Another 'vaping is bad for you' article

[flexy]

Does chewing gum cause cancer?

I don't think the comparison is justified at all

YES IT IS.

Because chewing gum, candy etc. can (and often does!) AS WELL contain *known* carcinogens, just mentioning aspartame and whatever sweeteners, coloring and other chemicals which are often in gum (and many other things we consume(

Do you think that chewing gum with an artificial sweetener, food coloring etc. is "healthier" than vaping? If you say my comparison is not justified you would have to show that a) those ingredients in gum, candy etc. are not having any adverse health effects and b) those or similar ingredients in vape are "much more unsafe" as compared to when they are in, say, gum.

I am not blindly arguing because I have a bias as a vaper. I am saying this since the logic why chewing gum that contains sweeteners, artificial colors etc. should be "healthier" than vaping entirely eludes me!

 

[flexy]

your point was pointless! On some level anything anybody does can be considered harmful.....even taking a walk.....so keep trying to change the subject!!

Ah congratulations that you got this.

Yes indeed, "anything somebody does" can be considered harmful. I can go outside and probably get whiffs of carcinogens from car exhausts or air pollution. Yesterday I soldered my ear plugs, I am sure I also get some whiffs of "not so healthy" substances, it's known that soldering produces quite harmful fumes.

The point is...how much more dangerous is vaping compared to those "every-day-things" where we might consume carcinogens. Unless there is a clear (!!) study which shows that vaping delivers significant amounts of such carcinogens. The cited study in the OP unfortunately doesn't help at all with assessing the risk of vaping for reasons I already mentioned. (It seems clear that higher coil temps release ("vape") more liquid, nicotine and -aldehydes, but if those levels only become significant at, say, 50W it can mean that at lower temps, say when I vape at 10W those levels are insignificant...or not more significant than what we take in on harmful substances "in normal daily life". The study doesn't help me at all there to see clear)

I didn't change the subject *at all* unless you still didn't get my point.

 

[JulesMaximus]

YES IT IS.

Because chewing gum, candy etc. can (and often does!) AS WELL contain *known* carcinogens, just mentioning aspartame and whatever sweeteners, coloring and other chemicals which are often in gum (and many other things we consume(

Do you think that chewing gum with an artificial sweetener, food coloring etc. is "healthier" than vaping? If you say my comparison is not justified you would have to show that a) those ingredients in gum, candy etc. are not having any adverse health effects and b) those or similar ingredients in vape are "much more unsafe" as compared to when they are in, say, gum.

I am not blindly arguing because I have a bias as a vaper. I am saying this since the logic why chewing gum that contains sweeteners, artificial colors etc. should be "healthier" than vaping entirely eludes me!

Fact is you don't know how unhealthy vaping is. Nobody does. There simply haven't been any long term studies on the effects.

But hey, good luck with your addiction bro. :thumbsup:

 

[leper84]

This post was brought to you by the completely unbiased 'Conglomerate of eCig Manufacturers' group.

So shoot the messenger, completely ignore the message. Valuable post content here.

I think the article does a good job bringing up some great questions about the methodology of this study. Vaping cant be harmless or good for you, but compared to cigarettes its not the plague people make it out to be.

TBH I vape and am starting to hate it. Its becoming a pain in the ass and now that I'm lower on the nicotine levels I can't see justifying the monthly cost too much longer. To be fair it took me from 1 1/2-2 packs a day to 32mg/ml to 1.5mg/ml now.

 

[JSt0rm]

These are the same arguments people made when they found out smoking cigs was bad. Lol.

All 4 of my grandparents were dead by 65 from lung cancer. Smokers. All of them.

 

[flexy]

Fact is you don't know how unhealthy vaping is. Nobody does. There simply haven't been any long term studies on the effects.

But hey, good luck with your addiction bro. :thumbsup:

We have e-cigs since 2003. Those are 13 years.

I can have tests run on ingredients of CIGARETTE smoke, and rest assured, in a couple of days I would get a detailed list with all the carcinogens and other components listed that are contained in smoke.

Miraculously, after 13 years of e-cigs "we don't know how unhealthy it is". Now explain this to me.

Obviously it seems "so incredibly difficult" to do the same tests as with tobacco smoke with e-cigs?

Or is it that "someone" (whoever that might be) is for thirteen long years waiting for the "bombshell test" on how incredibly harmful e-cigs are, but "sadly", in this more than a decade, such a report has not yet been made.

