Another old machine needs new card thread

[Blazer7]

It has been quite a while since the last time I was looking for a new graphics board so I am out of the loop. The card is for the rig in my sig. My budget is up to the RX 480/ GTX 1060 level. The problem is that my board has legacy BIOS and most if not all of the 480/1060 cards won’t like that.

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

 

[whm1974]

You could ask the manufacturers if their cards support legacy BIOS systems. Good luck.

 

[Blazer7]

I am already considering this and I may go forth and contact ASUS as some of their graphics boards are to my liking and they sure know my board. However I am open to suggestions beyond the 480/1060 cards.

 

[Leyawiin]

Here's a thread I've found on the subject. Apparently someone with a legacy X58 motherboard (didn't specify which) had no issue with a Gigabyte GTX 1060. Someone else with an old legacy motherboard had no problem with a Galax GTX 1060.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/59jvm4/gtx_1060_legacy_bios_compatibility/

I think your best bet is to buy from a retailer that isn't a p.i.t.a. to do a return with - like Amazon. Newegg's GPUs are usually no refund and return for replacement only.

A little more digging had several people say that all current Nvidia cards have legacy BIOS support. Not sure if that's true or not.

 

[whm1974]

A little more digging had several people say that all current Nvidia cards have legacy BIOS support. Not sure if that's true or not.

Considering that a lot of high end old systems are still usable CPU wise, it wouldn't be a smart idea to release new cards only supporting UEFI motherboards.

 

[Blazer7]

Considering that a lot of high end old systems are still usable CPU wise, it wouldn't be a smart idea to release new cards only supporting UEFI motherboards.

That was what I thought too but after digging a bit I am not so sure. This looks more like a hit or miss thing and I can’t afford the later.

I think that the Sapphire R9 Fury Nitro 4GB (11247-03-40G) supports legacy BIOS. If it does then it is a candidate.

 

[whm1974]

You could also simply build a new computer so you wouldn't have this problem anymore.

 

[Valantar]

That was what I thought too but after digging a bit I am not so sure. This looks more like a hit or miss thing and I can’t afford the later.

I think that the Sapphire R9 Fury Nitro 4GB (11247-03-40G) supports legacy BIOS. If it does then it is a candidate.

My Asus Fury X supports legacy BIOS, at least. Runs with 0 problems on my Asus X48 board. The Sapphire is a custom board, so YMMV, but it's not impossible at least.

 

[Blazer7]

You could also simply build a new computer so you wouldn't have this problem anymore.

Or I could simply shoot myself in the foot. That would probably be less painful.

 

[Blazer7]

My Asus Fury X supports legacy BIOS, at least. Runs with 0 problems on my Asus X48 board. The Sapphire is a custom board, so YMMV, but it's not impossible at least.

Nice....

Sapphire used a switch for UEFI/BIOS support. It is present on their 380/390 series cards and from what I know it is present on the Furies. At least most of them.

 

[Valantar]

Nice....

Sapphire used a switch for UEFI/BIOS support. It is present on their 380/390 series cards and from what I know it is present on the Furies. At least most of them.

That might be true, but note that stock Fury (X) boards also have dual BIOSes, with an onboard switch. These are (from what I know) for having a backup/OC BIOS, not for legacy support). I never had to touch mine, so I might of course be wrong. But again, your candidate card is a custom third-party board, so they might have gone in a different direction.

Where do you plan to order the card from? What is their return policy like? If I were you (and it's possible) I'd order the card, try it out, and return it if it doesn't work. You won't get better performance at that price, given that your case and PSU can handle the heat/power draw.

 

[Blazer7]

The return policy is not favorable so I have to make sure before placing an order. On the good side my case and PSU will have no problem at all.
http://www.sapphiretech.com/productdetial.asp?pid=B962294E-9DBC-470E-A817-46EC0AA5B14A&lang=eng
Here are the specs for both the 11247-03 and 11247-04 SAPPHIRE NITRO Radeon R9 FURY 4G HBM cards

Performance wise the Fury is on par with the 480/1060 cards at least for now but I would favor any one of those because of TDP, RAM and driver support.

 

[IronWing]

Not sure if my motherboard is older or newer than yours but it's old by modern standards and I'm running a 1070 with no issues.

Motherboard: Asus P7P55D-E Pro
2 x PCIe 2.0 x16
3 x PCIe 2.0 x1
2 x PCI
Processor: i7 Quad Core 860@2.80 Ghz
RAM: 8GB
Win 10 Home

 

[Blazer7]

Thanks for the feedback. I am familiar with the P7P55D line of boards. If memory serves mine is about 2 years older (no SATA6/USB3 ports hence the ASUS U3S6 controller)

 

[Markfw]

I don't know what in the BIOS has to do with the video card that is a problem. I had a GTX 1080 running in a X58 platform, and right now, I have a GTX 1070 running on a socket 775 platform.

 

[Valantar]

I don't know what in the BIOS has to do with the video card that is a problem. I had a GTX 1080 running in a X58 platform, and right now, I have a GTX 1070 running on a socket 775 platform.

Some cards require an UEFI to boot, and are not recognized by "legacy" BIOSes.

