Another stimulus package: the only solution, my friend says?

[Zebo]

loliberals

LOL just one more try I promise it will work this time. Money used to produce nothing is a pointless waste of money. Or worse since it's done on debt and sent overseas it's just adding more shit to the pile.

 

[SammyJr]

The only solution is for people to be told NO.
No we are not going to bail you out
No we are not going to pay you for not having a job
No we are not going to feed you
No we are not going to give you a place to live because you spend too much
No we are not going to provide you a job because you cannot find one

The only way to change things is let people do without. The way it works right now is like trying to raise a child and give them everything they ask for all the time. What you get as an adult is what we have now. People that can't provide for themselves without complaining to the government to fix things for them. As long as you keep helping people out of their bad choices nothing will change.

People need to ask themselves what they would do if there was no government ?

This tough love towards the poor and the soon to be poor is going to accomplish what? Is it going to cause them to magically pull money and a job out of their ass and start spending?

How is creating and expanding a desperate poverty class going to make things better? How does that help you, as a member of the middle class?

 

[Cogman]

This tough love towards the poor and the soon to be poor is going to accomplish what? Is it going to cause them to magically pull money and a job out of their ass and start spending?

How is creating and expanding a desperate poverty class going to make things better? How does that help you, as a member of the middle class?

Who do you think pays the poors bills? the Government? The money comes from SOMEWHERE, and that is generally the Middle class up.

I know that there are some genuine people out there that really do need assistance. I get that. But for every person that really does need government assistance I could point to 10 that are societal leaches.

Just giving people money, I don't like. It encourages people to not care. Rather, "make work" is better then no work. Have them count the number of beans in a jar for their paycheck. Whatever. I would rather they put SOME effort into it beyond just showing up.

 

[Modelworks]

This tough love towards the poor and the soon to be poor is going to accomplish what? Is it going to cause them to magically pull money and a job out of their ass and start spending?

How is creating and expanding a desperate poverty class going to make things better? How does that help you, as a member of the middle class?

It makes people change and understand that they have to rely on themselves and not others to live. That their choices have consequences. Bailing out someone who made a poor choice on a loan teaches them nothing. If you are poor and have no job and the government is not going to give you money you have a couple choices. You can starve, beg, commit crimes to get money or work.

The last time I checked there are jobs just about everywhere. The problem is people are too good to take them. They have their pride and their standards and are above taking a lowly manual labor job. Instead they sit on unemployment hoping someone will call or that the government will announce they have a job.

I know a lot of people who were laid off and guess what they had to change their lifestyle. One sold his home, all but 1 car and moved him and his wife into a trailer park. He was an accountant and now works at a garden center.

People have lost sight on what life is about. If you are stressing yourself out on what you possess you are doing it wrong. There was a man in Kenya who was sitting on a stump laughing . He had no money, no home but a shack, he had a fire with some food cooking and little else. Yet he was sitting there watching some animals play and enjoying himself. How is it he can be happy and enjoy life but people in the USA can do nothing but complain ? The difference is he gets it. So many spend life preparing for the future that they completely ignore the present.

 

[BoberFett]

Most economists who don't work for rightwing think tanks agree that direct govt spending is most effective, while trickle down not so much.

Fail.

Government spending is just another form of trickle down.

 

[rudder]

All of the above: unemployment checks, and govt projects. What we are seeing instead is state governments cutting projects and laying people off. Federal government needs to give more money to the states to avert that, and start its own projects.

So layoffs are averted for 6 months or a year.... then what? more stimulus money to the states to keep these people working longer?

THE GOVERNMENT CANNOT CREATE JOBS. When businesses expand and grow... they need more workers. People get hired. Jobs are created.

How does the government spending $280,000 for one person to be employed for one year (likely the job holder will make a fraction of that money in salary) help? Plus that $280,000 for that job is taken from somewhere.

 

[Greenman]

How could anyone believe that spending borrowed money to hire more government employees is going to help anything? Government is the problem, not the answer.

 

[SammyJr]

It makes people change and understand that they have to rely on themselves and not others to live. That their choices have consequences. Bailing out someone who made a poor choice on a loan teaches them nothing. If you are poor and have no job and the government is not going to give you money you have a couple choices. You can starve, beg, commit crimes to get money or work.

The last time I checked there are jobs just about everywhere. The problem is people are too good to take them. They have their pride and their standards and are above taking a lowly manual labor job. Instead they sit on unemployment hoping someone will call or that the government will announce they have a job.

