Anti-Israel bias of the UN: Politics, Economics, or something else?

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Aegeon

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2004
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Originally posted by: miketheidiot
thats where most of them came from, is it not? How many people who relocated to israel could realistically trace their lineage to people living in the middle east?
A rather substancial porportion actually. Basically Sephardic Jews are Jews who had in many cases lived in Middle Eastern locations for hundreds of years if not much longer (in some areas thousands of years) before many of them were blatantly expelled from the Middle Eastern countries they were living in and fled to Israel. Many of these Jews also had their land and property blatantly seized by the Middle Eastern governments they were fleeing from in the process. Curiously enough the UN pays virtually no attention to this group or redressing their rights.

You also have some Jews whose ancesters have been continually living in the area which is now Israel for many hundreds of years.
 

db

Lifer
Dec 6, 1999
10,575
292
126

OP your supposed "facts" are straight from AIPAC, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, which describes itself as "America's Pro-Israel Lobby". AIPAC normally flies under the radar and most Americans don't even know it exists, and yet, it is one of the most powerful political lobbies in America. It exists solely to promote Israel's interests. And so does your post here.

 

Aisengard

Golden Member
Feb 25, 2005
1,558
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76
Originally posted by: db

OP your supposed "facts" are straight from AIPAC, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, which describes itself as "America's Pro-Israel Lobby". AIPAC normally flies under the radar and most Americans don't even know it exists, and yet, it is one of the most powerful political lobbies in America. It exists solely to promote Israel's interests. And so does your post here.


Well, someone has to promote Israel's well-being. God knows the rest of the world doesn't.
 

PandaBear

Golden Member
Aug 23, 2000
1,375
1
81
I have no problem with the Jewish people or the Jewish state Israel, most of them were born there so they deserve to stay there. What I have problem with is the way the government ride the Arab villages and turn those area into "settlement" and subsidize poor Jews to move there to occupy those land. As a result, Arabs are either forced out of the country or live in refugee camps.

I hate their government and politics, not the people. This government is the only industrialized and developed one that is still suppressing and occupying a land grabbed by war. No other nation can occupy a land by war nowadays, but Israel is still doing that.

At least their recent pull out is a good start.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
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Originally posted by: Aegeon
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
thats where most of them came from, is it not? How many people who relocated to israel could realistically trace their lineage to people living in the middle east?
A rather substancial porportion actually. Basically Sephardic Jews are Jews who had in many cases lived in Middle Eastern locations for hundreds of years if not much longer (in some areas thousands of years) before many of them were blatantly expelled from the Middle Eastern countries they were living in and fled to Israel. Many of these Jews also had their land and property blatantly seized by the Middle Eastern governments they were fleeing from in the process. Curiously enough the UN pays virtually no attention to this group or redressing their rights.

You also have some Jews whose ancesters have been continually living in the area which is now Israel for many hundreds of years.
I can't rightly agree with your statement that Arabic countries blatantly expelled their Jewish populations as there are still a few Jewish people in many of those nations today. Anti-Zionist violence did drive many Jewish people to want to leave their countries though, as did a few pro-Zionist extremists, but the leadership some of those states actually worked to restrain their Jewish pollution from making aliyah as those Arab rulers did not want their citizens strengthening Israel. But yeah, Sephardic Jews have been in and around the land for ages and were treated as second-class citizens by the Arab majority; however it was the Ashkenazi moving in and buying up the land to form Israel that inflamed the current conflict.

As for the UN, some of it's members are clearly biased against Israel, but I think it is kept in check by the majorty enough to were the "no bias" option was the only option I can consider even close to reasonable in this poll.
 

Aegeon

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2004
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Originally posted by: TheSnowman
I can't rightly agree with your statement that Arabic countries blatantly expelled their Jewish populations as there are still a few Jewish people in many of those nations today. Anti-Zionist violence did drive many Jewish people to want to leave their countries though, as did a few pro-Zionist extremists, but the leadership some of those states actually worked to restrain their Jewish pollution from making aliyah as those Arab rulers did not want their citizens strengthening Israel.
You clearly have not done your research sufficiently. The case of Nasser in Egypt is particularly extreme.

