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Another record month of gun sales in DEC

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monovillage said:
The story of Tony Martin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_(farmer)

I guess if they were just breaking in and stealing your stuff it might be rare. He is a bachelor though, maybe if they were assaulting his wife he could do something about it without being tossed in prison.
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Yeah exactly, the criminals / victims in that case weren't trying to kill him, he shot them because they were stealing, not a good enough reason IMO.
 
HAL9000 said:
Yeah exactly, the criminals / victims in that case weren't trying to kill him, he shot them because they were stealing, not a good enough reason IMO.
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I'm very glad that's your opinion, it's not mine. If he had a wife and she was being assaulted would that be enough reason for you?
 
Joepublic2 said:
During the half second intervals when I'm not turning your face into hamburger? I've also smoked some angel dust in my car before I knocked on your door so even if you do manage to fight through the pain and confusion and hit me with your bat and even manage to break one of my arms and a few of my ribs I don't feel it and continue to punch you with the other arm.

And admittedly this is quite statistically unlikely to happen to you but you see the point of this exercise, don't you?
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And if you have a gun and successfully trick him into believing you are the UPS guy, even if he has a gun in his back pocket he is likely toast. If you are hopped up on angeldust so gf is likely toast even if she has a gun too.
 
HAL9000 said:
Rationally? No.
Emotionally? Yes.
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Wait a sec, 5 thugs gang banging your wife while you watch and have the ability to stop them, which is sure to cause life long emotional harm along with the physical damage (potentially terminal if one has aids or something) isn't a rational reason to use deadly force?

If the same 5 thugs were running a train on YOU and I happened to walk into the ally would you want me to shoot them or just let them finish?
 
monovillage said:
We also have religious groups here in the States that feel the same way, i'm glad the rest of us aren't held to their religious precepts though.
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I'm an atheist.

Darwin333 said:
Wait a sec, 5 thugs gang banging your wife while you watch and have the ability to stop them, which is sure to cause life long emotional harm along with the physical damage (potentially terminal if one has aids or something) isn't a rational reason to use deadly force?
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Objectively, no. Obviously it's impossible to be objective when it's your spouse.

If the same 5 thugs were running a train on YOU and I happened to walk into the ally would you want me to shoot them or just let them finish?
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First you'll have to tell me what "running a train on" means.
 
HAL9000 said:
First you'll have to tell me what "running a train on" means.
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Men waiting in line to, in this case forcibly, fuck you. When one finishes the next person starts until they are all done. With that many people they can probably take multiple turns...
 
Darwin333 said:
Men waiting in line to, in this case forcibly, fuck you. When one finishes the next person starts until they are all done. With that many people they can probably take multiple turns...
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Well that's rude they should just ask.

In answer to your question, if we are in America (I assume as you have a gun) then I would hope that you would threaten them with it, perhaps a warning shot (after calling the police) in order to get them to disperse, possibly a "shoot to wound" type thing if you are a good shot. Emotionally I would want you to shoot them all in the head. Logically I would not.
 
HAL9000 said:
Well that's rude they should just ask.
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LOL.
In answer to your question, if we are in America (I assume as you have a gun) then I would hope that you would threaten them with it, perhaps a warning shot (after calling the police) in order to get them to disperse, possibly a "shoot to wound" type thing if you are a good shot. Emotionally I would want you to shoot them all in the head. Logically I would not.
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Thats not an option. Warning shots are huge no-nos, brandishing your weapon without intent to use it is a good way to get dead as is "shooting to wound".

Your options are rather limited, do I shoot to STOP (not intentionally kill but to STOP them which generally means center mass and does often lead to death) or do I let them finish/call the police?

We aren't all Spidey even though we might often say "kill" that is never the intent of any lawful gun owner. The intent is to use enough force to STOP the threat, if they survive then great because I really don't want someones life on my conscious. If they don't survive then so be it because I would much rather the bad guys life on my conscious than one of my loved ones.
 
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Darwin333 said:
Thats not an option. Warning shots are huge no-nos, brandishing your weapon without intent to use it is a good way to get dead as is "shooting to wound".

Your options are rather limited, do I shoot to STOP (not intentionally kill but to STOP them which generally means center mass and does often lead to death) or do I let them finish/call the police?

We aren't all Spidey even though we might often say "kill" that is never the intent of any lawful gun owner. The intent is to use enough force to STOP the threat, if they survive then great because I really don't want someones life on my conscious. If they don't survive then so be it because I would much rather the bad guys life on my conscious than one of my loved ones.
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I don't know it's up to you, you're the guy with the gun.
 
HAL9000 said:
I don't know it's up to you, you're the guy with the gun.
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Of course its ultimately up to me, we are being hypothetical though so I am asking what would you prefer I do should I walk up and find you in that situation.

Chances are that the rest run once I fired upon the first and I am not going to shoot anyone in the back so rationally is one potential death warranted to prevent them from doing that to you?
 
Darwin333 said:
Of course its ultimately up to me, we are being hypothetical though so I am asking what would you prefer I do should I walk up and find you in that situation.
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I've told you what I'd want you to do I would hope that you would threaten them with your gun, perhaps a warning shot (after calling the police) in order to get them to disperse, possibly a "shoot to wound" type thing if you are a good shot. Emotionally I would want you to shoot them all in the head. Logically I would not.

Chances are that the rest run once I fired upon the first and I am not going to shoot anyone in the back so rationally is one potential death warranted to prevent them from doing that to you?
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No of course not.
 
HAL9000 said:
Fair enough then everyone has a belief system so it's not the end of the world. Mine is based on logic and not on scripture, I'd call that an improvement.
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I'll disagree with that statement. Not using deadly force on someone that's assaulting your spouse is certainly not logical. Only a religious or moral precept would prevent someone from defending a spouse in that instance.
 
monovillage said:
I'll disagree with that statement. Not using deadly force on someone that's assaulting your spouse is certainly not logical. Only a religious or moral precept would prevent someone from defending a spouse in that instance.
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I highly doubt his "atheism" is the reason that he wouldn't defend his spouse and if was (insert religion) he would probably hold the same stance.
 
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