Also....you and other "pissed off people" who seem to merely take offense on the fact that someone vapes...you think that "we don't know" is a sufficient reason for bans and demonizing? Yeah, let's just ban vaping "because we don't know"....because the alternative, that vapers (ie: ex smokers) return to actual cigarettes WHERE WE KNOW HOW HARMFUL THEY ARE is a better option??

Even the "we don't know" and "there are no conclusive studies about adverse health effects" SHOULD be reason enough to say that vaping is LIKELY/POSSIBLY a better alternative to smoking - if someone doesn't, they defy ANY common sense and it's clear those people have not even an interest that smokers have a (potentially, likely) safer alternative.

 

[flexy]

All 4 of my grandparents were dead by 65 from lung cancer. Smokers. All of them.

Yeah if they JUST had vaped instead....

Sorry.

 

[destrekor]

Fact is you don't know how unhealthy vaping is. Nobody does. There simply haven't been any long term studies on the effects.

But hey, good luck with your addiction bro. :thumbsup:

Vaping has been around a long enough time now for early vapers to produce long-term effects, and I haven't seen any yet.

Plus, it's actually fairly easy determine long-term deleterious effects, and most of these studies have not been using appropriate methodology. I mean, using machines to puff insane volumes at ridiculous temperatures, and using dry puffs as a standard? You can produce all the noxious elements you want to, but at the end of the day, when you start producing those in significant volume, you are going to stop puffing and check out the cause. When it tastes foul or like burning, you stop. And with enough time, you often can get the tiniest hint and realize it's time to address it before it becomes truly foul.

Yes, even at normal, reasonable levels, it may be producing the tiniest levels of some components. Half of this depends on your liquid mix (how much PG and VG), and the other components, well, the volumes are so ridiculously low at normal vaping habits, that the exposure level is no worse than environmental exposure to begin with.

You might double, triple, or even quadruple your expose over the baseline environmental exposure rates, but at the end of the day, these levels are still so ridiculously low that don't even come close to federal safety standards.

You can take that how you will - is anything more than environmental exposure unnecessary and too great a risk? That's a personal decision. It is more than what others will be exposed to, but it's far, far less than what anyone working in various industries are exposed to.

And that should be a strong point to consider, because most of these byproducts have been produced industrially to some extent for decades upon decades, either purposefully or as a byproduct. And the workers who are exposed to levels higher than even a heavy vaper on any given day, are still around, and I assume healthy, as there haven't been class action suits against the manufacturers for these products.

So shoot the messenger, completely ignore the message. Valuable post content here.

I think the article does a good job bringing up some great questions about the methodology of this study. Vaping cant be harmless or good for you, but compared to cigarettes its not the plague people make it out to be.

TBH I vape and am starting to hate it. Its becoming a pain in the ass and now that I'm lower on the nicotine levels I can't see justifying the monthly cost too much longer. To be fair it took me from 1 1/2-2 packs a day to 32mg/ml to 1.5mg/ml now.

32mg/ml? Holy shit that had to be harsh as hell!

 

[flexy]

TBH I vape and am starting to hate it. Its becoming a pain in the ass and now that I'm lower on the nicotine levels I can't see justifying the monthly cost too much longer. To be fair it took me from 1 1/2-2 packs a day to 32mg/ml to 1.5mg/ml now.

32mg/L is incredibly strong. I think the highest I ever vaped was 18mg, this was at the beginning. Mixing 6mg juices right now.

As for monthly costs..uhm...its SIGNIFICANTLY less than smoking.

I have a source for 100ml of RY4 aroma which costs €12, 500ml PG or VG costs €8 and a bottle of 200ml 24mg base costs like €20. This lasts FOREVER. With a Kayfun there is also no need to replace cartridges etc, you just make a new wick. Initial costs for clones/mods etc. are rather low.

It was a total pain in the ass with the first devices on the market years ago, and the old/popular EGO ecigs are still a pain in the ass...decent mods etc. make a huge difference, like a $40 istick etc. and a $25 clone.

 

[zinfamous]

real men only shove snuff up their noses. Wusses.

FTFY

FTFY x2.

as for vaping--stick to dry herbs, none of that oil or juice nonsense. :thumbsup:

oh, and weed. weed > tobacco.

 

[zinfamous]

yes and i have not touched a analog cig in 6 years. cant stand them. I look at smokers as you do vapers as "you stupid fuck, you just inhaled 7,000 chemicals and spent 6 bucks for the pleasure of killing yourself."

I make my own juice. it has PG, VG, 3mg nic, and food grade flavoring. no idea how one would get formaldehyde from those 4 things.

funny things happen when you reach the vapor point of certain molecules. Maybe it's been a while since chemistry class, but chemical change is real.

