Another way to look at the illegal immigrant debate

[BigToque]

link

 

[effowe]

Maddox makes a good point, you should probably mark as NSFW for language.

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

His analogy wasn't even valid. Who is this guy again?

 

[Specop 007]

Sounds like one of those idiots who thinks hes smart.

His anaolgy is flawed. People dont knowingly play by wells with the intention of falling in, nor is it illegal to play by wells.

It is however illegal to break into the country. It is however illegal to not pay taxes on your wages (Which admittedly many true Americans are guilty of). Lastly, there are provisions and processes in place so anyone from any country can legally come to this country to work.

 

[lobbyone]

hmmm...he is crazy man!

 

[j00fek]

P&N--------------->

 

[vi edit]

He's correct on the competition standpoint, but he fails to address the financial stress that illegals put on healthcare, education, and various other welfare support systems.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
He's correct on the competition standpoint, but he fails to address the financial stress that illegals put on healthcare, education, and various other welfare support systems.

Not entirely correct on the competition standpoint. If two candidates would do the job roughly equal, but one would work for sufficiently less....Who would you hire. You could be the best damned worker in the WORLD, but if your being paid 3 times what others in you rline of work are doing your gonna get the boot for someone who does ok work and costs far less.

Dont believe me? One word. Outsourcing.

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: vi_edit
He's correct on the competition standpoint, but he fails to address the financial stress that illegals put on healthcare, education, and various other welfare support systems.

Not entirely correct on the competition standpoint. If two candidates would do the job roughly equal, but one would work for sufficiently less....Who would you hire. You could be the best damned worker in the WORLD, but if your being paid 3 times what others in you rline of work are doing your gonna get the boot for someone who does ok work and costs far less.

Dont believe me? One word. Outsourcing.

But the thing is though, illegals aren't competing for jobs that most people want to do any way.

The only place that I can see them really wrecking havoc is in the construction field (drywalling, painting, framing ect) by undercutting labor rates. But that's no hair off my sack, union labor is overpriced anyway. I can get my house built for cheaper...and probably better.

 

[CollectiveUnconscious]

Flawed argument, but great entertainment.

 

[KarenMarie]

There is a HUGE difference between an immigrant and an ILLEGAL immigrant, the latter of which should not be here, are not entitled to a job no matter what the wages. If they want to come here and work, they need to apply just like every other law abiding person who immigrates here.

If they are illegal, they should not be here to begin with, so all other debate after that is moot, imho.

 

[DaShen]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
His analogy wasn't even valid. Who is this guy again?

Agreed.

I am in the middle with this issue anyways, too.

BTW, the reason why immigrants are hired is because the companies can pay them less.

 

[everman]

There is also the problem of putting a greater strain on things like health care and education. Someone can come here illegally, get free health care, and someone does pay.

 

[Specop 007]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: vi_edit
He's correct on the competition standpoint, but he fails to address the financial stress that illegals put on healthcare, education, and various other welfare support systems.

Not entirely correct on the competition standpoint. If two candidates would do the job roughly equal, but one would work for sufficiently less....Who would you hire. You could be the best damned worker in the WORLD, but if your being paid 3 times what others in you rline of work are doing your gonna get the boot for someone who does ok work and costs far less.

Dont believe me? One word. Outsourcing.

But the thing is though, illegals aren't competing for jobs that most people want to do any way.

The only place that I can see them really wrecking havoc is in the construction field (drywalling, painting, framing ect) by undercutting labor rates. But that's no hair off my sack, union labor is overpriced anyway. I can get my house built for cheaper...and probably better.

And therein is the problem with the argument.
Are illegals doing jobs Americans simply dont want to do, or are illegals forcing wages down in certain fields to levels Americans dont want to work at?

Some say illegals do jobs Americans dont want to do, some say illegals lower wages to levels Americans dont want to work at. Personally, I think its a bit of both.

But the job issue is a non issue to me in regards to illegal immigration.

 

[Linflas]

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: vi_edit
He's correct on the competition standpoint, but he fails to address the financial stress that illegals put on healthcare, education, and various other welfare support systems.

Not entirely correct on the competition standpoint. If two candidates would do the job roughly equal, but one would work for sufficiently less....Who would you hire. You could be the best damned worker in the WORLD, but if your being paid 3 times what others in you rline of work are doing your gonna get the boot for someone who does ok work and costs far less.

Dont believe me? One word. Outsourcing.

But the thing is though, illegals aren't competing for jobs that most people want to do any way.

The only place that I can see them really wrecking havoc is in the construction field (drywalling, painting, framing ect) by undercutting labor rates. But that's no hair off my sack, union labor is overpriced anyway. I can get my house built for cheaper...and probably better.

And therein is the problem with the argument.
Are illegals doing jobs Americans simply dont want to do, or are illegals forcing wages down in certain fields to levels Americans dont want to work at?

Some say illegals do jobs Americans dont want to do, some say illegals lower wages to levels Americans dont want to work at. Personally, I think its a bit of both.

But the job issue is a non issue to me in regards to illegal immigration.

Absent the illegals the wages would have to rise to a point where citizens would do the job. Of course the rest of us would bear this cost as well so we really have to decide as a country which situation we find more tolerable.

 

[KarenMarie]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

Originally posted by: Specop 007

Originally posted by: vi_edit
He's correct on the competition standpoint, but he fails to address the financial stress that illegals put on healthcare, education, and various other welfare support systems.

Not entirely correct on the competition standpoint. If two candidates would do the job roughly equal, but one would work for sufficiently less....Who would you hire. You could be the best damned worker in the WORLD, but if your being paid 3 times what others in you rline of work are doing your gonna get the boot for someone who does ok work and costs far less.

Dont believe me? One word. Outsourcing.

But the thing is though, illegals aren't competing for jobs that most people want to do any way.

The only place that I can see them really wrecking havoc is in the construction field (drywalling, painting, framing ect) by undercutting labor rates. But that's no hair off my sack, union labor is overpriced anyway. I can get my house built for cheaper...and probably better.

I don't agree with that at all.

Construction
Restuarant
Hotels
Landscaping
Fast food

Most of the jobs that college kids did during vacation or after school... or single moms did did for extra cash. These jobs are not even available anymore. and if they are, the wage is cut so low that it is hardly worth it.

 

[GasX]

He then hung up on me and proceeded to repeat his argument verbatim, even though I handed him a plate full of his ass with all the trimmings...

Few things are more annoying that someone who over values the strength of their arguments.

 

[Aikouka]

He's pretty much guilty of being a hypocrite. He goes off telling people to stop being prejudiced, yet he thinks of all the people who go for these low-end jobs as sloths who don't deserve the job (based on the fact that they don't do a good job). Worst Maddox article ever and it makes me ashamed to think of his previous work as any bit reputable... now he just looks like an attention whore feeding off public issues more than anything.

 

[ShotgunSteven]

Originally posted by: KarenMarie
There is a HUGE difference between an immigrant and an ILLEGAL immigrant, the latter of which should not be here, are not entitled to a job no matter what the wages. If they want to come here and work, they need to apply just like every other law abiding person who immigrates here.

If they are illegal, they should not be here to begin with, so all other debate after that is moot, imho.

/thread