Another way the rich get richer

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a123456

Senior member
Oct 26, 2006
885
0
0
In post number 17 you said at 5 percent interest it would amount to $587 thousand dollars. I hardly think that amount qualifies someone as being wealthy. Besides that, how can you possibly predict that someone will earn an average of 5 percent in the future?

Lots of discussion going on, but I have to agree that 5% is really really conservative over the long run.

Just look at the 10 year *risk-free* rate: http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=^TNX+Interactive#symbol=^TNX;range=my

Most of the time, the rate is way above 5%. It's just the last few years where we've dipped below. If the risk free rate is that high, investments with a little risk tend to earn even higher.

Also, as pointed out, investment planning is important. Risk profile will change depending on your time horizon. People who are going to retire soon would shift to low risk investments, meaning they wouldn't lose a huge chunk of it, no matter what the market does.

I'd hardly scoff at 587k if it's manageable and relatively easy to do. It's note not ultra rich, but it's a good bit for retirement and 100x better than living paycheck to paycheck until age 70.
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
I don't think spending less of your income can make you rich. If you earn $10 per hour and even if you could somehow manage to save half of your income and put it into an interest bearing account, you would never live long enough to have enough money to be considered wealthy.
Maybe not for $10/h but for $20/h you can build huge amounts of cash if you cheap out on everything.

My job is pretty low paying because I'm entry level, but my bank account is growing very quickly. I hardcore cheap out on everything. I use the same razor blade for half a year. I take baths in $5/gallon store brand dish soap, I wash out old water bottles and reuse them until I lose or break them, and I keep a flat of diet store brand coke in my trunk so I don't need to buy a drink when I go to McDonalds where I often order just 2 cheeseburgers and nothing else.
 

JimW1949

Senior member
Mar 22, 2011
244
0
0
Maybe not for $10/h but for $20/h you can build huge amounts of cash if you cheap out on everything.

My job is pretty low paying because I'm entry level, but my bank account is growing very quickly. I hardcore cheap out on everything. I use the same razor blade for half a year. I take baths in $5/gallon store brand dish soap, I wash out old water bottles and reuse them until I lose or break them, and I keep a flat of diet store brand coke in my trunk so I don't need to buy a drink when I go to McDonalds where I often order just 2 cheeseburgers and nothing else.
Understood, but is that really a good thing to do? Why are you working? I worked so that I could make a living, but there is more to living than just surviving. Saving money is a good thing to do, but it should not be done to the exclusion of all else. What good is having a lot of money at some point in the future if you scrimp so much today that you ruin your health and never have any enjoyment during your lifetime? By all means, save some money. But don't get carried away and try to save every nickel you ever made. Live a little, enjoy your life, you have no idea how long you will be around so don't spend your life hoarding money. Save some money and spend some money and try to be happy.
 

JimW1949

Senior member
Mar 22, 2011
244
0
0
I am retired now, but when I was working I got to meet many people, people from all walks of life. I was an electronic technician and I worked on all sorts of different equipment. Some of the work was in customer's homes, other times it was in a business. After many years of going to work and meeting many different people in the process of doing my work , I came to understand that people who are wealthy do not really associate with people who are not of the same "position" in life. Wealthy people tend to associate with other people of wealth. Now I suppose someone will probably make a post and say that is nonsense and they know of a multi-millionaire who is their best buddy and they do everything together, or something similar to that. All I can say to that is, "Who cares"? I play golf and I am sure a lot of wealthy people play golf too. But do the wealthy people play at the same golf course I do? Do they bowl on the same league as I do? If they like to bowl they probably have a bowling alley in their home. Wealthy people tend to live in neighborhoods where other wealthy people live and they tend to associate with other wealthy people.

Now it occurred to me that so many people here, judging by the things they say, are nothing less than a full fledged financial whiz. Logically then, it would stand to reason these same people must be well on their way to becoming millionaires, and perhaps even billionaires. So I have to wonder why it is that someone with such vast knowledge and wealth would bother to come to this forum and tell others how stupid they are? Why would someone with such wealth and obvious "way above average" abilities, waste their valuable time frequenting a forum and insulting others?

I would think anyone who is so incredibly intelligent in the art of finance so as to be able to take a person with little more than a minimum wage paying job and turning that person into a millionaire, would be someone highly sought after to advise the government, to head up a financial institution on Wall Street, or at the very least to be a professor at some ivy league university. But that doesn't seem to be the case with the "soon to be millionaires" who come to this forum to insult the rest of us. I have to wonder why someone of such prominence would waste their time coming here and "associating" with people of obviously a far lesser mentality. That would be like Einstein going to an institution for the retarded and telling them how stupid they are. What would be the point?

