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ANTEC P180 available ( silver only)
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B.S. E.E. Texas A&M 1980.
Your comment about potential energy of the platter - if it were valid or important - would put every piece of machinery at risk that rotates in a vertical alignment. Billions and billions of gears, wheels, flywheels, etc. around the world work perfectly well in this orientation. I think your analysis is flawed because you consider only one point on the platter surface, not the essentially infinite number of points. I think the far more important issues are bearing related - heat and lubrication have much more significance.
The head actuator is far lighter and has very little moving mass. I agree that orienting it vertically might have some theoretical effect - the actuator should be slightly slower moving vertically than downward. You have not presented the case for more wear and tear though.
You seem to associate shortened warranties from 3 to 1 year with vertical orientation. You haven't shown anything to explain that. I think a more likely reason is simply that the HD makers are simply getting cheap. Or is there more to this?
Your comment about potential energy of the platter - if it were valid or important - would put every piece of machinery at risk that rotates in a vertical alignment. Billions and billions of gears, wheels, flywheels, etc. around the world work perfectly well in this orientation. I think your analysis is flawed because you consider only one point on the platter surface, not the essentially infinite number of points. I think the far more important issues are bearing related - heat and lubrication have much more significance.
The head actuator is far lighter and has very little moving mass. I agree that orienting it vertically might have some theoretical effect - the actuator should be slightly slower moving vertically than downward. You have not presented the case for more wear and tear though.
You seem to associate shortened warranties from 3 to 1 year with vertical orientation. You haven't shown anything to explain that. I think a more likely reason is simply that the HD makers are simply getting cheap. Or is there more to this?
Let's touch up on turbomachinery design 101...
Most machines DO NOT operate at 7200 rpm in the X, Y, Z axis for 8 hours a day, 260 days/year. They are also significantly larger than the hard drive. A larger package translates to a more durable bearing with much higher factor of safety. We often see force feed lubrication to extend the service life of the bearing.
Race car engines can hit 10,000 rpm, but they are only designed to run a 500 mile race. The hard drive manufacturers could increase the safety factor, but this would increase the cost of the product.
Eccentric loading is a very important variable in the design of high speed rotating devices. In today's faster n cheaper economy, finding that perfectly balanced disc platter is increasingly rare. You certainly don't want to mount the hard drive in a manner that would INCREASE the flywheel effect at 7200 rpm. F=ma.
The effect of potential energy (mgh) is real on the pickup head. It requires more force to move the head against gravity. This translates to more heat and wear and tear on the drive mechanism. The faster the seek speed, the more force is required to quickly change the direction of movement. By mounting the hard drive in the horizontal plane, one can ELIMINATE the effect of potential energy on the pickup head. A system will wear out faster if it has to do more work per unit of time.
What is the number one failure mode in a notebook? Can it be the hard drive? Vendors reduce the warranty from 3 to 1 to beef up profit margin. When folks are mounting the hard drive in a postition that will increase the wear rate on the bearing, the most effective course of action is to reduce the warranty period.
I have the laws of physics to backup my analysis. If the hard drive doesn't fail within the warranty period, then the hard drive mfr will make $.
Most machines DO NOT operate at 7200 rpm in the X, Y, Z axis for 8 hours a day, 260 days/year. They are also significantly larger than the hard drive. A larger package translates to a more durable bearing with much higher factor of safety. We often see force feed lubrication to extend the service life of the bearing.
Race car engines can hit 10,000 rpm, but they are only designed to run a 500 mile race. The hard drive manufacturers could increase the safety factor, but this would increase the cost of the product.
Eccentric loading is a very important variable in the design of high speed rotating devices. In today's faster n cheaper economy, finding that perfectly balanced disc platter is increasingly rare. You certainly don't want to mount the hard drive in a manner that would INCREASE the flywheel effect at 7200 rpm. F=ma.
The effect of potential energy (mgh) is real on the pickup head. It requires more force to move the head against gravity. This translates to more heat and wear and tear on the drive mechanism. The faster the seek speed, the more force is required to quickly change the direction of movement. By mounting the hard drive in the horizontal plane, one can ELIMINATE the effect of potential energy on the pickup head. A system will wear out faster if it has to do more work per unit of time.
What is the number one failure mode in a notebook? Can it be the hard drive? Vendors reduce the warranty from 3 to 1 to beef up profit margin. When folks are mounting the hard drive in a postition that will increase the wear rate on the bearing, the most effective course of action is to reduce the warranty period.
I have the laws of physics to backup my analysis. If the hard drive doesn't fail within the warranty period, then the hard drive mfr will make $.
IceWindius
Member
Sorry Fur, but im with the guys at SilentPC on this one. They do this crap for a living and worked with one of the worlds largest and best case makers to design this and HIGHLY doubt they would have over looked area's you keep griping about. They have the knowledge, expertise, experience, know how and data to back up their claims.
You on the other hand, have 58 posts in a random tech forum claiming you know it all......sorry bud, won't fly.
You on the other hand, have 58 posts in a random tech forum claiming you know it all......sorry bud, won't fly.
You have the laws of physics on your side! If only actual and anectdotal data backed you up. My 7 yr old Dell PII 266 has a vertically mounted Quantum Fireball and it still works perfectly.