I know a lot of people who were laid off and guess what they had to change their lifestyle. One sold his home, all but 1 car and moved him and his wife into a trailer park. He was an accountant and now works at a garden center.

People have lost sight on what life is about. If you are stressing yourself out on what you possess you are doing it wrong. There was a man in Kenya who was sitting on a stump laughing . He had no money, no home but a shack, he had a fire with some food cooking and little else. Yet he was sitting there watching some animals play and enjoying himself. How is it he can be happy and enjoy life but people in the USA can do nothing but complain ? The difference is he gets it. So many spend life preparing for the future that they completely ignore the present.

Race to the bottom for all but the wealthy. Gotcha.

Its really sad that this is your vision for America - live in a trailer park or a shack or other slum and be happy while a few guys at the top have it all. Protip: You aren't going to be the guy at the top. Enjoy.

 

[SammyJr]

How could anyone believe that spending borrowed money to hire more government employees is going to help anything? Government is the problem, not the answer.

Spoken like a follower of the Free Trade religion. The problem is that the Government is no longer "We the People" and its just the wealthy running the show now. All you would do is remove a layer between the new aristocracy and the rest of us.

 

[SammyJr]

So layoffs are averted for 6 months or a year.... then what? more stimulus money to the states to keep these people working longer?

THE GOVERNMENT CANNOT CREATE JOBS. When businesses expand and grow... they need more workers. People get hired. Jobs are created.

How does the government spending $280,000 for one person to be employed for one year (likely the job holder will make a fraction of that money in salary) help? Plus that $280,000 for that job is taken from somewhere.

If the Middle Class is shrinking and the poor have no money, why are businesses going to expand and grow? If your base of customers is shrinking, what's the reason to expand?

 

[SammyJr]

Just giving people money, I don't like. It encourages people to not care. Rather, "make work" is better then no work. Have them count the number of beans in a jar for their paycheck. Whatever. I would rather they put SOME effort into it beyond just showing up.

I'd love to see "make work" programs. The problem is that the followers of the Free Trade religion believe that tax cuts and job creation in China will somehow fix the problems of the bottom 99% of Americans.

 

[Modelworks]

Race to the bottom for all but the wealthy. Gotcha.

Its really sad that this is your vision for America - live in a trailer park or a shack or other slum and be happy while a few guys at the top have it all. Protip: You aren't going to be the guy at the top. Enjoy.

You don't get it. You think wealthy people are happy and enjoy life more than someone who earns minimum wage and that is flawed logic and why this country is where it is now. You look down on people that live in a trailer park because it is beneath you , your too good to live in those places. Go visit people in a trailer park. How is it a grandpa can be playing with his grandson and be happy without money in the bank while a millionaire can do the same thing and be happy ? What is the common thing that is making them both happy, it isn't money.

My vision of America is people that work so they can afford what they need vs people that work so they can accumulate more and more stuff in the pursuit of happiness.

I have been the guy at the top, working my ass off to make money, I earned over $300K a year at one point, there is no happiness there. The only thing at the top is a hollow feeling inside that you keep trying to fill with more things you think you need to be happy.

 

[SammyJr]

You don't get it. You think wealthy people are happy and enjoy life more than someone who earns minimum wage and that is flawed logic and why this country is where it is now. You look down on people that live in a trailer park because it is beneath you , your too good to live in those places. Go visit people in a trailer park. How is it a grandpa can be playing with his grandson and be happy without money in the bank while a millionaire can do the same thing and be happy ? What is the common thing that is making them both happy, it isn't money.

I don't look down at people in a trailer park, but it isn't for me. I wouldn't be able to find happiness there or in a Kenyan slum. Everyone is different.

You seem to be of the opinion that we should gladly accept that we're headed to the bottom and that its our own fault if we don't like it.

Not to mention that even in your glorious trailer park America, money is still needed to buy/rent the trailer and pay lot fees. Fortunately, road kill from the glorious rich guy's Bentley is still free.

My vision of America is people that work so they can afford what they need vs people that work so they can accumulate more and more stuff in the pursuit of happiness.

Why can't we have both? But really, the path you laid out in your previous post, plus your unwillingness to disagree with the free trade religion means we'll have neither.

I have been the guy at the top, working my ass off to make money, I earned over $300K a year at one point, there is no happiness there. The only thing at the top is a hollow feeling inside that you keep trying to fill with more things you think you need to be happy.

