Anti GW folks, please refute this

[NeoV]

LINKY

Set aside any other discussion or technical detail of the GW discussion.

Explain to me how the graph in the picture - which comes from NASA, doesn't make you realize that humans are in fact having a major impact on the earth's climate, right now.

Forget Al Gore, Forget his movie, his energy use - forget carbon credits, and the so-called Carbon-con.

 

[Atreus21]

When was the last time CO2 levels were that high?

If they have been that high before 650,000 years ago, how do they account for the fact that humans weren't around back then?

 

[SP33Demon]

The polar icecaps are proof enough, you don't need this graph. Sad that Europe will soon lose their summers.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Atreus21
When was the last time CO2 levels were that high?

If they have been that high before 650,000 years ago, how do they account for the fact that humans weren't around back then?

Maybe the animals back then drove cars? Considering their size, probably monster SUVs no less!

 

[Lemon law]

Don't get me wrong NeoV, I am a big believer in the threat of GW, but as we are just still in the infancy of understanding the underlying science, critics will point out that atmospheric CO2 is not all that important by itself. And historically, CO2 levels did not in the past equate well with overall global warming or cooling. With something like 50,000
years lags between cause and effect.

 

[Genx87]

btw you should change your title. I dont know many people who dont believe the Earth if warming. What it should read is MMGW. People dont believe we are the primary cause of the current warming trend.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Don't get me wrong NeoV, I am a big believer in the threat of GW, but as we are just still in the infancy of understanding the underlying science, critics will point out that atmospheric CO2 is not all that important by itself. And historically, CO2 levels did not in the past equate well with overall global warming or cooling. With something like 50,000
years lags between cause and effect.

From what we have seen so far. Co2 lags warming by ~500 years. Meaning the earth warms then the Co2, not the other way around like the MMGW crowd wants us to believe.

 

[ayabe]

Everything you need to know about the disinformation campaign regarding MMGW comes from this internal memo:

Text

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

Yes...please change title to say MMGW if that's what you mean. Anti GW is a strawman of the worst kind...yet so many actually think that way.

 

[mxyzptlk]

The problem I'm seeing with this graph is that it only goes back 650,000 years. That's such a small portion of the earths history that it hardly seems meaningful. What if there are cycles at work with a period measured in millions of years?

aside from that, there are so many other ways that humans are drastically changing the earths surface, that focusing so much on just one aspect is foolish and dangerous. We need to look at the entire picture if we're going to attempt to sustain 10 billion people on this rock..

 

[Doc Savage Fan]

The graph would be much more interesting if temperature and solar activity were also shown.

 

[imported_Pedro69]

Official release from The American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS), December 2006:
http://www.aaas.org/news/relea...0218am_statement.shtml

The scientific evidence is clear: global climate change caused by human activities is occurring now, and it is a growing threat to society. Accumulating data from across the globe reveal a wide array of effects: rapidly melting glaciers, destabilization of major ice sheets, increases in extreme weather, rising sea level, shifts in species ranges, and more. The pace of change and the evidence of harm have increased markedly over the last five years. The time to control greenhouse gas emissions is now.
The atmospheric concentration of carbon dioxide, a critical greenhouse gas, is higher than it has been for at least 650,000 years. The average temperature of the Earth is heading for levels not experienced for millions of years. Scientific predictions of the impacts of increasing atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases from fossil fuels and deforestation match observed changes. As expected, intensification of droughts, heat waves, floods, wildfires, and severe storms is occurring, with a mounting toll on vulnerable ecosystems and societies. These events are early warning signs of even more devastating damage to come, some of which will be irreversible.

Delaying action to address climate change will increase the environmental and societal consequences as well as the costs. The longer we wait to tackle climate change, the harder and more expensive the task will be.

History provides many examples of society confronting grave threats by mobilizing knowledge and promoting innovation. We need an aggressive research, development and deployment effort to transform the existing and future energy systems of the world away from technologies that emit greenhouse gases. Developing clean energy technologies will provide economic opportunities and ensure future energy supplies.

In addition to rapidly reducing greenhouse gas emissions, it is essential that we develop strategies to adapt to ongoing changes and make communities more resilient to future changes.

The growing torrent of information presents a clear message: we are already experiencing global climate change. It is time to muster the political will for concerted action. Stronger leadership at all levels is needed. The time is now. We must rise to the challenge. We owe this to future generations.

About the AAAS:
http://www.aaas.org/aboutaaas/

AAAS History
Founded in 1848, AAAS serves some 262 affiliated societies and academies of science, serving 10 million individuals. Science has the largest paid circulation of any peer-reviewed general science journal in the world, with an estimated total readership of one million. The non-profit AAAS is open to all and fulfills its mission to "advance science and serve society" through initiatives in science policy; international programs; science education; and more. For the latest research news, log onto EurekAlert!, the premier science-news Web site, a service of AAAS.

