anti-vaccers usually white, rich, and private schooled

[norseamd]

But not necessarily very educated families overall.

http://arstechnica.com/science/2015...ch-white-but-not-necessarily-highly-educated/

 

[woolfe9998]

But not necessarily very educated families overall.

http://arstechnica.com/science/2015...ch-white-but-not-necessarily-highly-educated/

Not anti-vaccers, anti-vacc Californians, which is likely to be demographically different from anti-vaccers on the whole. Polling indicates similar numbers of anti-vacc on the right and left. My bet is that most of the California anti-vacc are affluent white liberals who are obsessed with "nature" and want everything "pure" and unadulterated by man. Whereas the conservative anti-vacc probably object to the fact that the government requires people to be vaccinated which probably also makes them suspicious about what is in the vaccines. I bet that is a very different demographic, possibly less affluent.

 

[dphantom]

that is our experience here. typical are those well off urban young liberals. private school. The only large outbreaks have happened in the private schools. None in our public.

 

[Harabec]

It is human nature. Those who already have everything think the world was created just like that. In such a world, vaccinations are useless, of course.
If they'd trade lives with a hungry middle-african child for a week, they'll be the first to jump on any vaccination offer.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I am shocked and appalled. I cannot believe this.

Not anti-vaccers, anti-vacc Californians, which is likely to be demographically different from anti-vaccers on the whole. Polling indicates similar numbers of anti-vacc on the right and left. My bet is that most of the California anti-vacc are affluent white liberals who are obsessed with "nature" and want everything "pure" and unadulterated by man. Whereas the conservative anti-vacc probably object to the fact that the government requires people to be vaccinated which probably also makes them suspicious about what is in the vaccines. I bet that is a very different demographic, possibly less affluent.

Please for the love of god - show me ANY evidence backing up your assertion that the anti-vacc nutbags are in anyway a part of the conservative group.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I am shocked and appalled. I cannot believe this.

Please for the love of god - show me ANY evidence backing up your assertion that the anti-vacc nutbags are in anyway a part of the conservative group.

Just about every anti-vaxer I've met in recent years was a Tea Party enthusiast and an Obama-hater. Seriously.

And I really don't understand this, just like I don't understand other aberrations. The entire notion of a public-health imperative was well-established long, long ago.

Before Jonas Salk, the scourge of polio had people flocking to public-school gymnasiums to get free gamma-globulin vaccinations. These anti-vax nutcases didn't even exist. I just remember the sore ass I had for days after getting punched in the gluteus with the needle.

There's something I like to do as an eccentric, oddly dressed retiree during a grocery shopping episode. I get my cart, mumble "Where are the handi-wipes?" Start wiping down the cart, flip down the kiddie seat:

"Uh-uh-uh-uhhhh! Kiddie-feces! [wiping wiping] Must . . . protect . . against the anti-vaxxers and their fee-ee-lthy cheee-ldren . . . with their kiddie feces! Uh-uh-uh-uhhh! The walking dead . . . .the great unwashed!! A-a-a-n-ti--va-a-axxers!! Uh-uh-uh-uhhh!"

 

[flexy]

People say that this anti-vaccer craze comes from "personal belief", religion-based, whatever.

I say it's the same here as with people believing in Chemtrails, the 9/11 conspiracy and similar - actually stemming from an aversion for ANYTHING that is associated with "the government". Vaccinations are mandatory in the US. (Correct me if I am wrong).

The fact that many of those are "private schooled" (read: home schooled, I don't think they mean "private school" as in private schools in the UK) just confirms this.

People who are "government paranoid" if you will, believing in fantasies like Chemtrails, "New World order", "'they' want to take our guns" etc..etc..etc... are likely also people who don't send their children to public school either.

What we have here, whether it's Anti-vaccing, believing in that the president is Kenyan/Muslim and not legitimately elected, Chemtrails etc. is a direct result of the disconnect/gap between politics ("the government) and the common folks who are rejecting the establishment, see it as "working against them".

