know we (the U.S.) helped build him and probably helped him create WMDs...so we know what he had.. Why won'the just come clean and give it up?

Which is something that many here have denied until recently. Again, I don't care if he does or doesn't. Its not grounds for invasion no matter how many UN members the US manages to bully or buy to their position.


 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,743
6,761
126
Hagbard, I know about the doctrine for a new american century. It's why i have grave doubts about our motives. While you get called an idiot, I think those who cannpt consider other facts than what they wish to believe are kind of simple minded themselves.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: hagbard

I've explained my position in my first and second post. The same applies to both Iraq and the US, but it isn't Iraq that's looking for the fight, its the US.



I understand how it can look this way to someone as blatantly biased as yourself... but Saddam commited the first criminal acts by forcing the UN out of his country and then NEVER (Caps for emphasis) chose to follow the International Laws he signed his name to after Desert Storm..

Factually incorrect.

If Saddam would have complied with the ORIGINAL UN Resolutions then he could once again have the largest CONVENTIONAL Military in the world ...

No.

but instead he chose to cause troubles for the UN Inspectors TIme AND Time AGAIN.... WHY won't he follow International Law?

Ask your country the same question. Is it not against international law to attack another country that hasn't attacked yours?

I know we (the U.S.) helped build him and probably helped him create WMDs...so we know what he had.. Why won'the just come clean and give it up?

Which is something that many here have denied until recently. Again, I don't care if he does or doesn't. Its not grounds for invasion no matter how many UN members the US manages to bully or buy to their position.



I guess Murdering Millions of Jewish People wasn't reason to invade no matter what the US thought either.
 

hagbard

Banned
Nov 30, 2000
2,775
0
0
Interesting absentee landlord imperialism..interesting. So we are am empire but not really.

Its new and improved imperialism, evolving just as 18th century Dutch imperialism was not the same as 19th century British imperialism. Here's is yet another link you guys can ignore:

Text

But guess what, every country has the ability to lay trade sanctions.

And enforce it will gunboats and threats against international companies that do business with the "enemy". No. The Bush administration should put you guys on the payroll.



 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: hagbard
Interesting absentee landlord imperialism..interesting. So we are am empire but not really.

Its new and improved imperialism, evolving just as 18th century Dutch imperialism was not the same as 19th century British imperialism. Here's is yet another link you guys can ignore:

Text

But guess what, every country has the ability to lay trade sanctions.

And enforce it will gunboats and threats against international companies that do business with the "enemy". No. The Bush administration should put you guys on the payroll.


The only place we have been using gunboats to enforce trade is on Iraq. And that has been a mulitalateral UN force.
rolleye.gif
 

hagbard

Banned
Nov 30, 2000
2,775
0
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: etech
Hagbard, do you believe that Iraq still has hidden weapons that were banned by the UN in 1991?

I have no idea if they do or do not. Guess we'll find out shortly...hey, I'm still betting on March 22, as I have for over a month. Its about is easly to guess as anything else (ie: its not).

Why do you only have an opinion about America and not Saddam and Iraqi WMD Programs?<<<<<<<Seems Childish and Ignorant to me ??

I've explained my position in my first and second post. The same applies to both Iraq and the US, but it isn't Iraq that's looking for the fight, its the US.

We will just let Saddam grow in power, until he nukes someone someday. That is a much better solution.

Fantasy. Its never been about WMD...just war propaganda. France and Germany (as do the others but won't say so) know this. Few outside the US believe its anything but propaganda.


Then why are there 17 UN resolutions for him to disarm?

US pressure, I said that already. Since when does the US gave a damn about UN resolutions...is Bush a born again UN believer too? Need I once again mention all those resolutions against Israel that go ignored?

 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Hagbard, I know about the doctrine for a new american century. It's why i have grave doubts about our motives. While you get called an idiot, I think those who cannpt consider other facts than what they wish to believe are kind of simple minded themselves.


Would you rather have a new Chinese Century

A new Russian Century

A new North Korean Century


A New Saudia Arabian Century
 

hagbard

Banned
Nov 30, 2000
2,775
0
0
Originally posted by: dahunan
If it is found out that France and Germany illegally sold Saddam Weapons Hardware and anything else while UN Sanctions were placed on Iraq will you think differently about France and Germany?