In conclusion, I can only say that I have my doubts some of you people are as wealthy as you would want others to be believe and you are not the financial guru you think you are. Because if you were all these things, logically you would not even be here.
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,286
145
106
I am retired now, but when I was working I got to meet many people, people from all walks of life. I was an electronic technician and I worked on all sorts of different equipment. Some of the work was in customer's homes, other times it was in a business. After many years of going to work and meeting many different people in the process of doing my work , I came to understand that people who are wealthy do not really associate with people who are not of the same "position" in life. Wealthy people tend to associate with other people of wealth. Now I suppose someone will probably make a post and say that is nonsense and they know of a multi-millionaire who is their best buddy and they do everything together, or something similar to that. All I can say to that is, "Who cares"? I play golf and I am sure a lot of wealthy people play golf too. But do the wealthy people play at the same golf course I do? Do they bowl on the same league as I do? If they like to bowl they probably have a bowling alley in their home. Wealthy people tend to live in neighborhoods where other wealthy people live and they tend to associate with other wealthy people.
Ah, class warfare at its finest. "There's the us and theres the them!". I bet you never thought about this, but not all wealthy people drive Ferraris, have bowling alleys in their homes, or in try to show off their wealth in other ways. Many rich people are average joes. In fact, that was much of what the OP was all about.

Now it occurred to me that so many people here, judging by the things they say, are nothing less than a full fledged financial whiz. Logically then, it would stand to reason these same people must be well on their way to becoming millionaires, and perhaps even billionaires.
It has nothing to do with being a "financial whiz" and everything to do with "We know how to manage our own money". By the time I retire, I fully expect to have more than $1,000,000 in savings. I don't expect that I'll be living as a king though.

So I have to wonder why it is that someone with such vast knowledge and wealth would bother to come to this forum and tell others how stupid they are? Why would someone with such wealth and obvious "way above average" abilities, waste their valuable time frequenting a forum and insulting others?
You're making a whole lot of assumptions. We don't have "way above average" abilities. The people that commonly frequent these forums just have lots of desire to research these sorts of subjects. Some people here ARE actual financial consultants, etc (no, I'm not one of them).

Speaking for myself, I like discussing and debating about subjects that I'm familiar with. I find that to be some of the best way to gain more knowledge on a subject and many different points of view.

I would think anyone who is so incredibly intelligent in the art of finance so as to be able to take a person with little more than a minimum wage paying job and turning that person into a millionaire, would be someone highly sought after to advise the government, to head up a financial institution on Wall Street, or at the very least to be a professor at some ivy league university.
Dude, all we did was take YOUR parameters and plug them into some very common math formulas. I don't know why this upsets you so much that the results come out to be something you don't expect.

Being able to calculate interest and knowing what a mutual fund or Roth IRA is is a far cry from being a highly sought financial consultant/planner.

But that doesn't seem to be the case with the "soon to be millionaires" who come to this forum to insult the rest of us. I have to wonder why someone of such prominence would waste their time coming here and "associating" with people of obviously a far lesser mentality. That would be like Einstein going to an institution for the retarded and telling them how stupid they are. What would be the point?
Very few people here have actually called you stupid. In fact, most people here have only tried to correct your misconceptions.

In conclusion, I can only say that I have my doubts some of you people are as wealthy as you would want others to be believe and you are not the financial guru you think you are. Because if you were all these things, logically you would not even be here.
There is nothing "Logical" about your conclusion. You've drawn strange conclusions and biases on what rich people are or how they become rich.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
26,030
4,657
126
Wealthy people tend to associate with other people of wealth.
In other words, wealthy people are wealthy because they choose to be that way. That is all we are saying. Even a technician can become wealthy with the right attitude. $5/hr is all it takes of savings to easilly become a millionaire. But if you have the attitude that it can't be done, an attitude that you shouldn't invest in stocks, then of course you won't become one.
Now it occurred to me that so many people here, judging by the things they say, are nothing less than a full fledged financial whiz. Logically then, it would stand to reason these same people must be well on their way to becoming millionaires, and perhaps even billionaires.
Actually, many of us are well on our way. You are on a technical computer forum frequented mostly by the young, bright, knowledgeable, promissing, and hard working. Some people here are teens and you should take their advice with the proper skepticism. But even teens can be correct sometimes, so you should never just ignore them. Some people here are successful business men. You'd be wise to listen to those who have made it big. Heck, even I have sold off a business startup. But, most of us are just out of college in fields which do earn decent money. Many engineers, many finance people, many entrepreneurs. We often are well above the median wage and often are well on our way to being millionaires.
I would think anyone who is so incredibly intelligent in the art of finance so as to be able to take a person with little more than a minimum wage paying job and turning that person into a millionaire, would be someone highly sought after to advise the government, to head up a financial institution on Wall Street, or at the very least to be a professor at some ivy league university. But that doesn't seem to be the case with the "soon to be millionaires" who come to this forum to insult the rest of us...What would be the point?.
Some of us do work at universities (like me), some of us are in financial institutions, some of us have made it big. What is the point? Many of us enjoy coming here. Many professionals have jobs that come in spurts and have a minute here or there with nothing else to do. I do computer modelling and programming. When I run a computational fluid dynamics simulation, I have 10 minutes of work setting it up and then I have to wait at least 2 minutes for a result. When I'm uploading a program to an invention, again I have about 2 minutes to wait. There are only so many productive things I can do in under 2 minutes. So, I read a post on a forum. Sometimes I answer a post, but it usually comes in hours later as I only have 2 minutes at a time to write. Others of us have clients that come in sporadically and have nothing to do in between. Should we just turn on the TV instead?