A number of persons living in the United States, thoroughly familiar with the economic structure of Egypt, examined the published lists of 486 persons and firms whose properties were seized under Military Proclamation No.4. They attested that at least 95 per cent of them were Jews. It is noteworthy that these directives issued under Military Proclamation No.4 did not refer to properties owned by British and French subjects which were sequestered under Military Proclamation No.5 - also affecting a number of Jews - but exclusively refer to assets of Egyptian citizens, stateless Jews, and Jews of nationalities other than British and French. All in all, it is estimated that between November 1956 and March 1957 assets of at least 500 Jewish-owned firms were sequestered and their bank accounts frozen; 800 more enterprises under Jewish proprietorship were placed on an economic blacklist and their assets frozen.(11)

The persons and firms affected by this measure represented the bulk of the economic substance of Egyptian Jewry, the largest and most important enterprises, and the main sustenance, through voluntary contributions, of the Jewish religious, educational, social and welfare institutions in Egypt. The resulting paralysis of these institutions substantially aggravated the uprooting effect of the government's anti-Jewish policies and greatly intensified the pressure for Jews to leave the country.

In addition to depriving owners of their properties and income, the sequestration measures indirectly affected the livelihood of a much broader circle of Jews, those employed by firms placed under custodianship. It was reliably reported that all sequestered firms received instructions to discharge all employees of the Jewish faith and acted accordingly. Nor was the elimination of Jews from Egyptian economic life confined to sequestered firms and assets. There were other measures, mostly unofficial, which prevented a large, additional group of Jews from earning a living. For example, most Jews had already lost their positions in public companies and many private firms which were not subject to sequestration. At the same time, many Jews in independent private enterprises were prevented from doing business by the denial of trade permits, export and import licenses, foreign currency allocations, and other administrative facilities essential to the continuation of business. As a result, Jews were either forcibly excluded or voluntarily withdrawing from business. Likewise, a steadily growing number of Jewish physicians, lawyers and engineers were, by various means, prevented from practising their professions.(12)...

Egypt's policy of getting rid of its Jewish population was implemented through both expulsion and 'voluntary' emigration. But the two methods were not entirely distinct. It is estimated that as early as the end of November 1956 at least 500 Egyptian and stateless Jews had been expelled from Egypt, not including a considerable number of Jewish citizens of Britain and France. Most of the expellees were heads of families. They were ordered to leave the country within two to seven days. Whereas, in most cases, the individual served with a deportation order was responsible for supporting his family, all members of the family had to leave the country. Thus, this measure indirectly forced out of Egypt several times the number of those who received expulsion orders. However, official deportation orders were by no means the most effective instruments for thorough forced emigration. In fact, around the end of November 1956, direct, individual expulsion orders ceased, only to be replaced by the more subtle, potent techniques of intimidation and psychological warfare against the Jewish population as a whole. Under these pressures and the simultaneous economic harassment of Jews, a much larger and steadily growing emigration movement began. Jews 'voluntarily' obliged themselves, in formal declarations to the authorities, to leave the country and, in the case of Egyptian nationals, to relinquish their citizenship.(13)

Both the formal expulsion orders and the 'voluntary' pledges to expatriate oneself struck Jews of every status - citizens, stateless persons, and foreign subjects alike. All laissez-passer documents issued to them expressly stated that the person leaving Egypt would not be permitted to return, and that they voluntarily renounced all claims against Egypt.(14) More than 20,200 Jews emigrated between 22 November 1956 and 30 June 1957. In all, between 23,000 and 25,000 out of the 45,000 Jews were estimated to have left Egypt.(15) These included more than 6,000 (until June 1957) who left on ships chartered by the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) whose headquarters were in Geneva, with funds provided by the United Jewish Appeal.(16) The ICRC, as we shall see, rendered invaluable service in evacuating Jews unable to pay for their passage as well as in assisting needy Jews still in Egypt...