Which amazingly also would lead to other related topics, such as why Trump is so popular etc.

 

[flexy]

show me ANY evidence backing up your assertion that the anti-vacc nutbags are in anyway a part of the conservative group.

Show me ANY evidence that they are "mostly liberals".. While I agree with the guy posting that there is probably a demographic of dumb liberals who want "everything pure and natural" I'd actually not be surprised when a large percentage (most of them even) would be die-hard conservatives of the Tea-party sort.

 

[woolfe9998]

I am shocked and appalled. I cannot believe this.

Please for the love of god - show me ANY evidence backing up your assertion that the anti-vacc nutbags are in anyway a part of the conservative group.

I continue to be amused that most people, including some liberals, think anti-vacc is mainly a liberal thing. Perhaps you're confusing the issue with anti-GMO foods, which IS mostly a liberal thing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...likely-to-believe-that-vaccines-cause-autism/

Here's the key passage, which confirms my hunch about the appeal of anti-vacc to conservatives:

Ideology is not the only factor associated with beliefs about vaccines. Trust in government also plays a key role. The less people trusted the government, the more likely they were to believe in a link between vaccinations and autism.

There have been multiple surveys. This one actually shows conservatives considerably more inclined toward it. The others I saw showed very little difference. Further googling will reveal those as well if you're really want to see more.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Show me ANY evidence that they are "mostly liberals".. While I agree with the guy posting that there is probably a demographic of dumb liberals who want "everything pure and natural" I'd actually not be surprised when a large percentage (most of them even) would be die-hard conservatives of the Tea-party sort.

I continue to be amused that most people, including some liberals, think anti-vacc is mainly a liberal thing. Perhaps you're confusing the issue with anti-GMO foods, which IS mostly a liberal thing.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blog...likely-to-believe-that-vaccines-cause-autism/

Here s the key passage, which confirms my hunch about the appeal of anti-vacc to conservatives



There have been multiple surveys. This one actually shows conservatives considerably more inclined toward it. The others I saw showed very little difference. Further googling will reveal those as well if you're really want to see more.

How about a LIBERAL WEBSITE posting that liberals are responsible? Is that good enough proof for you?
http://www.forwardprogressives.com/...-the-lefts-intellectual-problem-with-science/

How about Jon Stewart? As much as I watched him when he was the host of Daily Show, he is commonly known for leaning to the left. I still love Daily Show just because it's one of the few shows that isn't afraid to talk politics - Regardless of how progressive they lean.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/jon-stewart-mocks-anti-vaccine-770054

 

[woolfe9998]

How about a LIBERAL WEBSITE posting that liberals are responsible? Is that good enough proof for you?
http://www.forwardprogressives.com/...-the-lefts-intellectual-problem-with-science/

How about Jon Stewart? As much as I watched him when he was the host of Daily Show, he is commonly known for leaning to the left. I still love Daily Show just because it's one of the few shows that isn't afraid to talk politics - Regardless of how progressive they lean.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/jon-stewart-mocks-anti-vaccine-770054

There is survey data, a lot of it, which says that conservatives are as or more likely to be anti-vacc than liberals. This is a fact. A blog which doesn't even address that issue is irrelevant. The blog is just calling out those liberals who are anti-vacc for being hypocritical when they complain that conservatives are anti-science. The blogger's point is correct. However, he isn't addressing the polling which shows at least comparable anti-vacc on the right because his blog is not concerned with addressing that issue. Nice try though.

Here's another:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...ence_views_anti_vaxxers_are_a_bipartisan.html

After criticizing liberals for being anti-science on a number of issues, the author cites the Pew poll on vacc:

With that in mind, vaccine skepticism is mostly ecumenical. The Pew Research Center finds modest differences in views about vaccination—34 percent of Republicans, 33 percent of independents, and 22 percent of Democrats believe parents should have final say on vaccination—while we know from anecdotes that vaccine rejection is present in conservative religious communities (like the Amish in Ohio) as well as in crunchy college-town communes like Boulder, Colorado. In fact, the available data shows stability in anti-vaccination views across ideology—neither side is substantially more likely than the other to hold anti-vaccine beliefs.

