Anti-lock brakes

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: TheLonelyPhoenix
Its exactly like the study says. A lot of people with ABS still pump their brake pedal (like they learned when they took Driver's Ed 20 years before ABS systems), which causes irregular braking and is actually worse than a non-ABS system. They also forget that they're supposed to be steering while braking, which is actually far more difficult than it sounds when you're in a panic stop. Think about it... a car blows through a stop sign and you've got 2 seconds before you slam into it as you're going 50 miles an hour, with other cars on the road and various obstruction to the sides of it. How ready would you be on your morning commute?

Sounds a lot like yesterday. Car decides that a Civic's length is enough space to cut in front of me and then slam on the brakes to turn left.

Yay for checking your mirrors and knowing there was no one else behind me, so I could pump brakes + swerve right. ABS woulda made it easier, but I avoided the accident without 'em. What did it was good driver habits of knowing the surroundings.

- M4H

 

[J Heartless Slick]

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
if there's any disadvantages it's personal preference. you decide if there's disadvantages, you either like it or you don't.

My abs helped me from having my insurance company buy a BMW 760. I was going at 70 mph in the right lane and the BMW pulled out in front of me by merging onto a wet highway doing 30 mph. I hit my brakes hard and my car stopped in time safely in a straight line.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: J Heartless Slick

Originally posted by: Pepsi90919
if there's any disadvantages it's personal preference. you decide if there's disadvantages, you either like it or you don't.

My abs helped me from having my insurance company buy a BMW 760. I was going at 70 mph in the right lane and the BMW pulled out in front of me by merging onto a wet highway doing 30 mph. I hit my brakes hard and my car stopped in time safely in a straight line.

BMW 760 = charged with failure to yield

- M4H

 

[radioouman]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
it's probably because people don't educate themselves about their cars.

with abs, you should go to an empty parking lot on a wet or snowy day and do a lot of slamming on the brakes and seeing how the car responds. that's what i do whenever i get a new car and have an opportunity to do so.

i don't understand people that drive cars without having any idea of the functionality or limits of their vehicles.

THat's exactly the way I feel. I got into an argument about this with a girl a couple years ago. She never understood why I would want to do this.

 

[EMPshockwave82]

Originally posted by: redly
you'll never ever be able to "hate pump" the brakes as fast as ABS

anyone who has ever felt abs turn on knows there's no way in poop they could pump that fast

 

[T2T III]

Originally posted by: EMPshockwave82

Originally posted by: redly
you'll never ever be able to "hate pump" the brakes as fast as ABS

anyone who has ever felt abs turn on knows there's no way in poop they could pump that fast

I'll completely agree with that statement.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: Tiles2Tech

Originally posted by: EMPshockwave82

Originally posted by: redly
you'll never ever be able to "hate pump" the brakes as fast as ABS

anyone who has ever felt abs turn on knows there's no way in poop they could pump that fast

I'll completely agree with that statement.

The problem is, as mentioned above, most people's first time "feeling ABS" is on an ice patch about two feet from someone's bumper. Which causes panic, release of brake pedal, and *SLAM*. "OMG, ABS didn't help me!"

Go out to a snow-covered or icy parking lot (with widely spaced poles!) and find out the limits of your vehicle. It's also loads of fun.

- M4H

 

[StageLeft]

1. Lock all wheels
2. Turn car 15-20 degrees to one side
3. Slide to near halt
4. Use remaining momentum to straighten car
5. Admire tire smoke in rear mirror

That sounds like a good way to run off the road and/or ram the car in front of you. This isn't GT3...I don't know how your real driving skills are but even experienced drivers have a tendency to hammer the brake on when the sh*t's about to hit the fan, and in such circumstances ABS is what you want. It's a superior braking system, which is why almost all non-cheap cars have it. Cars that don't have it are either too cheap to incorporate it, or represent a high level of performance, like an exotic.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: Tiles2Tech

Originally posted by: EMPshockwave82

Originally posted by: redly
you'll never ever be able to "hate pump" the brakes as fast as ABS

anyone who has ever felt abs turn on knows there's no way in poop they could pump that fast

I'll completely agree with that statement.