Plus, I don't see much insulting here in this thread. What I see are honest discussions about mathematical facts. You are retired, so it may be a bit late for you to amass a great weath. But it isn't impossible to maximize what you have now. We'd be glad to help if you are willing to come in here with an honest discussion.

If you had done nothing but invest in a S&P 500 tracking index, you'd get 10.8% return on average in the last 35 years. That includes the big recent recession, massive inflation years in the 1970s, and the last decade with little to no stock market price gains. Someone who put in $10k/year ($5 per hour of working) into a S&P tracking fund (like VFINX) for the last 35 years would have $3.26 million today. I'll even be willing to cut that in half since they aren't likely to have had $5/hr available to invest back in the 1970s. But still that would make that person who invests just a little at a time a millionaire. That S&P index (or many similar ones) are just about the easiest investment possible. And millionaire status could have been many of your retired friends and/or family. Even the ones who lost big in 2008 would have more money today than before the recession if they didn't sell out. That is because the stocks are up from 2008 AND they still pay about 5% dividends per year even if the stock prices don't increase.
 
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JimW1949

Senior member
Mar 22, 2011
244
0
0
Well, at least I now know how stupid I am and how intelligent everyone else is. I want to thank all the people who have set me straight on this. I never knew that my whole life has been filled with misconceptions. One thing though, please let me know the name and address of one of these people who have saved $5 per hour and is now a millionaire. I would like to meet that person and shake their hand.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
26,030
4,657
126
One thing though, please let me know the name and address of one of these people who have saved $5 per hour and is now a millionaire. I would like to meet that person and shake their hand.
Click the link: There are news stories like this everywhere. Many people of low wages end up being millionaires just by saving about $5/hr. That was just the first Google link that appeared. You may find it weird to shake her hand though since she died 3 years ago.
 

Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,286
145
106
Well, at least I now know how stupid I am and how intelligent everyone else is. I want to thank all the people who have set me straight on this. I never knew that my whole life has been filled with misconceptions. One thing though, please let me know the name and address of one of these people who have saved $5 per hour and is now a millionaire. I would like to meet that person and shake their hand.

Stop being an ass. Just because you are old doesn't mean that you are right about everything. Man, this is what I hate about older people. Whenever they are wrong about something they take it as a personal insult. (I'm not calling you stupid, I'm calling you an ass because you think everyone is calling you stupid.)
 

Stuxnet

Diamond Member
Jun 16, 2005
8,392
1
0
Stop being an ass. Just because you are old doesn't mean that you are right about everything. Man, this is what I hate about older people. Whenever they are wrong about something they take it as a personal insult. (I'm not calling you stupid, I'm calling you an ass because you think everyone is calling you stupid.)

This x 100
 

ShawnD1

Lifer
May 24, 2003
15,987
2
81
Now it occurred to me that so many people here, judging by the things they say, are nothing less than a full fledged financial whiz. Logically then, it would stand to reason these same people must be well on their way to becoming millionaires, and perhaps even billionaires. So I have to wonder why it is that someone with such vast knowledge and wealth would bother to come to this forum and tell others how stupid they are? Why would someone with such wealth and obvious "way above average" abilities, waste their valuable time frequenting a forum and insulting others?

The people who are best at handling money are the people who have shitty jobs but always keep their head above water. If you want to know how to handle money, ask a single mother. They'll tell you how to get a deal on things like pencils or save $1 on milk. That's how they stay out of debt when they work at Safeway and raise 2 kids ;)
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,569
3,762
126
Well, at least I now know how stupid I am and how intelligent everyone else is. I want to thank all the people who have set me straight on this. I never knew that my whole life has been filled with misconceptions. One thing though, please let me know the name and address of one of these people who have saved $5 per hour and is now a millionaire. I would like to meet that person and shake their hand.

:hmm: I see you are pretty new and are retired so perhaps you are not used to online communities like this one. Maybe it is harsher than what you are used to but from where I stand this was pretty mild. (Poke your head into a few P&N threads if you don't believe me)

One thing for sure - if you state a claim you can be damn sure someone is going to do the leg work to verify it - whether it is a realistic situation or not. TBH I have learned a lot because of this
 
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JackBurton

Lifer
Jul 18, 2000
15,993
14
81
The people who are best at handling money are the people who have shitty jobs but always keep their head above water. If you want to know how to handle money, ask a single mother. They'll tell you how to get a deal on things like pencils or save $1 on milk. That's how they stay out of debt when they work at Safeway and raise 2 kids ;)


Oooo, I have another money saving tip, don't have kids.
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,352
1,861
126
lol at comparing people with 75K to Warren buffet.

The only people who make 75K who could be considered "rich" are those who make 75K in capital gains every year, but don't have to work .... as that means they most likely have several million in assets....