Another perspective on Reagan.

Freejack2

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2000
7,751
8
91
Got this in my e-mail today. It brings up some interesting points about his presidency...

--------

Collective Amnesia or Collective Alzheimer's:
America 'Remembers' Ronald Reagan

by
Paul Douglas Newman


To remember Ronald Reagan as one of the greatest Presidents of
the twentieth century, to replace FDR on the dime with Reagan's
profile as Republicans wish to do, we are being asked to forget
too much.

We are asked to forget Lebanon, where Reagan decided to "cut and
run" after hundreds of Marines perished when a suicide bomber
invaded their compound.

We are asked to forget the arms for hostages deal.

We are asked to forget El Salvador, where the right wing ARENA,
armed with Reagan money, Reagan weapons, and Reagan military
training from the School of the America's at Fort Benning,
Georgia slaughtered more than 80,000 civilians in the "War on
Communism."

We are asked to forget the Iran-Contra Scandal, an event that he
evidently "could not recall" in response to more than one hundred
questions during the Congressional hearings.

We are asked to forget the groundwork laid for nuclear
disarmament by Presidents Eisenhower, Kennedy, and Nixon.

We are asked to forget the Strategic Arms Limitations Treaties I
and II.

We are asked to forget the re-freezing of the Cold War following
the Nixon thaw, when Reagan bellicosely denounced the Soviets as
the "Evil Empire," and then joked on his weekly radio address
that our missiles were ready to launch.

We are asked to forget the silly invasion of Grenada following
the Lebanon disaster, and the reversal of goodwill gestures made
to the Caribbean made by previous administrations, including the
return of the Panama Canal.

We are asked to forget the Soviet Union's internal move to
Perestroika, a groundswell that occurred over decades resulting
in a generation of new Communists by 1985 who were not
manufactured by Reagan's bravado, but were products of the "Evil
Empire."

We are asked to forget that Reagan presided over the worst
recession since the Great Depression.

We are asked to forget the enormous cuts to social welfare
programs and the Veterans Administration, moves that led to such
an enormous rise in the homeless population, especially evident
on the streets of Washington, D.C., that even comedians felt that
they had to do something to stop the bleeding with "Comic
Relief."

We are asked to forget the policies that enriched agri-business
at the expense of small farmers, continuing the decline of the
family farm to the point that recording artists were the only
ones left to uphold the Populists' mantle with "Farm-Aid."

We are asked to forget that he slashed taxes for the wealthiest,
raised taxes on the poor, and then bailed out the corrupt Savings
and Loan industry at taxpayer expense.

We are asked to forget that his SEC presided over such a corrupt
and over-inflated stock market that the Dow saw the largest one-
day crash in its history, greater than in 1929.

We are asked to forget that Reagan's economic policies effected a
reversal in the trend toward greater distribution of wealth begun
by Progressive Republican, Democratic, and Socialist politicians
in the early twentieth centuries, and have led us to the greatest
concentration of wealth today since the days of Andrew Carnegie
and James Pierpont Morgan.

We are asked to forget the enormous and outrageous military
contracts, for which American taxpayers paid hundreds of dollars
for nuts, bolts, and toilet seats, and the nation saw defense-
spending rise to astronomical heights.

We are asked to forget the Reagan Administration's opposition to
the Civil Rights movement, their blocking of busing programs and
cuts to Head Start meant to bring equality of opportunity to
American education.

We are asked to forget that Reagan considered ketchup to be a
vegetable in federal school lunch programs.

We are asked to forget "government cheese."

We are asked to forget jelly beans, splitting wood, bad b-movies,
McCarthy-ite participation in Hollywood blacklisting.

We are asked to forget our history.

We are asked to forget, and forget, and forget.

And by the looks of the New York Times and Washington Post's
memorials to the "Great Communicator," it appears that what
historian Studs Terkel has referred to as "America's collective
amnesia" is still acute.

Perhaps it is more serious than that.

Perhaps we have a national case of Alzheimer's Disease.

Perhaps our ability to remember relatively recent events has
eroded, and our capacity for rational thought has diminished as
well.

Perhaps we are becoming a danger to ourselves and others.

Perhaps we need admittance into a managed care facility for
nations.

Perhaps we are "riding off into the sunset." How else do we
explain our descent into Bushism?: our quick repetition of past
economic and foreign policy blunders, our re-visitation of failed
policies to solve current problems, our persistent dementia that
results in trying the same things and expecting different
results? As of now, there is no cure for Alzheimer's Disease,
only management of the symptoms and provision of comfort until
death.

Hopefully Studs Terkel is right, and we've just suffered another
blow to the head from which the American people will recover, and
remember, and remember, and remember.


Paul Douglas Newman is Associate Professor of American History at
the University of Pittsburgh at Johnstown, PA
 

daniel1113

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2003
6,448
0
0
It's interesting alright... too bad it lacks any real truth. I would go down the list and discredit just about every point made by Mr. Newman, but I am tired, and to be honest, it doesn't matter.

