Another way the rich get richer

Jul 10, 2007
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Gotta love misleading titles.
Should be renamed 'Smart people are also smarter with money'.

http://lifeinc.today.com/_news/2011/05/20/6685222-another-way-the-rich-get-richer-shopping-savvy

Apparently, Warren Buffett's thrifty billionaire ways extend to other high earners as well.

A new survey of online shopping habits finds that people with annual household incomes of $75,000 and above are more likely to bargain shop online than their lower-earning counterparts.

The study was conducted by Synovate eNation on behalf of Steelhouse, which helps companies with online marketing strategies.

The survey found that 37 percent of the high earners check out coupon sites, compared with 24 percent of those who make less than $25,000 a year.

Nearly one-third of the highest earners said they buy only when there's a discount, about the same amount who said they buy only when there's free shipping. By comparison, only about one-fourth of the lowest earners said they did those things.

In general, as household income went up, so did the percentage of respondents who said they use those bargain shopping tactics.

The wealthier respondents were also more likely to read product reviews and to buy premium brands, according to the survey.

Buffett, among the world's wealthiest people, is known for his modest spending habits, including the fact that he still owns the same Omaha, Neb., home he bought in 1958 (although he also has a house in Laguna Beach, Calif.).

The poll was based on an online survey of 1,000 adult U.S. shoppers, and had a margin of error of three percentage points.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
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With the exception of groceries, I do most of my shopping online. All of my Christmas shopping was done online. I just did an order through Kohl's with 30% and Free Shipping online. Saved the gas money.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,428
6,273
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didn't realize that a household income of over $75k is considered "rich" now a days...
 

spacejamz

Lifer
Mar 31, 2003
10,921
1,570
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didn't realize that a household income of over $75k is considered "rich" now a days...

those people who don't pay any federal income tax but can sit at home and watch their blu rays on their big screen TV's probably think so...
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,691
4,211
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didn't realize that a household income of over $75k is considered "rich" now a days...
It is well above the median household income. Although, I too think $75k is a bit low for that definition. That said, the survey called it "highest income bracket" in their survey not "rich".

This survey looks like something that is ripe for misinterpretation however.
1) It doesn't appear very scientific at all, it isn't a peer reviewed publication for example.

2) The margin of error is supposedly +-3% and they say the highest income bracket requires discounts 32% of the time and that overall the percent is 28%. But lets apply the margin of error. The highest bracket is most likely between 29% and 35%. The average is most likely between 25% and 31%. Notice the overlap? That means that there is a chance that the highest income bracket bargain shops LESS online from this study. Yet people misinterpret it to say the opposite is definitely true (it may be true, but the study doesn't show it).

3) The survey does say that the highest income bracket tends to buy premium items and it is those premium items that they bargain shop for. Those are the same items that often go on sale. Sorry, but some poor family scraping by isn't going to do much comparison shopping for luxury goods online (if they have a computer at all). Nor do the poor have much time to wait weeks/months for a bargain as they are ususally buying necessities.
 
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dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,691
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I can picture Buffet going into chipotle on Halloween wearing a foil costume to get his cheap burrito :p.
I haven't heard of him eating burritos. He really just wants a hamburger every day (even on Thanksgiving). The cheapest crappiest quality hamburgers. I'd assume the salsas at Chipotle are too much vegetable for him as he won't eat veggies very often.
 

TheVrolok

Lifer
Dec 11, 2000
24,254
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Paying retail (frequently) is for "suckers." Obviously there are things you need right away, or that never go on sale, but doing "usual" shopping at retail prices is easily avoidable.
 

JimW1949

Senior member
Mar 22, 2011
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Exactly. You can become wealthy by having a high income OR by spending less than your income. Either way works quite well.
I don't think spending less of your income can make you rich. If you earn $10 per hour and even if you could somehow manage to save half of your income and put it into an interest bearing account, you would never live long enough to have enough money to be considered wealthy.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,691
4,211
126
I don't think spending less of your income can make you rich. If you earn $10 per hour and even if you could somehow manage to save half of your income and put it into an interest bearing account, you would never live long enough to have enough money to be considered wealthy.
Suppose someone earned $10/hour and had raises which are equivalent to inflation. Suppose that person saved half of the income for life. That person would be a millionare (inflation adjusted) in 29 years if the investments returned 7% after inflation (that is what historical investments have returned). If that person started work at age 16 (dropped out of school), then he'd be a millionare by the age of 45. All by earning the equivalent of $10/hour.

If the investments only returned 5% after inflation, then it'll take him until the age of 51.

Even if the investmetns only returned 3% after inflation, then he'd still be a millionarie before retirement. And I'm talking inflation adjusted millionare. When he turns 61 he'd have $4.56 million which is equivalent to $1 million today.