Scientific polling is the only way to know what groups of people believe. There are lots more polls but I'm done finding them for you.

 

[norseamd]

34 percent of Republicans, 33 percent of independents, and 22 percent of Democrats believe parents should have final say on vaccination

This is totally different than major opposition to vaccinations. Not addressing anything else in the rest of the comment.

 

[woolfe9998]

This is totally different than major opposition to vaccinations. Not addressing anything else in the rest of the comment.

You'll have to go read up on the numerous surveys. The questions are framed a little differently, but the general result is similar in all I've seen. You can start with my first link in the thread, which specifically explores the unscientific view that vaccination causes autism.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I am shocked and appalled. I cannot believe this.

Please for the love of god - show me ANY evidence backing up your assertion that the anti-vacc nutbags are in anyway a part of the conservative group.

From my admittedly limited interactions I'd put the anti vacc folks at 2/3 rich hippies 1/3 Tea Party black helicopters flying around my house people.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

From my admittedly limited interactions I'd put the anti vacc folks at 2/3 rich hippies 1/3 Tea Party black helicopters flying around my house people.

And the anti-GMO crowd? I'm thinking about 99% are rich hippies. They're quite adept at contriving conspiracies as well!

Eugenics Alert: The Use Of GMO Food To Deliberately Sterilise Humans
http://www.activistpost.com/2010/12/eugenics-alert-use-of-gmo-food-to.html

 

[Jaskalas]

And the anti-GMO crowd? I'm thinking about 99% are rich hippies. They're quite adept at contriving conspiracies as well!

Eugenics Alert: The Use Of GMO Food To Deliberately Sterilise Humans
http://www.activistpost.com/2010/12/eugenics-alert-use-of-gmo-food-to.html

Moonbeam's head will explode when hearing of these large progressive fear centers.
That or either existence will be denied.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

And the anti-GMO crowd? I'm thinking about 99% are rich hippies. They're quite adept at contriving conspiracies as well!

Eugenics Alert: The Use Of GMO Food To Deliberately Sterilise Humans
http://www.activistpost.com/2010/12/eugenics-alert-use-of-gmo-food-to.html

Vast majority however organic foods are more popular now since there are more choices than Whole Foods and their cost isn't that bad. I'd say there are a surprising amount of GMO haters in the general population now but yes the majority are what you describe.

 

[BoberFett]

Moonbeam's head will explode when hearing of these large progressive fear centers.
That or either existence will be denied.

He'll just say that they're actually conservative, not liberal.

 

[Bart*Simpson]

In all the invective against people who don't trust multi-billion dollar pharmaceutical companies that push highly profitable vaccines I rarely if ever see any acknowledgment of some of the facts about vaccines:

1. People who took the H1N1 vaccine were 100% more likely to contract the virus than those who didn't take the vaccine. The H1N1 vaccine also had some very serious side effects.

http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/features/is-the-h1n1-swine-flu-vaccine-safe

2. People who routinely take vaccines ever year are shown to have REDUCED immunity to disease.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/flu-vaccine-paradox-adds-to-public-health-debate-1.2912790

3. If vaccines actually protect those people who take them then why are we told that people who don't take a vaccine are a threat to people who do? No, I reject arguments about 'herd immunity' because vaccines are for individuals.

An example of an effective vaccine was the Smallpox vaccine. Vaccinated people were inarguably safe from being infected with the lethal disease and that made the case for global vaccination against the disease.

4. Why do we need to be vaccinated against diseases that don't exist in our population? The measles and mumps outbreak that famously started at Disneyland was traced to Central American immigrants. If we'd had better border controls in place to protect the health of US citizens we wouldn't need to push the MMR vaccine (which is now banned in both France and Japan due to the side effects of the vaccine).

But if we eradicate the disease then why immunize against it? We don't immunize against smallpox anymore, either.

Just some questions to ponder here.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

......and so it begins....

