Another psychopath judge makes an insane activist ruling

[SammyJr]

Stem cell research will still be done - just not in America. It'll be done in overseas and they'll reap the benefits in new jobs, products, and treatments. We'll be good little consumers and pay a huge markup so that our Free Trade Gods get their cut.

This is just another step in America's decline from greatness.

 

[theeedude]

Stem cell research will still be done - just not in America. It'll be done in overseas and they'll reap the benefits in new jobs, products, and treatments. We'll be good little consumers and pay a huge markup so that our Free Trade Gods get their cut.

This is just another step in America's decline from greatness.

Every Republican written bill is.

 

[woolfe9999]

The judge's ruling is probably correct, but this law needs to be repealed. It'll be traigc if it isn't. Perhaps the dems should take up this issue right now in Congress since stem cell research is strongly supported by the American people.

- wolf

 

[theeedude]

The judge's ruling is probably correct, but this law needs to be repealed. It'll be traigc if it isn't. Perhaps the dems should take up this issue right now in Congress since stem cell research is strongly supported by the American people.

- wolf

Republicans will filibuster a repeal.

 

[Fear No Evil]

I don't see anybody advocating that they not be allowed to build their houses of worship on private property using private funds to build them.

You're right. They usually do things like wish for the death of said Christians as posted by at least one person in this thread in the past.

 

[Fear No Evil]

Actually it seems to be a good idea, let the Russians pay for the transportation while we get all the benefits of the research. We'll still be actively involved.

You don't think we'll be paying for it? Is Obama going to wave his magic wand and get some leprechauns to shit us some gold pots before each Russian launch?

 

[woolfe9999]

Republicans will filibuster a repeal.

Not successfully IMO. I'm betting at least a few republicans, and perhaps as many as 10, would not go along with a fillibuster on this issue, not this close to an election. Unlike healthcare reform, this issue plays well for the dems.

- wolf

 

[Darwin333]

Actually it seems to be a good idea, let the Russians pay for the transportation while we get all the benefits of the research. We'll still be actively involved.

Umm, they don't give us FREE rides so its more likely the other way around. We get to pay whatever the hell they tell us too or simply not be involved in the space station we mainly paid for. Is there anyone else that can currently get people to the space station?

 

[Darwin333]

Republicans will filibuster a repeal.

Oh, ok I guess the case is closed then. No reason to even bother trying, fuck it, next subject.

 

[LunarRay]

The eye of the person sees what they see through the bias located somewhere between their optic nerve and their mind. How else can our learned friends on the SCOTUS or in Congress see stuff so vastly different?
Is it wrong to see stuff as folks do? I think not!... I think it is the only way they can see and it is what we are all about. So long as the rights of the minority are held sacrosanct tyranny will not prevail...
In the case of the Embryo it is all to do with Life... and one faction seeks to protect that while the other seeks to diminish it... So??? What???

That a judge rules in accord with written law is not unusual... it is sorta their job. They are least subjected to the bias of their life belief... until they sit on SCOTUS where that IS the basis of their opinions... apparently...

 

[woolfe9999]

Looks like the administration will appeal this ruling:

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...8/obama-likely-to-appeal-stem-cell-decision/1

I personally think they should just go straight to the legislature to change this law and not waste valueable time in the courts.

- wolf

 

[chucky2]

Well, one faction seeks to protect what they believe to be life (but has not been proved), the other faction seeks to protect undisputed life (us real humans walking around) as they believe the embryo is not life as of yet.

Chuck

 

[Acanthus]

Actually it seems to be a good idea, let the Russians pay for the transportation while we get all the benefits of the research. We'll still be actively involved.

I'm not normally one concerned with military measures.

But how do you do military research in space without your own manned vehicles?

 

[Aegeon]

Well, one faction seeks to protect what they believe to be life (but has not been proved),
Chuck

Actually if you're talking about most Congressmen who have blocked embryonic stem cell research and many other individuals, they clearly are not doing so.

We're talking about massive numbers of surplus embryos created in fertility clinics which are definitely not going to be used and eventually destroyed when they are discarded, and those same Congressmen doing absolutely nothing whatsoever about this issue. They merely are ensuring that their destruction can't be used productively by preventing any government funding whatsoever of any researchers who make use of the destruction of the embryo which will absolutely happen regardless.

 

[shortylickens]

The fact you need to ask tells me you wouldn't know a troll from a truth teller.

Explain why, sure I will, like I'll explain why folk like sunlight.

Dont answer the question, good strategy. You can never lose with that.
:thumbsup:

 

[airdata]

Anybody who passes legislation to hold us back in any way should be out of a job. There are over 6 billion people on the planet. There is nothing morally wrong with willing donation.

 

[Patranus]

Here is an idea.....
If you want to profit from the treatments created via (embryonic) stem cell research you can get private backing. Nothing stopping you from doing that.

I also find it funny that the "progressives" are acting like this is a ban on all stem cell research, which it isn't.

The funny thing is, that world wide, the most promising research into cures using stem cells are using stem cells other than embryonic stem cells.

 

[chucky2]

Actually if you're talking about most Congressmen who have blocked embryonic stem cell research and many other individuals, they clearly are not doing so.

We're talking about massive numbers of surplus embryos created in fertility clinics which are definitely not going to be used and eventually destroyed when they are discarded, and those same Congressmen doing absolutely nothing whatsoever about this issue. They merely are ensuring that their destruction can't be used productively by preventing any government funding whatsoever of any researchers who make use of the destruction of the embryo which will absolutely happen regardless.

Yes, but that's not why they're voting the way they are. Large parts of their voting block believe that using embryo's for anything other than making babies is wrong, and as such, there is zero way politicians wanting those votes are going to vote for embrionic stem cell research.