$300k isn't the top, far from. The top is when you can go from company to company, laying off thousands of Americans, getting fired and taking home 9 figures in severance, then run for national public office. The top is when you can buy your way out of just about any problem. The top is when you can pay Congress to start a war for you. The top is when you can convince millions of unemployed Americans that their unemployment benefits are the problem.

 

[Modelworks]

I don't look down at people in a trailer park, but it isn't for me. I wouldn't be able to find happiness there or in a Kenyan slum. Everyone is different.

Enjoying life isn't about where you live or what you have. The USA is failing because people think that if they can only have more, do more then they will have a better life.

You seem to be of the opinion that we should gladly accept that we're headed to the bottom and that its our own fault if we don't like it.

It isn't about being on the bottom, top , rich or poor. People need to learn that as long they equate things with happiness they will never be happy. You lose your job. Can you do other work ? Is your family alive and well ? Can you work and make enough money to eat and have clothes and keep a roof over your family ? If so then everything after that is extra. It may be nice to have more but once you start making those extra things a priority over what really counts you fall into the spiral that is consuming people.

Last month a guy killed his whole family because he lost his job and the bank was taking his home. That is the result of the thinking that people have now. That their job, home, car is who they are.

Not to mention that even in your glorious trailer park America, money is still needed to buy/rent the trailer and pay lot fees.

Yes money is required to live . The problem is when people have to work every minute of the day, stress themselves out on careers, worry about retirement accounts, stocks, and get upset because they can't make the car payment for the 2010 car they bought and now can't afford. All because they want the 'good' life. There is nothing good about that kind of life.

Why can't we have both? But really, the path you laid out in your previous post, plus your unwillingness to disagree with the free trade religion means we'll have neither.

You can have what you need and more but very few people remain able to distinguish the difference between a need and a want.

 

[SammyJr]

Enjoying life isn't about where you live or what you have. The USA is failing because people think that if they can only have more, do more then they will have a better life.

Your opinion. I believe that people should be free and able to pursue happiness in anyway they choose, short of harming others. Have you achieved your dream of living in a trailer park?

It isn't about being on the bottom, top , rich or poor. People need to learn that as long they equate things with happiness they will never be happy. You lose your job. Can you do other work ? Is your family alive and well ? Can you work and make enough money to eat and have clothes and keep a roof over your family ? If so then everything after that is extra. It may be nice to have more but once you start making those extra things a priority over what really counts you fall into the spiral that is consuming people.

The problem is, people can't even achieve this level anymore due to the loss of living wage manufacturing jobs, yet you want to cut them down further.

Last month a guy killed his whole family because he lost his job and the bank was taking his home. That is the result of the thinking that people have now. That their job, home, car is who they are.

If we continue your race to the bottom, violence will become more common. If people can't pay to eat, they'll find other ways. And I don't think the rich guys kill enough racoons and cats on the highway to feed us all.

Yes money is required to live . The problem is when people have to work every minute of the day, stress themselves out on careers, worry about retirement accounts, stocks, and get upset because they can't make the car payment for the 2010 car they bought and now can't afford. All because they want the 'good' life. There is nothing good about that kind of life.

If you don't want to live this way, then don't.

You can have what you need and more but very few people remain able to distinguish the difference between a need and a want.

What's wrong with wanting more? What's wrong with demanding that our politicians serve Americans so that those who want to work harder can achieve something better than your slum dream?

 

[StageLeft]

I have been the guy at the top, working my ass off to make money, I earned over $300K a year at one point, there is no happiness there. The only thing at the top is a hollow feeling inside that you keep trying to fill with more things you think you need to be happy.

I believe this, too, and never had to be rich to believe it. I have little illusion that if I was stinking rich--even without working (i.e. lottery)--that I'd be meaningfully happier and more contented with life.

$300k isn't the top, far from. The top is when you can go from company to company, laying off thousands of Americans, getting fired and taking home 9 figures in severance, then run for national public office. The top is when you can buy your way out of just about any problem. The top is when you can pay Congress to start a war for you. The top is when you can convince millions of unemployed Americans that their unemployment benefits are the problem.

Not the top but it's pretty high. You're netting $15,000+ month after all your taxes, that buys a lot of crap.

Obviously I want more money as we all appear to do but I wholly agree with the sentiment that much of America has no idea what brings it meaning or relevance so it just strives for the simpleness of more money.

 

[Exterous]

Your opinion. I believe that people should be free and able to pursue happiness in anyway they choose, short of harming others. Have you achieved your dream of living in a trailer park?