It's a shame that some people feel the need to "bash" Reagan when it is a time to celebrate his life and mourn his death. But, that is what makes America great, and I have no doubt that Reagan would be the very first to agree.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: daniel1113
It's interesting alright... too bad it lacks any real truth. I would go down the list and discredit just about every point made by Mr. Newman, but I am tired, and to be honest, it doesn't matter.

It's a shame that some people feel the need to "bash" Reagan when it is a time to celebrate his life and mourn his death. But, that is what makes America great, and I have no doubt that Reagan would be the very first to agree.

Yep, it's definitely full of revisionist history. They've been trying to do this to Reagan for quite some time. Pretty sad really.

Anyway - yeah - Reagan would probably have laughed at this attempt to smear him. Too bad(for the author) most here in America are smarter than the author seems to think they are and see right through the BS.

CkG
 

digitalsm

Diamond Member
Jul 11, 2003
5,253
0
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: daniel1113
It's interesting alright... too bad it lacks any real truth. I would go down the list and discredit just about every point made by Mr. Newman, but I am tired, and to be honest, it doesn't matter.

It's a shame that some people feel the need to "bash" Reagan when it is a time to celebrate his life and mourn his death. But, that is what makes America great, and I have no doubt that Reagan would be the very first to agree.

Yep, it's definitely full of revisionist history. They've been trying to do this to Reagan for quite some time. Pretty sad really.

Anyway - yeah - Reagan would probably have laughed at this attempt to smear him. Too bad(for the author) most here in America are smarter than the author seems to think they are and see right through the BS.

CkG

The leftists from the 60's and 70's hate Reagan because he made them move more towards the center and they wont ever be able to move back towards the far left. Todays far left is nothing like the far left of the 60's and 70's. Im thankful of that.
 

Wheezer

Diamond Member
Nov 2, 1999
6,731
1
81
Originally posted by: bthorny
Shouldn't you guys be out burning books or something

See... comments like that just show how hypocritical lefties are.

Burning books in your opinion is bad..why? Could that not be construed as the precious "freedom of speech" that you hold so dear? you know.... the same one that you blanket yourself around when burning the flag.
 

Orsorum

Lifer
Dec 26, 2001
27,631
5
81
Originally posted by: Wheezer
Originally posted by: bthorny
Shouldn't you guys be out burning books or something

See... comments like that just show how hypocritical lefties are.

Burning books in your opinion is bad..why? Could that not be construed as the precious "freedom of speech" that you hold so dear? you know.... the same one that you blanket yourself around when burning the flag.

:roll:
 

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: daniel1113
It's interesting alright... too bad it lacks any real truth. I would go down the list and discredit just about every point made by Mr. Newman, but I am tired, and to be honest, it doesn't matter.

It's a shame that some people feel the need to "bash" Reagan when it is a time to celebrate his life and mourn his death. But, that is what makes America great, and I have no doubt that Reagan would be the very first to agree.

Yep, it's definitely full of revisionist history. They've been trying to do this to Reagan for quite some time. Pretty sad really.

Anyway - yeah - Reagan would probably have laughed at this attempt to smear him. Too bad(for the author) most here in America are smarter than the author seems to think they are and see right through the BS.

CkG
Yeah a lot of it is BS but not all
 

Jmman

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 1999
5,302
0
76
Originally posted by: digitalsm
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: daniel1113
It's interesting alright... too bad it lacks any real truth. I would go down the list and discredit just about every point made by Mr. Newman, but I am tired, and to be honest, it doesn't matter.

It's a shame that some people feel the need to "bash" Reagan when it is a time to celebrate his life and mourn his death. But, that is what makes America great, and I have no doubt that Reagan would be the very first to agree.

Yep, it's definitely full of revisionist history. They've been trying to do this to Reagan for quite some time. Pretty sad really.

Anyway - yeah - Reagan would probably have laughed at this attempt to smear him. Too bad(for the author) most here in America are smarter than the author seems to think they are and see right through the BS.

CkG

The leftists from the 60's and 70's hate Reagan because he made them move more towards the center and they wont ever be able to move back towards the far left. Todays far left is nothing like the far left of the 60's and 70's. Im thankful of that.


Yup, very true. I had a very revolutionary liberal proifessor that made us go to seminars from 60's era civil rights leaders and revolutionaries, and without exception every one credited Reagan as setting America back years. They hate Reagan like no other. If you want to look at the impact and legacy that Reagan had, all you have to do is look at the amount to people waiting for hours and hours just to pay their respects to him.......
 

eriqesque

Senior member
Jan 4, 2002
704
0
71
To the Original Poster
Original Said by R.W.R
"You must be really smart to believe something so stupid"
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Wow. Lots of attacks on the author, the poster, and "liberals", yet not one of you has the depth of conviction or the integrity to actually address the issues raised. Go figure.