 

[JulesMaximus]

We have e-cigs since 2003. Those are 13 years.

I can have tests run on ingredients of CIGARETTE smoke, and rest assured, in a couple of days I would get a detailed list with all the carcinogens and other components listed that are contained in smoke.

Miraculously, after 13 years of e-cigs "we don't know how unhealthy it is". Now explain this to me.

Obviously it seems "so incredibly difficult" to do the same tests as with tobacco smoke with e-cigs?

Or is it that "someone" (whoever that might be) is for thirteen long years waiting for the "bombshell test" on how incredibly harmful e-cigs are, but "sadly", in this more than a decade, such a report has not yet been made.

Also....you and other "pissed off people" who seem to merely take offense on the fact that someone vapes...you think that "we don't know" is a sufficient reason for bans and demonizing? Yeah, let's just ban vaping "because we don't know"....because the alternative, that vapers (ie: ex smokers) return to actual cigarettes WHERE WE KNOW HOW HARMFUL THEY ARE is a better option??

Even the "we don't know" and "there are no conclusive studies about adverse health effects" SHOULD be reason enough to say that vaping is LIKELY/POSSIBLY a better alternative to smoking - if someone doesn't, they defy ANY common sense and it's clear those people have not even an interest that smokers have a (potentially, likely) safer alternative.

When the average lifespan of a person is 79 years, 13 years is absolutely nothing. Like I said, we have NO long term data on the adverse health affects of vaping.

So, while it MAY be better for you than smoking it definitely isn't a healthy habit. Just how unhealthy it is remains to be seen. I sure as shit wouldn't do it.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Why even do it at all? Use it to help you quit smoking and then give it up completely. Even if it is 100% healthy (which it isn't) it looks stupid and is a complete waste of money.

 

[KeithTalent]

obligatory

Hehehe.

KT

 

[MongGrel]

 

[desura]

I had some friends get into vaping. If you don't already smoke, I don't see the point of vaping. It's essentially inhaling candy.

 

[JEDIYoda]

We have e-cigs since 2003. Those are 13 years.

I can have tests run on ingredients of CIGARETTE smoke, and rest assured, in a couple of days I would get a detailed list with all the carcinogens and other components listed that are contained in smoke.

Miraculously, after 13 years of e-cigs "we don't know how unhealthy it is". Now explain this to me.

Obviously it seems "so incredibly difficult" to do the same tests as with tobacco smoke with e-cigs?

Or is it that "someone" (whoever that might be) is for thirteen long years waiting for the "bombshell test" on how incredibly harmful e-cigs are, but "sadly", in this more than a decade, such a report has not yet been made.

Also....you and other "pissed off people" who seem to merely take offense on the fact that someone vapes...you think that "we don't know" is a sufficient reason for bans and demonizing? Yeah, let's just ban vaping "because we don't know"....because the alternative, that vapers (ie: ex smokers) return to actual cigarettes WHERE WE KNOW HOW HARMFUL THEY ARE is a better option??

Even the "we don't know" and "there are no conclusive studies about adverse health effects" SHOULD be reason enough to say that vaping is LIKELY/POSSIBLY a better alternative to smoking - if someone doesn't, they defy ANY common sense and it's clear those people have not even an interest that smokers have a (potentially, likely) safer alternative.

Your point is outlandish and very nieve........same things were said about cigarettes for many years.....

 

[MongGrel]

Your point is outlandish and very nieve........same things were said about cigarettes for many years.....

 

[destrekor]

I had some friends get into vaping. If you don't already smoke, I don't see the point of vaping. It's essentially inhaling candy.

Not necessarily. Fruity sweet flavors, or dessert flavors, are definitely popular, but you don't have to use those.

And I agree, if you don't already smoke, it is best to not get into nicotine through vaping. I can see the desire, you always liked nicotine but never wanted to use other tobacco products regularly, so this seems like a safe way to do it. But, please don't. That's the wrong reason to pick up vaping, and is why there is so much FUD out there. It's where there are drastic regulations going into play next month, and worse yet to come (or already implemented locally).

Now, I don't smoke, save for the occasional cigar, and won't be giving those up. But I got into vaping because I let myself get back into using snus after quitting years ago. I needed a little help to stay alert while driving but didn't want caffeine to screw up my sleep later that night. And then just a little use became more use became back to where I was years ago. I had quit because I had always wanted to, but it wasn't because I really came to the conclusion to stop right then and there; rather, I had all four wisdom teeth removed and I was a mess, and I didn't want anything interfering with the healing process. I was doped up on Vicodin for 5 days straight, and already miserable, I figured, WTH, might as well just get it over with now.