 

[woolfe9998]

He'll just say that they're actually conservative, not liberal.

Yes, if he's smart, that is exactly what he'll say. What kind of liberal website contains, for example, articles claiming Sandy Hook was a hoax to promote gun control? From DSF's website:

http://www.activistpost.com/2015/12/33-unanswered-questions-on-sandy-hooks-3rd-anniversary.html

You can also find articles claiming global warming is a hoax:

http://www.activistpost.com/2015/11/global-warming-hoax-spiraling-into-radical-tyrannical-beast.html

And a reading list containing libertarian books.

So, to sum things up, the same website containing an article that is paranoid about GMO foods is also denying Sandy Hook and global warming, and promoting libertarian literature.

Not only that, but the article linked by DSF on its own contains noticeable anti-government paranoia, and links to inforwars and prisonplanet, two websites operated by libertarian conspiracy theorist Alex Jones. Don't you guys even read the articles you link?

Thanks DSF and Bober for today's entertainment. It's called an "own goal."

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Yes, if he's smart, that is exactly what he'll say. What kind of liberal website contains, for example, articles claiming Sandy Hook was a hoax to promote gun control? From DSF's website:

http://www.activistpost.com/2015/12/33-unanswered-questions-on-sandy-hooks-3rd-anniversary.html

You can also find articles claiming global warming is a hoax:

http://www.activistpost.com/2015/11/global-warming-hoax-spiraling-into-radical-tyrannical-beast.html

And a reading list containing libertarian books.

So, to sum things up, the same website containing an article that is paranoid about GMO foods is also denying Sandy Hook and global warming, and promoting libertarian literature.

Not only that, but the article linked by DSF on its own contains noticeable anti-government paranoia, and links to inforwars and prisonplanet, two websites operated by libertarian conspiracy theorist Alex Jones. Don't you guys even read the articles you link?

Thanks DSF and Bober for today's entertainment. It's called an "own goal."

Last time I checked is was Democrats broadly pushing for GMO labeling. Or am I mistaken?

 

[woolfe9998]

Last time I checked is was Democrats broadly pushing for GMO labeling. Or am I mistaken?

Indeed. If you look at my post #9 I said as much before you entered the thread. The difference being that I am basing this on scientific polling, not trying to use a libertarian conspiracy site to prove something about what liberals believe. And this difference isn't only as to the ideology of the source. It's also that your libertarian source says GMO foods are being used to sterilize the undesirable. That level of paranoia is beyond thinking GMO foods are harmful to our health, which is itself unscientific. Liberals who believe this deserve severe criticism, but don't deserve to be conflated with right wing cranks who believe even stupider things.

BTW, 92% of ALL Americans want labeling for GMO foods. I am apparently in a fringe minority who believes we shouldn't require labeling for things not proven harmful to our health. What a crank I am.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=97567

 

[BoberFett]

Liberals who believe this deserve severe criticism, but don't deserve to be conflated with right wing cranks who believe even stupider things.

You mean like all those conservatives inhabiting college campuses across the first world who believe that feelings are more important than facts? Oh wait...

I'm not sure what you think you got over on me there you pathetic douchebag, I was merely predicting what Moonbeam's response would be.

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Indeed. If you look at my post #9 I said as much before you entered the thread. The difference being that I am basing this on scientific polling, not trying to use a libertarian conspiracy site to prove something about what liberals believe. And this difference isn't only as to the ideology of the source. It's also that your libertarian source says GMO foods are being used to sterilize the undesirable. That level of paranoia is beyond thinking GMO foods are harmful to our health, which is itself unscientific. Liberals who believe this deserve severe criticism, but don't deserve to be conflated with right wing cranks who believe even stupider things.

BTW, 92% of ALL Americans want labeling for GMO foods. I am apparently in a fringe minority who believes we shouldn't require labeling for things not proven harmful to our health. What a crank I am.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=97567

I plead guilty for not researching the site. But my point stands...liberals are the ones pushing for GMO labeling despite it being scientifically proven to have zero affect on human beings.