Maybe the kids here only know of Reagan through the revisionist history of his flock. I remember the Reagan era well, however -- the OP is largely accurate.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
It's interesting alright... too bad it lacks any real truth. I would go down the list and discredit just about every point made by Mr. Newman, but I am tired, and to be honest, it doesn't matter.

Excellent example of the Right's favorite Limbaugh-esque method of denial- "I could refute that, but I won't bother...."

And to some extent, the "it doesn't matter" remark bears some truth, as the so-called "Liberal Media" is currently wrapping Reagan's memory in the shroud of Sainthood...

I like this one, partially because of the double edged nature of the humor- at once pointing out Reagan's own hypocrisy, and that of his supporters-

http://www.kirktoons.com/cartoons.html
 

Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
392
126
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
It's interesting alright... too bad it lacks any real truth. I would go down the list and discredit just about every point made by Mr. Newman, but I am tired, and to be honest, it doesn't matter.

Excellent example of the Right's favorite Limbaugh-esque method of denial- "I could refute that, but I won't bother...."

And to some extent, the "it doesn't matter" remark bears some truth, as the so-called "Liberal Media" is currently wrapping Reagan's memory in the shroud of Sainthood...
Much as they rushed to embrace the crusade against Iraq, only later acknowledging that they lost their objectivity. I think it was approriate for the media to be respectful of Reagan for the last week. I agree they went too far in airing every gushing claim.


I like this one, partially because of the double edged nature of the humor- at once pointing out Reagan's own hypocrisy, and that of his supporters-

http://www.kirktoons.com/cartoons.html
:laugh: That's great. I've already printed copies to share with a couple of my (good-natured) local Reagan worshippers.
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,505
3
81
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Wow. Lots of attacks on the author, the poster, and "liberals", yet not one of you has the depth of conviction or the integrity to actually address the issues raised. Go figure.

Maybe the kids here only know of Reagan through the revisionist history of his flock. I remember the Reagan era well, however -- the OP is largely accurate.

I agree, the OP fits my memory of RR really well.
I remember RR:
1. Trying to classify ketchup as a vegatable for kid's lunches,
2. The Iran-Contra arms deal the he signed for but somehow forgot about it. How he did not get impeached for breaking the law on this is still beyond me.
3. "welfare queens":
4. closing mental health hospitals, I think he called it communization of mental health care or something like that.

If the OP is wrong, prove it.
 

0roo0roo

No Lifer
Sep 21, 2002
64,795
84
91
Originally posted by: Bowfinger
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
It's interesting alright... too bad it lacks any real truth. I would go down the list and discredit just about every point made by Mr. Newman, but I am tired, and to be honest, it doesn't matter.

Excellent example of the Right's favorite Limbaugh-esque method of denial- "I could refute that, but I won't bother...."

And to some extent, the "it doesn't matter" remark bears some truth, as the so-called "Liberal Media" is currently wrapping Reagan's memory in the shroud of Sainthood...
Much as they rushed to embrace the crusade against Iraq, only later acknowledging that they lost their objectivity. I think it was approriate for the media to be respectful of Reagan for the last week. I agree they went too far in airing every gushing claim.


I like this one, partially because of the double edged nature of the humor- at once pointing out Reagan's own hypocrisy, and that of his supporters-

http://www.kirktoons.com/cartoons.html
:laugh: That's great. I've already printed copies to share with a couple of my (good-natured) local Reagan worshippers.

nice comic link

and just remember, those marines put out to slaughter by reagan, did not even have loaded weapons to protect themselves, such was their policy.

and frankly, nothing can refute the fact that he bowed to terrorists against his own word, and then plainly lied about it. just like clinton, he went on the television and lied to americans, except his lie was far more dangerous. he showed terrorists that the us could indeed be bent to their will. his admin shredded key documents and he pardoned 6 of the defendants in the iran contra scandal as he left office. also, his "i didn't know" ignorance defence reminds me a little of....enron
 

sMiLeYz

Platinum Member
Feb 3, 2003
2,696
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76
I mean if what the professor said was BS, someone please feel free to debunk it.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: sMiLeYz
I mean if what the professor said was BS, someone please feel free to debunk it.

Not saying he did not write it, but it is not on his web page yet. His web page has links to common dreams and air america, so he may very well of written it. But given that he has those links, it means it far less than a non biased historical review.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,764
6,770
126
Reagan and Bush have in common that affable brain dead aspect to their personality that made and make them perfect front men for the Mafia that put them in power. Because of the cheering sucker lemmings who worship superficiality no justice ever comes to that Mafia and the country slides further and further into international disgrace. Thanks to the fan boy dunces we're sticking broomsticks up Iraqi asses and calling it hazing. If you want to know what keeps people blind, it's guilt. You are the ugly American dressed up pretty in your American Flags. But what you really are is Traitors.