We have already seen that in November 1956 the regime modified its citizenship and nationality laws in order to keep Jews - and other minorities - from becoming Egyptian citizens. Then came the 1958 nationality law which included similar provisions and, while not specifically excluding non-Muslims from citizenship, was even more clearly of an ethnic-religious and political nature. It showed that the Nasser regime desired an Arab-Muslim country. Thus, Zakariyya Muhieddin, the Minister of the Interior, was permitted - by law - to accord 'Arab nationality' to aliens who have 'rendered eminent service to the State, to Arab nationalism or to the Arab fatherland', as well as to certain categories of people 'whose religion is Islam'.(30) The 1958 law emerged at the time when Egypt and Syria had combined under the name of the United Arab Republic (UAR), and was clearly a measure to promote Arab unity.

As for the Jews, the new law made it rather easy for Egypt to deprive any Egyptian Jew of citizenship at will. Whereas Article 18 of the November 1956 Law provided that 'Egyptian nationality may be declared forfeit by order of the Ministry of the Interior in the case of persons classified as Zionists', the new law was explicitly anti-Jewish. The new law was issued as a decree of the Minister of the Interior published in the Journal Officiel of 15 April 1958. Under the heading 'Prohibition of Access', it stipulated:

(Article - 8) Jews who possess ordinary or special residence as well as Jews deprived of Egyptian nationality will be inscribed, in case they depart from the country for good, on the list of persons to whom access to the national territory is denied. (Emphasis added - ML)...

In applying this measure, Egypt did not permit the return of British and French Jews who wanted to come back to look after their assets or for other reasons, although treaties had been signed with both Britain and France which ensure the fight of expellees to return. In fact, in August 1958, a Franco-Egyptian agreement was concluded in Zurich, providing for desequestration of, or reimbursement for, properties and businesses of French citizens expelled from Egypt. A similar agreement was signed in February 1959 with Britain. We also know of an Egyptian-Italian agreement regarding assets of Italian citizens.(31) Stateless Jews who left or were expelled were in a worse situation, since no government could or would present their case or negotiate on their behalf. They left behind assets estimated at $28 million.(32) Many Egyptian and stateless Jews who remained in Egypt, as we have seen, had their properties returned to them in 1957. Yet those who left were deprived of their assets.(33)

THE JUNE 1967 WAR AND ITS IMMEDIATE AFTERMATH: THE POSITION OF THE JEWS IN EGYPT 1967-70

Egypt's defeat in 1967 created serious problems for the remaining 2,500 Egyptian Jews. Two or three days after the start of the war, the police rounded up the great majority of Jewish males. Rumours circulated that Chief Rabbi Hayyim Douek and Albert Romano were under arrest and that Rabbi Jacques Nefussi of Alexandria had been imprisoned.(91) In all, at least 425 Jewish males were arrested. Within a week, 75 Jews of foreign nationality were taken from prison, packed into army trucks and driven directly from Cairo to Alexandria where they boarded ships together with non-Jewish foreigners who were leaving Egypt or being expelled.(92) Until 19 September 1968, Jews who had not been imprisoned were permitted to leave the country once they had renounced Egyptian citizenship and pledged never to return. They were obliged to leave all their assets behind. By the end of 1968, only 1,000 Jews remained.
http://www.hsje.org/egyptian_jewry_under_the_nasser_.htm

In other words, you had Jews stripped of their Egyptian citizenship, and then forcibly expelled with their property seized.

While most other Arab countries were less blatant, many governments took active measures to get rid of the Jews in their countries, especially starting in the 1950s.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
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I'm sorry, I didn't mean to ignore the atrocities committed against those in Egypt or elsewhere. Rather, I simply mistook your previous comments to imply that the Jewish populations were ejected from certian Arab nations en masse as I have seen others suggest elsewere, and hence I was attempting to clarify the complexity of the situation.
 