Think of it this way. A 2-person household both making minimum wage could theroretically do it if they could control spending sufficiently. They'd have to live off of $20,000 a year and save the rest, which is doable in many locations around the country, but hard.

Although, having $1 million in liquid assets might not be wealthy on ATOT.
 
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Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
10,283
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I don't think spending less of your income can make you rich. If you earn $10 per hour and even if you could somehow manage to save half of your income and put it into an interest bearing account, you would never live long enough to have enough money to be considered wealthy.

If you saved half of it, that would calculate to $10400 saved. The maximum investment for a Roth IRA per year is 5000. So every year, you could invest 5000 dollars, tax free, which puts you into a lower tax bracket resulting in bigger tax refunds from the government.

Now, assuming that you only ever invested in a Roth IRA, and assuming a modest 5% interest, you end up with $587,922.63

That is tax free money by (assuming you started at 20) by the age of 60 assuming that Roth IRAs never have an increase on the maximum and that you never ever have an income increase.

Maybe you wouldn't become a billionaire, but a millionaire is certainly in the grasp of pretty much everyone.
 

JimW1949

Senior member
Mar 22, 2011
244
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Suppose someone earned $10/hour and had raises which are equivalent to inflation. Suppose that person saved half of the income for life. That person would be a millionaire (inflation adjusted) in 29 years if the investments returned 7% after inflation (that is what historical investments have returned). If that person started work at age 16 (dropped out of school), then he'd be a millionaire by the age of 45. All by earning the equivalent of $10/hour.

If the investments only returned 5% after inflation, then it'll take him until the age of 51.

Even if the investments only returned 3% after inflation, then he'd still be a millionaire before retirement. And I'm talking inflation adjusted millionaire. When he turns 61 he'd have $4.56 million which is equivalent to $1 million today.

Think of it this way. A 2-person household both making minimum wage could theoretically do it if they could control spending sufficiently. They'd have to live off of $20,000 a year and save the rest, which is doable in many locations around the country, but hard.

Although, having $1 million in liquid assets might not be wealthy on ATOT.
No offense, but I don't buy your argument for one second. First of all, a person making $10 per hour could not afford to save half of his/her income. But that aside, where can someone earn 7 percent, or 5 percent, or even 3 percent for that matter, these days?

About the only place that could be done is the stock market, and we already know how easily that can turn into a nightmare and you can lose your shirt.

There are certain investments that can have a pretty high rate of return, but I certainly would not recommend someone with a very limited amount of income getting involved with some type of "risky" money making scheme.

Certificates of Deposit (CD's) are paying less that 2 percent right now, and have been that way for some time. I have no idea when they will start paying a better rate of interest, could be years for all I know. Additionally, as inflation eats up at least part of the gains, depending on where the money is invested, whatever gains there are may be taxed.

Not trying to be a jerk here, but I have no idea where someone with a few dollars can invest and make anywhere near that high of an interest rate. If you have a way of doing it then I would suggest that you start an investment company because you could earn a fortune helping others make money.
 

bignateyk

Lifer
Apr 22, 2002
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I wonder if buffet buys and sells on craigslist? I bet he's a craigslist lowballer.
 
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Cogman

Lifer
Sep 19, 2000
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135
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No offense, but I don't buy your argument for one second. First of all, a person making $10 per hour could not afford to save half of his/her income. But that aside, where can someone earn 7 percent, or 5 percent, or even 3 percent for that matter, these days?
You are the one that set the premise of "if they could save half their money".

As for a place where you can make 5->7% interest...

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/vanguard/all?sort=type&sortorder=asc

Of course, the higher the interest the higher the risk of failure.


About the only place that could be done is the stock market, and we already know how easily that can turn into a nightmare and you can lose your shirt.
Yep, You can minimize that risk at the cost of lower returns. Life is full of risks.

There are certain investments that can have a pretty high rate of return, but I certainly would not recommend someone with a very limited amount of income getting involved with some type of "risky" money making scheme.

Certificates of Deposit (CD's) are paying less that 2 percent right now, and have been that way for some time. I have no idea when they will start paying a better rate of interest, could be years for all I know. Additionally, as inflation eats up at least part of the gains, depending on where the money is invested, whatever gains there are may be taxed.
Roth IRA which can be entirely Bond based if you like.

Not trying to be a jerk here, but I have no idea where someone with a few dollars can invest and make anywhere near that high of an interest rate. If you have a way of doing it then I would suggest that you start an investment company because you could earn a fortune helping others make money.
Mutual funds have been around for a long time and can be pretty safe. They have rates that have been mentioned here. Generally, the lower the interest rate, the lower the risk. That is how life is. High risk = high returns.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,691
4,211
126
No offense, but I don't buy your argument for one second.
1) Read Cogman's response.