You seem to think a heavier device automatically means better bearing. I think it is up to the manufacturer to design for the requirements. What evidence do you have that it is rare to find a perfectly balanced platter today? I'd say it is easier than ever as manufacturers improve their processes. It's no big deal now to make cpus with 10M transistors. Hard drives used to have ferric oxide on their platters applied with a slurry. Now they can create super thin magnetic coatings with no difficulty.
I suggest your theory based arguments are inconsequential in practice. You have no actual data, just a prediction, that vertical mounting produces meaningfully different reliability with hard drives.
You seem to think a heavier device automatically means better bearing. I think it is up to the manufacturer to design for the requirements. What evidence do you have that it is rare to find a perfectly balanced platter today? I'd say it is easier than ever as manufacturers improve their processes. It's no big deal now to make cpus with 10M transistors. Hard drives used to have ferric oxide on their platters applied with a slurry. Now they can create super thin magnetic coatings with no difficulty.
I suggest your theory based arguments are inconsequential in practice. You have no actual data, just a prediction, that vertical mounting produces meaningfully different reliability with hard drives.
Capt Caveman
Lifer
Just buy a Seagate and you'll have your five year warranty. And yeah, companies have reduced their warranties b/c they're afraid people are going to mount their hard drives vertical. Sure Newton.
And how about a rebuttal on this:
HDD mounting demystified
BioHazards
Member
Western Digital
Warranty Overview
All external and retail kit drives: 1 year (except WD Raptor®). WD Raptor: 5 years.
Bare Drives (Drive Only): Protege and WD Caviar®: 1 Year. WD Caviar® SE and RE: 3 years. WD Scorpio®: 3 years. WD
Maxtor HD
The following Standard Warranty Period will apply to Maxtor products purchased by distributors from Maxtor on or after September 12, 2004:
Maxtor Fireball®, DiamondMax® ATA/SATA and DiamondMax Plus ATA /SATA drives will carry a Standard Warranty Period of 3 years.
Maxtor MaXLine? ATA/SATA drives will carry a Standard Warranty Period of 5 years.
Warranty Overview
All external and retail kit drives: 1 year (except WD Raptor®). WD Raptor: 5 years.
Bare Drives (Drive Only): Protege and WD Caviar®: 1 Year. WD Caviar® SE and RE: 3 years. WD Scorpio®: 3 years. WD
Maxtor HD
The following Standard Warranty Period will apply to Maxtor products purchased by distributors from Maxtor on or after September 12, 2004:
Maxtor Fireball®, DiamondMax® ATA/SATA and DiamondMax Plus ATA /SATA drives will carry a Standard Warranty Period of 3 years.
Maxtor MaXLine? ATA/SATA drives will carry a Standard Warranty Period of 5 years.
IceWindius
Member
And the king of them all, Seagate with 5 YEAR OEM drives. Talk about kick ass.
shira
Diamond Member
Yeah. And the absurdity of the contention that verticle mounting compromises reliability just begs the question: If Seagate offers a 5-year warranty and "knows" from it's extensive research that verticle mounting severely compromises reliability, then WHY doesn't Seagate make mounting recommendations to its customers? Laziness?
Capt Caveman
Lifer
Computerhq supposedly has two in stock. But based on their resellerratings reviews, who knows and I wouldn't trust them.
http://www.computerhq.com/Antec_Perform.../P180/hardware/partinfo-id-549222.html
http://www.computerhq.com/Antec_Perform.../P180/hardware/partinfo-id-549222.html
ExpertNovice
Senior member
Yep, they showed none in stock the other day. My preorder (middle of may) still says none in stock. I've sent an email asking for an update and will be calling today.
MUCH money for them is on the line based on their response because if they say they are now out of stock I won't be buying the Phantom 500 from them. Plus, the case and the PSU are only the first two items of this next computer that I'm purchasing. Was only waiting on the case.
Edited to add that I'm talking about the P180.
ExpertNovice
Senior member
An individual at ComputerHQ told me that they have none in stock. The 2 listed in their website are what their "supplier/vendor" has.
ComputerHQ was suggesting that supplies were taking a month to arrive in the U.S. from overseas.
Edited to add that I'm talking about the P180.
ComputerHQ was suggesting that supplies were taking a month to arrive in the U.S. from overseas.
Edited to add that I'm talking about the P180.
beatle
Diamond Member
What's the deal with the CPU/video card duct? On SPCR's review it appears to just cover the video card. On The Tech Lounge's preview it shows the duct extending to the CPU. Which is the real thing?
TankGuys
Golden Member
Ask and ye shall receive 🙂
P180 - $133.66
*edit* In stock now. We have ~50 of them or so, despite what the website says.
P180 - $133.66
*edit* In stock now. We have ~50 of them or so, despite what the website says.
Capt Caveman
Lifer
Cool. Looks like you'll have an order from me for the P180 and a X2 4400+.
Your website shows a black(SPCR) P180, can I assume it's supposed to be the silver one?
Thx
enragedcow
Junior Member
Is it just a color difference, or something else? Anyone know?
TankGuys
Golden Member
I'm actually pretty sure it is the silver one. I'm not entirely sure why we have the black one on the site. It's actually pretty surprising how easy it is to post the incorrect picture, hence that nice little disclaimer that all of us shops have! I'll talk to my web guys in the morning and have them take care of it.
In any case, yes, I'm like 99% sure it's the silver model. I can let you know for absolute sure as soon as I find out.
PhoenixOrion
Diamond Member
nice. p180 case will work great with fortron psu fsp550 plg version.
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