Aegeon

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2004
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Originally posted by: TheSnowman
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to ignore the atrocities committed against those in Egypt or elsewhere. Rather, I simply mistook your previous comments to imply that the Jewish populations were ejected from certian Arab nations en masse as I have seen others suggest elsewere, and hence I was attempting to clarify the complexity of the situation.
If you read through the link in sufficient detail, you'll note that a rather large portion of the Jewish population was effectively forcibly expelled either through blatant deportations, or arbitrarily arresting Jews and only agreeing to release them on the condition they leave the country and promise never to return. The total numbers outright forced out in this manner was a substancial portion of the former Egpytian Jewish population, (especially when you consider that generally the family ended up joining him when the primary breadwinner of a family was expelled) although these events may have occured over 11 years rather than all at once.
 

smack Down

Diamond Member
Sep 10, 2005
4,507
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Originally posted by: db

OP your supposed "facts" are straight from AIPAC, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, which describes itself as "America's Pro-Israel Lobby". AIPAC normally flies under the radar and most Americans don't even know it exists, and yet, it is one of the most powerful political lobbies in America. It exists solely to promote Israel's interests. And so does your post here.

Don't forget spying.

About the UN. It isn't supposed to be neutral so quiteyour btching
 

cumhail

Senior member
Apr 1, 2003
682
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0
Originally posted by: smack Down
Originally posted by: db

OP your supposed "facts" are straight from AIPAC, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, which describes itself as "America's Pro-Israel Lobby". AIPAC normally flies under the radar and most Americans don't even know it exists, and yet, it is one of the most powerful political lobbies in America. It exists solely to promote Israel's interests. And so does your post here.

Don't forget spying.

About the UN. It isn't supposed to be neutral so quiteyour btching

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIPAC_espionage_scandal

 

morkinva

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 1999
3,656
0
71
Originally posted by: db

OP your supposed "facts" are straight from AIPAC, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, which describes itself as "America's Pro-Israel Lobby". AIPAC normally flies under the radar and most Americans don't even know it exists, and yet, it is one of the most powerful political lobbies in America. It exists solely to promote Israel's interests. And so does your post here.

Quite right.
 

Aegeon

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2004
1,809
125
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By the way, numberswise in the period after 1948 around 600,000 Sephardic Jews left "Arab" countries for Israel.

Of the nearly 900,000 Jewish refugees, approximately 600,000 were absorbed by Israel; the remainder went to Europe and the Americas. Today, almost half of Israel's Jewish citizens are the original refugees and their descendants, mostly Sephardi, Mizrahi, and Temani Jews.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_lands

Incidentally, a substancial number of Jews immigrated from Turkey to Israel as well, many of whom came from what would be classified as the "middle eastern" portion of the country, as well as some Jews from Iran, neither of which are factored into that Wikpedia list. (Although they probably are factored into that second number about half of Iraelis being descendants of Sephardic Jews.) You also had some degree of Sephardic immigration to Israel prior to 1948.
 

kylebisme

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2000
9,396
0
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Originally posted by: Aegeon
Originally posted by: TheSnowman
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to ignore the atrocities committed against those in Egypt or elsewhere. Rather, I simply mistook your previous comments to imply that the Jewish populations were ejected from certian Arab nations en masse as I have seen others suggest elsewere, and hence I was attempting to clarify the complexity of the situation.
If you read through the link in sufficient detail, you'll note that a rather large portion of the Jewish population was effectively forcibly expelled either through blatant deportations, or arbitrarily arresting Jews and only agreeing to release them on the condition they leave the country and promise never to return. The total numbers outright forced out in this manner was a substancial portion of the former Egpytian Jewish population, (especially when you consider that generally the family ended up joining him when the primary breadwinner of a family was expelled) although these events may have occured over 11 years rather than all at once.
Yeah, read though the whole link and it jives with what I have learned elsewhere. Again, I simply mistook your previous comment to suggest en masse expulsion and I apologize for the confusion.

 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,512
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It's probably because Israel stole land from the palestinians to create their country. It would been better if Israel were never created.
 

ThePresence

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
27,730
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Originally posted by: zephyrprime
It's probably because Israel stole land from the palestinians to create their country. It would been better if Israel were never created.
It's these type of ignorant statements that help contrribute to baseless hatred of Israel.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
2
0
I don't really see the creation of Israel any different than most other Middle Eastern countries. It was created from colonialism. If Israel doesn't have the right to exist, neither does Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, etc.

That doesn't mean that I agree with their policies though.
 

Termagant

Senior member
Mar 10, 2006
765
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If you want a UN that is a real forum for countries to bring forth resolutions, debates, etc., then this is what you get.