The problem is, as mentioned above, most people's first time "feeling ABS" is on an ice patch about two feet from someone's bumper. Which causes panic, release of brake pedal, and *SLAM*. "OMG, ABS didn't help me!"

Go out to a snow-covered or icy parking lot (with widely spaced poles!) and find out the limits of your vehicle. It's also loads of fun.

- M4H

Or any gravel covered area.

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
with abs, you should go to an empty parking lot on a wet or snowy day and do a lot of slamming on the brakes and seeing how the car responds.

Yup... I say this in every "snow" thread ... people really need to "practice"... with or without ABS.

On a different note, can someone explain how rear-only ABS is better than no ABS at all ? My '95 Rodeo comes with rear-only and I can't figure out why it's beneficial... I'd lose steering just the same, no ?

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: Tiles2Tech

Originally posted by: EMPshockwave82

Originally posted by: redly
you'll never ever be able to "hate pump" the brakes as fast as ABS

anyone who has ever felt abs turn on knows there's no way in poop they could pump that fast

I'll completely agree with that statement.

The problem is, as mentioned above, most people's first time "feeling ABS" is on an ice patch about two feet from someone's bumper. Which causes panic, release of brake pedal, and *SLAM*. "OMG, ABS didn't help me!"

Go out to a snow-covered or icy parking lot (with widely spaced poles!) and find out the limits of your vehicle. It's also loads of fun.

- M4H

Or any gravel covered area.

True, but I prefer snow.

1) It's winter.
2) Snow has the benefit of being a more common surface to worry about. You don't see "Gravel Tires" do ya?
3) A lack of that nasty habit of chewing up your paint and undercarriage.
4) I'm Canadian.

- M4H

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: rh71

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
with abs, you should go to an empty parking lot on a wet or snowy day and do a lot of slamming on the brakes and seeing how the car responds.

Yup... I say this in every "snow" thread ... people really need to "practice"... with or without ABS.

On a different note, can someone explain how rear-only ABS is better than no ABS at all ? My '95 Rodeo comes with rear-only and I can't figure out why it's beneficial... I'd lose steering just the same, no ?

Possibly trying to prevent oversteer? Either way, sounds like a moronic idea to me.

- M4H

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: Tiles2Tech

Originally posted by: EMPshockwave82

Originally posted by: redly
you'll never ever be able to "hate pump" the brakes as fast as ABS

anyone who has ever felt abs turn on knows there's no way in poop they could pump that fast

I'll completely agree with that statement.

The problem is, as mentioned above, most people's first time "feeling ABS" is on an ice patch about two feet from someone's bumper. Which causes panic, release of brake pedal, and *SLAM*. "OMG, ABS didn't help me!"

Go out to a snow-covered or icy parking lot (with widely spaced poles!) and find out the limits of your vehicle. It's also loads of fun.

- M4H

Or any gravel covered area.

True, but I prefer snow.

1) It's winter.
2) Snow has the benefit of being a more common surface to worry about. You don't see "Gravel Tires" do ya?
3) A lack of that nasty habit of chewing up your paint and undercarriage.
4) I'm Canadian.

- M4H

Don't give me any more reasons to hate you

 

[Gibson486]

I went from ABS to non ABS and i really miss ABS. When i got into my fender bender, it locked and I could not turn enough to miss the guy infront of me. When your brakes lock, it's time to pray to have ABS.

 

[MercenaryForHire]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
Don't give me any more reasons to hate you

Our women are hotter, our strip clubs are better, our beer tastes good, and we can drive in the snow without freaking out.



- M4H

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
Don't give me any more reasons to hate you

Our women are hotter, our strip clubs are better, our beer tastes good, and we can drive in the snow without freaking out.



- M4H

BUT YOU ARE CANADIAN!!!

 

[Pliablemoose]

I really dislike ABS.

In spirited driving, if I touch my brakes when a wheel loses contact with the ground it kicks in & pisses me off.

I've never been able to "Stomp & Steer" well.

It's unnerving to drivers when it kicks in unless you've practiced using it. And drivers experiencing it for the first time are usually in an emergency situation.