It doesn't matter what true reality is...the voters aren't operating in it, they've got their own reality they've created for themselves.

Chuck

 

[Patranus]

Yes, but that's not why they're voting the way they are. Large parts of their voting block believe that using embryo's for anything other than making babies is wrong, and as such, there is zero way politicians wanting those votes are going to vote for embrionic stem cell research.

It doesn't matter what true reality is...the voters aren't operating in it, they've got their own reality they've created for themselves.

Chuck

But what is the point when there is no scientific basis to use embryonic stem cells over other sources of stem cells?

 

[Aegeon]

But what is the point when there is no scientific basis to use embryonic stem cells over other sources of stem cells?

But this is clearly nonsense and a falsehood.

While there are currently more adult stem cell treatments out there, this is primarily because such treatments take a long time to reach human stage trials and adult stem cell research has been a viable area of study for a considerably longer period. Embryonic Stem Cell research was also really compromised by Bush pulling federal funding the way it did, because companies like to avoid doing the early studies which tend to be done with government support and tend to focus on treatments potentially closer to FDA approval and being sold. (Under the Bush rules, if a research agency accidentally used a single glass beaker bought with federal funding for general embryonic stem cell research, they risked losing all federal funding in the future.)

While adult stem cells have been used for a variety of areas, there are others where embryonic stem cell research appears more promising. In particular, with regards to the treatment of paralysis, Geron has received FDA approval to begin initial human trials.
http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_15641176?nclick_check=1

While there are attempts to have adult stem cells manipulated to perfectly copy embryonic ones, its not yet clear if these will be fully successful in doing so entirely. In particular some of the current trials have run into additional cancer risks which is an obvious problem for any treatment for humans.

At best you can say we might not have any scientific need to continue pursuing embryonic stem cell research in the future, but you can't honestly say we know that right now. (The nature of research of this sort is you don't always know which approaches are going to be successful with regards to research in advance and actually have to conduct experiments to find out.)

 

[chucky2]

But what is the point when there is no scientific basis to use embryonic stem cells over other sources of stem cells?

When scientists, not politicians or religous dogma, have proven that so....which is no where remotely close to happening.

Until then, why limit the options?

Just doesn't make any logical sense......

Chuck

 

[hal2kilo]

Not successfully IMO. I'm betting at least a few republicans, and perhaps as many as 10, would not go along with a fillibuster on this issue, not this close to an election. Unlike healthcare reform, this issue plays well for the dems.

- wolf

You are woefully optimistic, especially this close to the election. Right wing extremism is in full tilt mode. Notice how warm, kind and accepting of all religious faiths and minorities the electorate is these days.

 

[SammyJr]

But what is the point when there is no scientific basis to use embryonic stem cells over other sources of stem cells?

How are you qualified to make that determination? Are you a scientist? If so, does your research involve stem cells or biology?

 

[SammyJr]

Here is an idea.....
If you want to profit from the treatments created via (embryonic) stem cell research you can get private backing. Nothing stopping you from doing that.

I also find it funny that the "progressives" are acting like this is a ban on all stem cell research, which it isn't.

The funny thing is, that world wide, the most promising research into cures using stem cells are using stem cells other than embryonic stem cells.

Basic research, like those conducted with stem cells, are rarely privately funded. That's because basic research is very expensive, often fails, and rarely produces a finished product. Stockholders don't like that. On the other hand, private companies are very happy to use the completed basic research to develop marketable products. Both are needed, unless cash can magically cure disease, like with Magic Johnson on South Park.

Medical research is a very effective synergy of public and private interests, much to the dismay of "cut all Government that isn't for the wars" types.

 

[werepossum]

But this is clearly nonsense and a falsehood.

While there are currently more adult stem cell treatments out there, this is primarily because such treatments take a long time to reach human stage trials and adult stem cell research has been a viable area of study for a considerably longer period. Embryonic Stem Cell research was also really compromised by Bush pulling federal funding the way it did, because companies like to avoid doing the early studies which tend to be done with government support and tend to focus on treatments potentially closer to FDA approval and being sold. (Under the Bush rules, if a research agency accidentally used a single glass beaker bought with federal funding for general embryonic stem cell research, they risked losing all federal funding in the future.)

While adult stem cells have been used for a variety of areas, there are others where embryonic stem cell research appears more promising. In particular, with regards to the treatment of paralysis, Geron has received FDA approval to begin initial human trials.
http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_15641176?nclick_check=1

While there are attempts to have adult stem cells manipulated to perfectly copy embryonic ones, its not yet clear if these will be fully successful in doing so entirely. In particular some of the current trials have run into additional cancer risks which is an obvious problem for any treatment for humans.

At best you can say we might not have any scientific need to continue pursuing embryonic stem cell research in the future, but you can't honestly say we know that right now. (The nature of research of this sort is you don't always know which approaches are going to be successful with regards to research in advance and actually have to conduct experiments to find out.)

There have been many areas where embryonic stem cells seemed to be more promising; none have yet panned out. Injecting someone with cells which are genetically of a different individual, much less cells which have already been activated for the purpose of producing a baby, seems to me to be a foolish thing on its surface, and to date clinical trials have fallen in line as the embryonic cells group and form a tumor (what one would expect to get growing an embryo without benefit of a womb.) Personally I think embryonic stem cells will be a dead end for treatments, although some breakthroughs in treating disorders without using embryonic stem cells may well result from the basic research.

That said, I'm not overly fond of laws allowing something but prohibiting federal money from being used for it, unless it's something frivolous. With our insane patent laws, corporations can expect to purchase the patents from universities' research programs, making the profits but allowing taxpayers to fund the research. Perhaps our corporations have become spoiled by this, or perhaps the lack of private money being poured into this field points to the experts not believing there will ever be economically viable results.