A voting bloc of Arab countries will always out vote a few diehard Israel supporters. It's democracy of the nations, and it's practically worthless except as a discussion forum.

If empty resolutions churning out of UN HQ ruffle you feathers, we can always go back to the bad old ways of diplomacy. Because before the UN was around no countries ever fought and no one ever died in "genocide."
 

Meuge

Banned
Nov 27, 2005
2,963
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So I am getting back to this thread and lo and behold, I see an answer for the poll that I put in jest, was actually fairly popular:

What bias? The UN, which created Israel, can and should destroy it, because it didn't serve the purpose of elminating the rest of the European Jewry who escaped the Holocaust.
3 votes 5.56 (%)

So I guess I should assume that 5% of the voting members of this forum support total genocide of Jews. Nice.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
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Your poll is what is biased. It assumes member states oppose Israel because of anti-americanism or anti-semitism.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
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Originally posted by: zephyrprime
It's probably because Israel stole land from the palestinians to create their country. It would been better if Israel were never created.

The Palestinians never wanted a country - they wanted excuses for their failures.
 

Meuge

Banned
Nov 27, 2005
2,963
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Originally posted by: Infohawk
Your poll is what is biased. It assumes member states oppose Israel because of anti-americanism or anti-semitism.
Really? So none of the choices were to your satisfaction?
 

firewall

Platinum Member
Oct 11, 2001
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Originally posted by: Meuge
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Your poll is what is biased. It assumes member states oppose Israel because of anti-americanism or anti-semitism.
Really? So none of the choices were to your satisfaction?

All of the options are blaming anyone but Israel in the poll:

Economics of Middle Eastern oil are more important to the member states.

Blame oil politics.

Stragegic damage to a valuable ally of the U.S. undermines our status as a superpower, and thus serves the interests of the member states.

Blame the US.

If there is one thing that the world can agree on is hatred of the Jewish people.

Blame hatred of Jewish people.

What bias? The UN, which created Israel, can and should destroy it, because it didn't serve the purpose of elminating the rest of the European Jewry who escaped the Holocaust.

Make a useless statement and wave the holocaust sympathy card. meh...

There is no bias

A partially correct answer. There is obvious bias in favor of the US for various reasons. How do you think the Iraq war got its backing? I find it curious how the US doesn't supports any resolutions against Israel. There must be some basis for so many resolutions against Israel, after all.

How about you add an option stating that 'Israel must be doing something seriously wrong and inhumane which results in so many UN resolutions against them'?
 

ThePresence

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
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Originally posted by: asadasif
How about you add an option stating that 'Israel must be doing something seriously wrong and inhumane which results in so many UN resolutions against them'?

Your sig pretty much invalidates any argument you might make in this matter. You're giving thumbsup to Vanunu, one of the biggest traitors in the history of Israel. You obviously have something against Israel.
 

Islamistani

Member
Jul 5, 2006
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Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: asadasif
How about you add an option stating that 'Israel must be doing something seriously wrong and inhumane which results in so many UN resolutions against them'?

Your sig pretty much invalidates any argument you might make in this matter. You're giving thumbsup to Vanunu, one of the biggest traitors in the history of Israel. You obviously have something against Israel.

A post which discounts valid points by making up an excuse irrelevant to the topic in discussion. Kudos to you bro :thumbsup:
 

ThePresence

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
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Originally posted by: Islamistani
Originally posted by: ThePresence
Originally posted by: asadasif
How about you add an option stating that 'Israel must be doing something seriously wrong and inhumane which results in so many UN resolutions against them'?
Your sig pretty much invalidates any argument you might make in this matter. You're giving thumbsup to Vanunu, one of the biggest traitors in the history of Israel. You obviously have something against Israel.
A post which discounts valid points by making up an excuse irrelevant to the topic in discussion. Kudos to you bro :thumbsup:
I'd be willing to have a discussion about the points with someone who has an open mind, as evidenced in other threads. I don't think someone with an obvious agenda has any business discussing why there may be an Anti-Israel bias at the UN when he obviously shares that very same bias.