Another year. Another caliper

[Mark R]

I think I've just had another brake caliper seize on me.

Vehicle is an 06 Lexus IS 250. It's had 5 caliper replacements so far in its life due to seizure, despite 6 monthly dealer servicing. Last time I took it in to the dealer, it needed 2 caliper replacements.

It went for an oil change service + safety inspection last month and a local independent, and no probs were found.

Earlier in the week, I started getting a metal-on-metal grinding at low speeds affected by brake pressure, but didn't have time to take it in or look at it immediately. Had a good look at the car today. Metal filings all over the passenger side front wheel. Outer pad, looks fine, about 75% of friction material remaining. Inner pad is completely oblique and down to the metal in part. Part of the inner surface of the rotor is torn to pieces, and the rotor is about half the thickness on the "inner" side as it is on the "outer" side.

Other wheel looks fine.

Pads and rotors have about 20k miles on, so are due for replacement (Yup. That's right, the OEM rotors only last 20k - I tried some generic rotors once, and got 10k; the rotors were worn out before the pads were).

Oh well, it's an excuse to try some "performance" rotors and pads, and see if they last any longer than the OEM ones. They're not significantly more expensive than OEM, so I'll give them a go.

Pic

 

[BUTCH1]

Wow, 5 caliper replacements? either someone's not doing the work correctly (not flushing out the brake system or properly lubing the pins) or it's a very badly designed system. I drive a cheap 9yr old GM product and are still on the original rotors@90K miles. I did learn a few tips from a web site that went deep into rotor issues and why they go bad early so often, one was if you need to make a stop from high speeds in a short amount of time slip the car into park after your stopped, when the pads are at extreme temperature they can leave deposits on the rotors, getting your foot off the brake pedal avoids this from happening, another is to vigilant about lug-nut torque, buy a torque-wrench and check them after the car's been serviced, make sure all the nuts are at the same tightness, (usually around 100ft lbs). Check around the web and see if others are having the same type of issues with you make/model car, Lexus is an "upper" tier brand, hard to imagine they would cheap out on brake design to save a few $$ in production cost..

 

[brainhulk]

That's crazy. I know a couple of people with IS's and have never heard of them complain about calipers

 

[someone16]

When they replace the caliper do they replace the caliper bracket as well? I would make sure the caliper bracket itself isn't rusted. Sometimes the brake pads get stuck on the bracket.

 

[DrPizza]

Is the garage actually replacing the calipers? Or are they "fixing" the calipers by rebuilding the bad part themselves - "well, let's just rub some steel wool on this slide and lube it a little with some cheap stuff. That counts as a rebuilt caliper, therefore we can claim we replaced them."

Otherwise, I cannot fathom the calipers going bad at that kind of interval.

 

[Mark R]

It's only been to the dealer for service according the manufacture schedule.

The dealer doesn't repair the calipers, they are replaced for whole new units. Lexus don't even offer a refurb kit of the dealer to do it themselves. It's a complete new unit: bracket, sliding caliper, cylinder, piston and slider pins.

This is the front passenger side - this was first replaced at 30k under warranty. The front driver side was replaced at 60k and again at 110k, and the two rears were replaced at 130k.

I'm guessing this must be a common issue, because my dealer has an "essential service fixed-price deal" for "common" service items: Oil + filter change; Air and cabin filter change; Front pads/rotors; rear pads/rotors; front caliper replacement; rear caliper replacement

Even stuff like spark plugs or diff fluid don't make it onto their "essential items" list.

 

[PottedMeat]

maybe the mounting point on the knuckle isn't right or there's something off about the rotor mount

 

[CurseTheSky]

Do you live on or drive on a dirt / gravel road or driveway often by chance?

Our driveway is gravel (well, mostly dirt now, we need to redo it), and it seems to cause all kinds of issues with brakes on our vehicles. The best I can figure is that the grit gets up inside the brake pads, calipers, and rotors and seizes / scores everything.

Just a theory, but worth considering. It does seem like once a year is way too much for seized calipers, though. If it were once every 3-4 years, I'd say something like my suggestion is likely.

 

[phucheneh]

I think I already said this with regard to your previous four calipers, but:

I don't think you have had one bad caliper. I can count the number of 'sticking' calipers I've ever seen on one hand. Most problems I've seen are related to inept people destroying calipers that have the e-brake in them because they couldn't figure out how to retract the piston. The pistons of a typical caliper (i.e. what you have) do not just randomly seize up in the bores.

Are the pins getting replaced when the caliper does? How about the bracket? I would bet money on it being one of those things that is actually your problem. You could have something as simple as a swollen rubber sleeve on the caliper pin. I have seen something that simple result in brake pads being gone in a matter of days (...and a heavy burning smell). I'm talking about the little guy on the end of the pin here-

Or simply a dirty pin with dried, sticky lubricant. Or rusted up hardware on the bracket (or just poorly-fitting aftermarket hardware).

You need a new mechanic. If he thinks he's just happened to have gotten five bad calipers, he is a worthless human being and should not be working on anything.

 

[monkeydelmagico]

You need a new mechanic. If he thinks he's just happened to have gotten five bad calipers, he is a worthless human being and should not be working on anything.

+1

If he was following the TSB this should not be a recurring problem.

I'd advise you learn how to do the brake work yourself. Will save alot of time and money.

 

[JulesMaximus]

That's crazy. I know a couple of people with IS's and have never heard of them complain about calipers

:thumbsup: We have over 110,000 miles on ours and have never had a single problem with the brakes (other than normal stuff like pads/rotors).

 

[Mark R]

+1

If he was following the TSB this should not be a recurring problem.

I'd advise you learn how to do the brake work yourself. Will save alot of time and money.

It's only ever been to the dealership - 2 different dealerships!

It's not going back to the last place that did the annual inspection. The legal minimum is supposedly 1/16" of friction material. From what I could see is that it's metal-on-metal on the inner pad.

Anyway I found a new mechanic, and phoned him to get the car booked in. He laughed and said almost never has to replace calipers.

 

[Mark R]

Update : caliper slider carrier was totally seized.

Couldn't be removed for cleaning. Had to break it off. Slider pin also seized solid and couldn't be freed. Drilling wasn't successful.

Cliffs: needed a new caliper

 

[monkeydelmagico]

Normally I would say always go OEM but you need to try a NAPA caliper just for the lols.

 

[brainhulk]

I would sell it ASAP after your new mechanic "fixes" it. Just not to anyone here...lol

 

[PottedMeat]

I would sell it ASAP after your new mechanic "fixes" it. Just not to anyone here...lol

no way - 6 down, 2 more and he gets a free camry