I grew up driving on gravel & on ice & snow without ABS, you learn the fine points of braking in those environments...

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

You can steer well with ABS locked as long as you are calm enough to do it. If you panic, you are screwed.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
You can steer well with ABS locked as long as you are calm enough to do it. If you panic, you are screwed.

Agreed, you're supposed to "stomp & steer" but unless you practice with it ABS is nearly useless.

I'd like to know if the drivers of ABS equipped autos in accidents did anything but "stomp"

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
You can steer well with ABS locked as long as you are calm enough to do it. If you panic, you are screwed.

Agreed, you're supposed to "stomp & steer" but unless you practice with it ABS is nearly useless.

I'd like to know if the drivers of ABS equipped autos in accidents did anything but "stomp"

Yeah, but since I was 2 feet behind the car anyway, it didn't do much

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
You can steer well with ABS locked as long as you are calm enough to do it. If you panic, you are screwed.

Agreed, you're supposed to "stomp & steer" but unless you practice with it ABS is nearly useless.

I'd like to know if the drivers of ABS equipped autos in accidents did anything but "stomp"

Probably just stomped, but the same would be true of 99% of non-abs drivers. Prior to a collision you almost always see, if they lack abs, a nice straight smooth line of rubber. Unless constantly practiced, or orchestrated by an unusually level headed individual, the intricacies of threshold braking will be ignored when you're about to butt-screw another car.

 

[psiu]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: TheLonelyPhoenix
Its exactly like the study says. A lot of people with ABS still pump their brake pedal (like they learned when they took Driver's Ed 20 years before ABS systems), which causes irregular braking and is actually worse than a non-ABS system. They also forget that they're supposed to be steering while braking, which is actually far more difficult than it sounds when you're in a panic stop. Think about it... a car blows through a stop sign and you've got 2 seconds before you slam into it as you're going 50 miles an hour, with other cars on the road and various obstruction to the sides of it. How ready would you be on your morning commute?

Sounds a lot like yesterday. Car decides that a Civic's length is enough space to cut in front of me and then slam on the brakes to turn left.

Yay for checking your mirrors and knowing there was no one else behind me, so I could pump brakes + swerve right. ABS woulda made it easier, but I avoided the accident without 'em. What did it was good driver habits of knowing the surroundings.

- M4H

Ding ding ding....


Situational awareness is the biggest advantage you can possibly have. Does the lady on her cellphone in the Suburban look like she know you're there? Is that old person a light ahead of you going to go 15 under the limit. Is the prick in the G35 going to cut you off? Is the road covered in ice, meaning you should perhaps drive differently? Are the idiots surrounding you ignoring the ice?

I pretty much keep my focus on the road and surroundings while driving, and choose the moments to change the radio, or drink something (stop light, cruising between lights in town/not in intersections or while merging on the highway).

 

[SaturnX]

Originally posted by: MercenaryForHire

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
Don't give me any more reasons to hate you

Our women are hotter, our strip clubs are better, our beer tastes good, and we can drive in the snow without freaking out.



- M4H

I couldn't agree more! I love being Canadian. It's all about knowing how to handle RWD extremely well in our Canadian winters

--Mark

 

[Kelemvor]

Antilock Brakes are only bad if you don't know how to use them. You jsut push your foot down and hold it there. If you pump and such you actually make things worse than not having the ABS at all.

 

[gsellis]

The only negative situation, on the road, I know of with ABS is wet leaves. ABS does not know that skipping on wet leaves is better than not stopping at all.

The exception is on snow/ice/gravel/mud, where you are in a dynamic friction state anyway and you want to present as much tire area as possible in the direction of travel. That's why rally drivers are always swinging the rear end out.

Sorry jagec, but this is not the reason. The fast guy is the guy who exits the turn with the most speed. By using a counter steer and hand brake to create a slide, the car now can add power and acceleration into the direction of desired travel. When the late apex is reached, the car is already approaching full power in a straight line. The acceleration also counters the tendency to understeer in the extreme because the surface is less than ideal. On a normal surface, you are relying on friction alone to change direction.

Rally - Real cars, real roads, real fast.