Would it make me feel differently...what do I think about France and Germany now? You seen to know what I think...tell me.

 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: dahunan
If it is found out that France and Germany illegally sold Saddam Weapons Hardware and anything else while UN Sanctions were placed on Iraq will you think differently about France and Germany?

Would it make me feel differently...what do I think about France and Germany now? You seen to know what I think...tell me.



They are on the Moral High Ground ABOVE the United States?

 

hagbard

Banned
Nov 30, 2000
2,775
0
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Hagbard, I know about the doctrine for a new american century. It's why i have grave doubts about our motives. While you get called an idiot, I think those who cannpt consider other facts than what they wish to believe are kind of simple minded themselves.

Gee...thanks for the strong endorsement there Moonbeam.

 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: etech
Hagbard, do you believe that Iraq still has hidden weapons that were banned by the UN in 1991?

I have no idea if they do or do not. Guess we'll find out shortly...hey, I'm still betting on March 22, as I have for over a month. Its about is easly to guess as anything else (ie: its not).

Why do you only have an opinion about America and not Saddam and Iraqi WMD Programs?<<<<<<<Seems Childish and Ignorant to me ??

I've explained my position in my first and second post. The same applies to both Iraq and the US, but it isn't Iraq that's looking for the fight, its the US.

We will just let Saddam grow in power, until he nukes someone someday. That is a much better solution.

Fantasy. Its never been about WMD...just war propaganda. France and Germany (as do the others but won't say so) know this. Few outside the US believe its anything but propaganda.


Then why are there 17 UN resolutions for him to disarm?

US pressure, I said that already. Since when does the US gave a damn about UN resolutions...is Bush a born again UN believer too? Need I once again mention all those resolutions against Israel that go ignored?


Well if that is true, which i doubt as there are 5 vetos in the security council, then we can at least agree the UN is useless.

I really doubt the 18 IRaq resolution will get thru the security council. I guess we dont have enough gunboats....
 

Mursilis

Diamond Member
Mar 11, 2001
7,756
11
81
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Hagbard, I know about the doctrine for a new american century. It's why i have grave doubts about our motives. While you get called an idiot, I think those who cannpt consider other facts than what they wish to believe are kind of simple minded themselves.

Oh please. The smug arrogance of you people is just sad. You want to know what simple-minded is? Simple-minded is Hagbard's Simplied Foreign Policy of MYOFB. Like that will work. Radical Islamists don't hate Westerners because they meddle in Middle Eastern affairs - Radical Islamists hate Westerners merely because they exist. Read this quote from a statement issued by al-Qaeda explaining why 9/11 happened:

How can a Muslim accept humiliation and inferiority "when he knows that his nation was created to stand at the center of leadership, at the center of hegemony and rule, at the center of ability and sacrifice? ? When he knows that the [divine] rule is that the entire earth must be subject to the religion of Allah ? not to the East, not to the West ? to no ideology and to no path except the path of Allah??"

So how is sticking your head in the sand (Hagbard's prefered position) going to protect anyone against people who offer two choices - be Muslim, or be dead? Closing one's eyes didn't make Hitler go away, and it's certainly not going to make the West-hating Islamic fundamentalists go away, either.
 

hagbard

Banned
Nov 30, 2000
2,775
0
0
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: dahunan
If it is found out that France and Germany illegally sold Saddam Weapons Hardware and anything else while UN Sanctions were placed on Iraq will you think differently about France and Germany?

Would it make me feel differently...what do I think about France and Germany now? You seen to know what I think...tell me.



They are on the Moral High Ground ABOVE the United States?

Is that your view or your view of what you think I believe?

 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: dahunan
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: dahunan
If it is found out that France and Germany illegally sold Saddam Weapons Hardware and anything else while UN Sanctions were placed on Iraq will you think differently about France and Germany?

Would it make me feel differently...what do I think about France and Germany now? You seen to know what I think...tell me.



They are on the Moral High Ground ABOVE the United States?

Is that your view or your view of what you think I believe?



Yes, you seem to HATE the USA and ALL it stands for.

 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,743
6,761
126
Sorry I couldn't do better. I can't read Bush's mind. To be absolutly sure my analysis is the only right one would be as silly as those who are absolutly sure we're wrong.