He never said people couldn't persue happiness, just that he thinks (and I agree) that they tend to look in the wrong place for it

What's wrong with wanting more? What's wrong with demanding that our politicians serve Americans so that those who want to work harder can achieve something better than your slum dream?

God man - he never said he wanted a slum dream, only that people think they can't be happy without money. Nothing is wrong with wanting more but not being happy because you can't afford more can be very shortsighted

 

[sandorski]

Most everyone would like to be "Wealthy", aka not having to Work again without worry. Really though, talk of that is rather distracting from the Real Problem: Financial Security.

It was only a couple Generations ago when one would leave their Parents Home and could fully expect and receive a Well Paying Job, a Family, a House with a Yard, and a Car or 2. That was the "American Dream". Some still realize that Dream, but the numbers of People who do is getting fewer and fewer.

 

[SammyJr]

He never said people couldn't persue happiness, just that he thinks (and I agree) that they tend to look in the wrong place for it

God man - he never said he wanted a slum dream, only that people think they can't be happy without money. Nothing is wrong with wanting more but not being happy because you can't afford more can be very shortsighted

The "you don't need money to be happy" point has to be a new chapter in the Free Trade Bible. We all need to sacrifice for Free Trade and for the corporate good.

Yes, money doesn't bring happiness. But you know what else doesn't bring happiness? Losing your home. Living under a bridge. Having to repeatedly take public or charity assistance. People need money to pay the bills. Jobs or public assistance. Your choice.

 

[Bitek]

You don't get it. You think wealthy people are happy and enjoy life more than someone who earns minimum wage and that is flawed logic and why this country is where it is now. You look down on people ...
I have been the guy at the top, working my ass off to make money, I earned over $300K a year at one point, there is no happiness there. The only thing at the top is a hollow feeling inside that you keep trying to fill with more things you think you need to be happy.

Wow. Checking my Pop Psych app and it says: Projection.

Great you had an epiphany, but it doesn't make much of a compelling economic model. Turning America into a (3rd world) county where once skilled and highly educated professionals now work as low wage gardeners & ditch diggers who bicycle home to their trailer-park communes and sing kumbaya doesn't sound like much of a future. I'd love to see the GDP estimates on that.

My cousin owns a once thriving luxury landscaping business, and now only gets simple lawn cutting jobs for his much reduced workforce. He posted a job for a worker who also had a clean driver's licence on CL and had 150 applications in <4hrs. These applications were not just from a boatload of Mexicans either. He had all sorts of people from all types of backgrounds desperate for the job. He ended hiring a baby boomer former financial executive who had been laid off, out of work, and had much of his retirement savings wiped out in the crash and is now working for a fraction of his former salary.

He sees similar stories everyday as he travels around the city. No, there are not masses of jobs out there dying to be filled but for the lazy preferring handouts. If you know of all these jobs, post them up, start a website, as there are many many people I've seen desperate to get working again.

 

[werepossum]

LOL just one more try I promise it will work this time. Money used to produce nothing is a pointless waste of money. Or worse since it's done on debt and sent overseas it's just adding more shit to the pile.

Stimulus bills are merely a variant of the South Park Underpants Gnomes economic theory.
1. Huge spending
2. ?
3. Big recovery!

 

[sandorski]

Stimulus bills are merely a variant of sound economic theory.
1. Huge spending
2. Economic Activity
3. GDP maintenance until Private recovery!

fixed

 

[Bateluer]

Simple, let the tax cuts to the rich expire and up what they pay even more. The ones who don't like it can move to China.

You do know those tax cuts applied to everyone, right? The 'rich' got to keep more of their hard earned money because they made more money. 5% of 250K per year is more than 5% of 20K a year. Simple math.

To the OP, your friend is an idiot. No nation, no individual, no business in history has ever spent themselves out of debt. No, no, dig up stupid!

 

[sandorski]

You do know those tax cuts applied to everyone, right? The 'rich' got to keep more of their hard earned money because they made more money. 5% of 250K per year is more than 5% of 20K a year. Simple math.

To the OP, your friend is an idiot. No nation, no individual, no business in history has ever spent themselves out of debt. No, no, dig up stupid!

Good thing that's not what they're doing then.

 

[StageLeft]

It was only a couple Generations ago when one would leave their Parents Home and could fully expect and receive a Well Paying Job, a Family, a House with a Yard, and a Car or 2. That was the "American Dream". Some still realize that Dream, but the numbers of People who do is getting fewer and fewer.

Is this actually true or just a nice notion borne by sitcoms and nostalgia? I haven't checked on home ownership rates but I bet they are higher than they were 50 years ago.