 

[Markfw]

Some cards require an UEFI to boot, and are not recognized by "legacy" BIOSes.

I guess I have never seen that, is it an AMD limitation ? since the latest Nvidia card (My GTX 1070) is booting off of a 10 year old system with no UEFI

 

[Valantar]

I've never come across the problem myself (Fury X on S775), but I've read of various experiences.

 

[Blazer7]

I don't know what in the BIOS has to do with the video card that is a problem. I had a GTX 1080 running in a X58 platform, and right now, I have a GTX 1070 running on a socket 775 platform.

Model of board and card?

I guess I have never seen that, is it an AMD limitation ? since the latest Nvidia card (My GTX 1070) is booting off of a 10 year old system with no UEFI

I doubt that this is an AMD limitation but the majority of such issues I know of, are related to their RX series.

It is very interesting that Sapphire lists their 380/390/Fury cards as having dual BIOS supporting both legacy and UEFI but they list only UEFI for the RX series. It is possible that they dropped legacy compatibility.

 

[Markfw]

The motherboards are Gigabyte. P35-DQ6 for the socket 775 and UD3R (something like that) for the X58. Also they are in a Dell T3500 X58 platform, a Intel DXO-58, and AMD dual 6234 socket mobo, and others. The cards are all different MFG's, see sig for types. Ranging from an AMD 290, Nvidia 980 , 980TI,1070 and 2 1980's.

This whole issue seems odd to me with all of my experience in hardware for video cards, motherboards, CPU's and BIOS updates. I would love to hear about a bonifide documented problem, as this is the first I have heard of this issue.

Oh, and the cards are all EVGA, except the 290 is an XFX or something like that, and one Gigabyte 980.

 

[Markfw]

Some cards require an UEFI to boot, and are not recognized by "legacy" BIOSes.

OK, I did some research, and I still do not see what "dual-bios" has to do with legacy or UEFI. Here is an example:

"
EVGA is joining a number of other manufacturers and is also releasing a number of its graphics cards in versions with double-BIOS. Not only this, but three of its cards actually have three BIOSes rather than one (or two).

While users with fairly basic needs might not see the advantages, overclockers should definitely be interested in the feature. It allows you to have one BIOS set to stock settings as a failsafe, and use the secondary BIOS as an overclocking BIOS. It also allows you to experiment with installing custom BIOSes but without risking the card getting bricked due to a BIOS or flashing failure.

For the entire list of double-BIOS SKUs from EVGA, head to this list.
"

So it has nothing to do with UEFI, at least according to that.

 

[Ketchup]

I did a brief search on this "issue" and the only thing I found related to HP and other box builders, which makes sense, as they are very reluctant to release BIOS updates for all but the most severe compatibility or security issues.

If you have a board you bought, as a general rule, this isn't as much of a concern, as these manufacturers are mainly selling (for desktops anyway) to enthusiasts who will want to be able to upgrade down the road. And most of them are constantly releasing BIOS updates for newer CPUs, additional functions, more compatibility, and better performance.

 

[Markfw]

I did a brief search on this "issue" and the only thing I found related to HP and other box builders, which makes sense, as they are very reluctant to release BIOS updates for all but the most severe compatibility or security issues.

If you have a board you bought, as a general rule, this isn't as much of a concern, as these manufacturers are mainly selling (for desktops anyway) to enthusiasts who will want to be able to upgrade down the road. And most of them are constantly releasing BIOS updates for newer CPUs, additional functions, more compatibility, and better performance.

Well, that makes some sense. Except for example, my Dell T3500 X58 board has NOT had a bios update ever, and it works fine.

I really think this is an obscure issue.

 

[Ketchup]

Well, that makes some sense. Except for example, my Dell T3500 X58 board has NOT had a bios update ever, and it works fine.

I really think this is an obscure issue.

I agree. And I am not surprised at all you didn't have an issue, just saying that, of the few I found, none of them were coming from an "owner-built" system.

 

[VirtualLarry]

I think that this relates mostly to OEM rigs, and upgrade video cards, or at least, the cards from 2-3 years ago, that may not have had UEFI-compatible "GOP" BIOSes onboard.

See, the thing is, OEMs ship their UEFI Windows PCs (Windows 8 and onwards), with "Secure Boot" enabled. Sure, most of them let you disable it, but it's much more common on OEM branded rigs, than custom-built rigs.

And, in order for an add-on dGPU to function with a UEFI BIOS set to Secure Boot mode enabled, it HAS TO have a (UEFI) "GOP" (Graphics Output Protocol) -compatible BIOS installed. Or else, it won't work, or the machine just won't boot. At least, until you disable Secure Boot.

Edit: Thing is, most custom-built PCs / motherboards, that have UEFI, default to "CSM enabled" (compatablity support module, AKA legacy BIOS interface stuff). So ancient video cards, that don't support UEFI GOP, will work, as long as CSM is enabled. (Just not with Secure Boot enabled.) And newer cards, are GOP-enabled, so they'll work with UEFI BIOSes anyways.

And, hopefully, newer video cards have a bi-compatible BIOS, that works with both older non-UEFI mobo BIOSes, as well as UEFI GOP.