But now I'm back, but I decided vaping would be a better alternative. Not that real Snus isn't safe, because it basically is, but there is that ever so slight increased risk for pancreatic cancer, which is basically the worst cancer to get. And it was messing with my mouth, and sure, it was unlikely to cause an oral cancer, but that wouldn't stop gum disease or screwing with the mucus membranes and saliva quality.

I don't plan to vape forever, but I don't really care to quit for the foreseeable future. Probably a year from now, at the earliest, so I can at least get my moneys worth for the vape gear, but hell, the gear has become a hobby more than just a means to an end. I enjoy building coils for my dripper. And I like my tanks too.

 

[WHAMPOM]

why are you even making an argument out of this? it's been said time and again and you are making a "ignorance and bliss" out of it. vaping is bad but less bad than smoking cigarettes. ok?

now you know so please stop pretending you don't every time there's a vaping thread.

Getting shot in the chest with a .38 is also less harmful then getting shot in the chest by a .45, so what is your point?

 

[smackababy]

Getting shot in the chest with a .38 is also less harmful then getting shot in the chest by a .45, so what is your point?

As it would be, if you're from the south Philippines, getting shot with a .38 ain't enough to stop you so John Browning has to invent a larger caliber auto loading pistol for military personnel and call it the M1911.

 

[Minerva]

Getting shot in the chest with a .38 is also less harmful then getting shot in the chest by a .45, so what is your point?

Wow I don't think I've seen such obtuse "thoughts" posted here even in OT in a while.

 

[leper84]

32mg/L is incredibly strong. I think the highest I ever vaped was 18mg, this was at the beginning. Mixing 6mg juices right now.

As for monthly costs..uhm...its SIGNIFICANTLY less than smoking.

32 is what it took to get me to quit, but that was also back in the days before sub-ohm so it didn't hit quite as hard.

It is way less than smoking, but once you add up the small stuff its still money per year I'd rather spend elsewhere.

$3 a week for coils is $156/year
$20 a week for a decent 50ml of juice is $1040
Plus add in you can get maybe a year out of a tank/mod/battery before they go to crap so that's another $150-200/ year.

So about $1,396 a year to vape without being a nerd about it and buying a bunch of extras. Way cheaper than $3,000-$4,000 for cigarettes. But how many toys can you buy a kid a year with an extra grand and a half? A crap-ton.

 

[OutHouse]

32 is what it took to get me to quit, but that was also back in the days before sub-ohm so it didn't hit quite as hard.

It is way less than smoking, but once you add up the small stuff its still money per year I'd rather spend elsewhere.

$3 a week for coils is $156/year
$20 a week for a decent 50ml of juice is $1040
Plus add in you can get maybe a year out of a tank/mod/battery before they go to crap so that's another $150-200/ year.

So about $1,396 a year to vape without being a nerd about it and buying a bunch of extras. Way cheaper than $3,000-$4,000 for cigarettes. But how many toys can you buy a kid a year with an extra grand and a half? A crap-ton.

if you are spending that much you are nerding out on it. ive had the same mod/tank/battery (Aspire Nautilus) for almost 2 years. i replace the 1.99 coil every couple of weeks and the 20ml bottle of juices i make i calculated cost me about 2 bucks. each bottle last me about a week.

buy your juice mix online. i get a 1 liter bottle of of 50/50 with 3mg nic from ecigexpress.com for $26.98 and the food grade favors for super cheap.

 

[MongGrel]

if you are spending that much you are nerding out on it. ive had the same mod/tank/battery (Aspire Nautilus) for almost 2 years. i replace the 1.99 coil every couple of weeks and the 20ml bottle of juices i make i calculated cost me about 2 bucks. each bottle last me about a week.

buy your juice mix online. i get a 1 liter bottle of of 50/50 with 3mg nic from ecigexpress.com for $26.98 and the food grade favors for super cheap.

Pretty much about the same here, I use my Nautilus on the Evic Supreme most of the time, have a mini Nautilus on a Spinner II and an Aspire Atlantis I use now and the for sub ohm occasionally on the EVIC.

The coils can mix up a bit as a few are interchangeable, but I use the Nautilus with a stainless tank on the EVIC most of the time, with upgraded coils.

You can get some pretty serious hits off a Mini-Nautilus with even an old Spinner II if you want to, I do not usually crank them up too high.

Still have a lot of 3.6 triple shots hanging out, so it isn't a necessity to huff it I guess.

I hadn't even put anything in here awhile I guess.

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