2) I didn't say it was easy. I just said it is mathematically possible with the numbers I was given. My wife and I lived for 5 years off that type of salary during school and didn't struggle that much to save a bit. A much better example would be to search for the news that comes out every few months of a teacher who realized he/she was a multimillionare simply by saving a bit each month. Spending less than you earn is almost always possible. And even $5/hour savings will add up.

3) Where do you earn that? Mutual funds. They returned 30+% over the last year. They will go up and down, but they historically will return money at a good rate. If you are young, CDs or similar "safe" investments are about the worst advice you could give.

4) I don't need to start an investment company. It has already been done. ING will let you buy mutual funds with just a few dollars per month with Sharebuilder. Note: due to fees, I wouldn't start it until you have $1000, but that wouldn't take long if you save $5/hour.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
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I haven't heard of him eating burritos. He really just wants a hamburger every day (even on Thanksgiving). The cheapest crappiest quality hamburgers. I'd assume the salsas at Chipotle are too much vegetable for him as he won't eat veggies very often.


It helps that he has a lifetime free burger card from McDonalds. He showed it on one of his CNBC interviews.
 

MarkXIX

Platinum Member
Jan 3, 2010
2,642
1
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I've gotten progressively "cheaper" as my income has risen too. My family remarks about it all the time, but you have to try to keep what you earn.

I think its a matter of reaching a point where you've have what you NEED in life, therefore you can be more selective with what you WANT.
 

blinblue

Senior member
Jul 7, 2006
889
0
76
No offense, but I don't buy your argument for one second. First of all, a person making $10 per hour could not afford to save half of his/her income. But that aside, where can someone earn 7 percent, or 5 percent, or even 3 percent for that matter, these days?

About the only place that could be done is the stock market, and we already know how easily that can turn into a nightmare and you can lose your shirt.

There are certain investments that can have a pretty high rate of return, but I certainly would not recommend someone with a very limited amount of income getting involved with some type of "risky" money making scheme.

Certificates of Deposit (CD's) are paying less that 2 percent right now, and have been that way for some time. I have no idea when they will start paying a better rate of interest, could be years for all I know. Additionally, as inflation eats up at least part of the gains, depending on where the money is invested, whatever gains there are may be taxed.

Not trying to be a jerk here, but I have no idea where someone with a few dollars can invest and make anywhere near that high of an interest rate. If you have a way of doing it then I would suggest that you start an investment company because you could earn a fortune helping others make money.

Lets take an example.
Husband, wife and 1 kid. Husband works the $10/hour job, 40 hours a week, every week and lives in Illinois, wife stays at home with the kid. In Illinois he would receive $233 (more or less, this number from a quick and dirty online calculator from the state) for food a month, he would also qualify for Medicaid. I'm not sure exactly if he would qualify for reimbursement for AC/Heat.

Income is:
$1600/month from job
$233/month for food from state
$4850/year = $404/month from federal government as a tax credit for having kids and basically no money
Total:
$2237/month

Bare essentials:
$500/month rent
$120/month for utilities on average (got that number from my personal average of gas, electricity, sewer, water, and garbage)
$233/month on food (won't be eating great, but certainly can be done)
$30/month in clothing (bought from Goodwill/Salvation army. Though they would be so poor I'm sure getting donations would be possible. So could be $0/month, but lets just stick with $30/month)
$100/month for misc. child costs

Total: $983/month
Remaining: 2237-853=$1254/month

Pretty much essentials:
$2000 paid for beater car that lasts, for the sake of argument, 3 years before a new beater is needed.
$2000/36 months = $55/month

$100/month in gas
$40/month in insurance
$40/month for maintenance

$10/month for cell phone service (or likely $0/month with something like SafeLink Wireless)
$20/month for DSL internet
Total: $265/month
Remaining: 1254-265=$989


That invest half his income comes to $800/month, that leaves $189 to save each month to build an emergency fund.

Investing that $800/month into good mutual funds long term, will get about that 7% inflation adjusted amount
Check out some dates with
http://www.moneychimp.com/features/market_cagr.htm
If you invest long term (15+ years) there isn't a 15 year period in which you would lose money, with returns in the 5%-15% range usually.

So in short, its doable. Difficult (you would barely have any life at all), and you would be getting government assistance. But you could do it.

Edit: Forgot about the ROTH IRA tax credit which they would qualify for at that income level, which would give another $1000/year as a credit (so $83/month)
Double Edit: $2000/year as they are married on that income, so $166/month extra. That would pay for some fun on the side.
 
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