 

[OutHouse]

wasnt that graph in gores movies?

its not global warming we need to worry about, its the coming ice age.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: NeoV
LINKY

Set aside any other discussion or technical detail of the GW discussion.

Explain to me how the graph in the picture - which comes from NASA, doesn't make you realize that humans are in fact having a major impact on the earth's climate, right now.

You have not proven CO2 equals Temperature, at least not on a global scale.

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
The polar icecaps are proof enough, you don't need this graph. Sad that Europe will soon lose their summers.

There have been periods where ice has not existed at all on either/both caps. It is nothing new to lose them entirely. It?s amazing what you?ll believe when you only know part of history and leave out the parts that don?t fit a dogma.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
Don't get me wrong NeoV, I am a big believer in the threat of GW, but as we are just still in the infancy of understanding the underlying science, critics will point out that atmospheric CO2 is not all that important by itself. And historically, CO2 levels did not in the past equate well with overall global warming or cooling. With something like 50,000
years lags between cause and effect.

The ice core charts suggest CO2 lags behind temperature by 500 years. Not 50,000.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: NeoV
LINKY

Set aside any other discussion or technical detail of the GW discussion.

Explain to me how the graph in the picture - which comes from NASA, doesn't make you realize that humans are in fact having a major impact on the earth's climate, right now.

You have not proven CO2 equals Temperature, at least not on a global scale.

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
The polar icecaps are proof enough, you don't need this graph. Sad that Europe will soon lose their summers.

There have been periods where ice has not existed at all on either/both caps. It is nothing new to lose them entirely. It?s amazing what you?ll believe when you only know part of history and leave out the parts that don?t fit a dogma.

Except the question isn't if ice is there or not, but if it is desirable from our point of view. The earth was once also a ball of molten rock but somehow I don't think that's the outcome we should be shooting for either.

 

[BassBomb]

I don't know how people can think that global warming does not exist, regardless of this graph or studies

In my experience, I have noticed how the seasons have constantly "moved" and no longer sync up the way they used to.

For example:

Before: It used to get cold right in October, Snow in Nov, snow most intense in Jan, through to February, Begin melting March, Snow gone by April

Now: Hot Sept, Warm Oct, Bitterly cold Nov, Cold December, Snow starting Jan through end of March, most intense snow was in the middle of march, it melted by mid april but remained bitterly cold into May.

 

[Genx87]

Bassbomb where do you live?

In MN we have been having pretty mild winters until last Winter. Coldest I can remember, brutally cold and lasted from late Oct till mid April. Our Summer has been very very mild. Our lakes didnt thaw up north until early May. Some of them didnt thaw until after fishing opener. We are really struggling getting to 80 degree's and it is nearly July.

I remember it being much warmer here as a kid.

btw like we have said earlier. It isnt a matter of the earth warming, but how much man contributes that is being discussed.

 

[BassBomb]

Ontario Canada

Lived in Ottawa for 13 years and Oakville for the last 6 (I am 21)

Commenting mostly on Oakville's weather

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: BassBomb
I don't know how people can think that global warming does not exist, regardless of this graph or studies

In my experience, I have noticed how the seasons have constantly "moved" and no longer sync up the way they used to.

For example:

Before: It used to get cold right in October, Snow in Nov, snow most intense in Jan, through to February, Begin melting March, Snow gone by April

Now: Hot Sept, Warm Oct, Bitterly cold Nov, Cold December, Snow starting Jan through end of March, most intense snow was in the middle of march, it melted by mid april but remained bitterly cold into May.

Season Creep

 

[Deeko]

I wonder why it stops at 650k years? That's really not that long.

 

[NeoV]

I'm not sure how much further back we have accurate CO2 readings..

One chart on recent temperatures vs greenhouse gas levels..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...Change_Attribution.png

 

[dainthomas]

Originally posted by: Deeko
I wonder why it stops at 650k years? That's really not that long.

Maybe the ice cores only go back that far. Are there other ways to determine it?

Anyone see the article on the lack of sunspots? Astronomers are wondering why there are hardly any sunspots still given the fact that the sun's cycle is supposed to be ramping up again. I wonder if this has anything to do with the cold winter this year? Could a long term decrease in sunspots (such as in the Little Ice Age) slow, stop, or reverse recent warming?

 

[soccerballtux]

Originally posted by: dainthomas

Originally posted by: Deeko
I wonder why it stops at 650k years? That's really not that long.

Maybe the ice cores only go back that far. Are there other ways to determine it?

Anyone see the article on the lack of sunspots? Astronomers are wondering why there are hardly any sunspots still given the fact that the sun's cycle is supposed to be ramping up again. I wonder if this has anything to do with the cold winter this year? Could a long term decrease in sunspots (such as in the Little Ice Age) slow, stop, or reverse recent warming?

Ice cores are not a valid source; simple particle diffusion laws show us these samples aren't good for anything longer than ~10,000 years for determining CO2 in the atmosphere.

 

[ElFenix]

Anthropogenic Global Warming