Another No-Knock Warrant "Success" Story

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: dNor

Originally posted by: jpeytonI have a digital scale (used for postage) in my office and a container of Ziploc plastic baggies in my kitchen. Should I fear for my life?

SPREAD 'EM, HOOLIGAN!

just a minute while i slip on these rubber gloves...

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: BigToque
How much did this swat team know about the guy or the situation before going in? I imagine all they knew was that they would be raiding a house of a suspected drug dealer at night that might possibly be armed. A guy pulls a gun (even though he dropped it), it does seem reasonable to start shooting at him.

If you lived in a less-than-perfect neighborhood, bought a gun for home defense, heard someone breaking into your home in the middle of the night, and you were not a drug dealer/user (and therefore not expecting a no-knock SWAT drug raid on your home), wouldn't it seem reasonable to grab your gun?

 

[zinfamous]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

http://www.reason.com/news/show/125538.html

holy crap! that is effed up.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: mugs
Why Do You Capitalize The First Letter Of Every Word?

Grasping at straws?

No, I Was Just Wondering.

Then again, I would too if I had no comment about the donut patrol's screwup.

You're Right, I Don't Have Any Comments About This Situation, Because I Haven't Read The Article. The Police Do Screw Up Sometimes. You Seem To Love It When They Do, Especially When Someone Is Seriously Injured Or Killed. I Guess Because It Gives You An Opportunity To Brush Off Your Same Old Overused Jokes?

 

[bignateyk]

I don't have a problem with no-knock warrants, and I don't have a problem with the right to defend your house without fear of prosecution...

...but in a place where one exists, the other should not.

 

[Agentbolt]

Originally posted by: RightIsWrong

Originally posted by: Baked

Originally posted by: jpeyton
I have a digital scale (used for postage) in my office and a container of Ziploc plastic baggies in my kitchen. Should I fear for my life?

Do you hang out w/ loser car thieves and gangster wannabe like this guy? Normal people don't get raided by police. Look at this guy's record and who he hangs out with. He brought the shit on himself.

Complete and utter horseshit. "Normal" people are raided by the police more than they ever should be. But I'm sure that you will come back with some other reason that our constitutional rights should be subverted on the word of anyone that has a problem with you. After all, there was a report just last month that a man was shot in his home after a no knock incident where a cable guy or some other "concerned citizen" told the police that they believed he was running a meth lab.

http://www.reason.com/news/show/125538.html

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/10374909/detail.html

http://home.pacbell.net/rsdotson/sources/IsmaelMena.htm

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10341708/

http://www.saysuncle.com/archi...rong_house_goes_wrong/

http://home.pacbell.net/rsdots...govkills/Sepulveda.htm

http://archive.salon.com/news/...19/shooting/print.html

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f...F93BA1575BC0A96F958260

http://blogs.salon.com/0002762...17/drugWarVictims.html

Wow, had no idea it was this widespread. But hey, if the police murder a few innocent people every once in awhile, so what? They're cops and are therefore infallible, right? What we need to do as Americans is determine what WE'RE doing wrong that's making this happen.

The cops wouldn't need to change their stories or invent cover stories if we stopped complaining every time they shot innocent people, for example. Shame on us!

 

[rivan]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: mugs
Why Do You Capitalize The First Letter Of Every Word?

Grasping at straws?

No, I Was Just Wondering.

Then again, I would too if I had no comment about the donut patrol's screwup.

You're Right, I Don't Have Any Comments About This Situation, Because I Haven't Read The Article. The Police Do Screw Up Sometimes. You Seem To Love It When They Do, Especially When Someone Is Seriously Injured Or Killed. I Guess Because It Gives You An Opportunity To Brush Off Your Same Old Overused Jokes?

YAJPIHCT!

(Yet another jpeyton I hate cops thread!)

They're not infallible. Neither is the system within which they operate. I'm curious how you'd propose to "fix" what you see as broken.

 

[Anubis]

Originally posted by: rivan

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: mugs
Why Do You Capitalize The First Letter Of Every Word?

Grasping at straws?

No, I Was Just Wondering.

Then again, I would too if I had no comment about the donut patrol's screwup.

You're Right, I Don't Have Any Comments About This Situation, Because I Haven't Read The Article. The Police Do Screw Up Sometimes. You Seem To Love It When They Do, Especially When Someone Is Seriously Injured Or Killed. I Guess Because It Gives You An Opportunity To Brush Off Your Same Old Overused Jokes?

YAJPIHCT!

(Yet another jpeyton I hate cops thread!)

They're not infallible. Neither is the system within which they operate. I'm curious how you'd propose to "fix" what you see as broken.

holding them accountablde when they blatently fuck up would be a good start

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: Anubis

Originally posted by: rivan

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: mugs
Why Do You Capitalize The First Letter Of Every Word?

Grasping at straws?

No, I Was Just Wondering.

Then again, I would too if I had no comment about the donut patrol's screwup.

You're Right, I Don't Have Any Comments About This Situation, Because I Haven't Read The Article. The Police Do Screw Up Sometimes. You Seem To Love It When They Do, Especially When Someone Is Seriously Injured Or Killed. I Guess Because It Gives You An Opportunity To Brush Off Your Same Old Overused Jokes?

YAJPIHCT!

(Yet another jpeyton I hate cops thread!)

They're not infallible. Neither is the system within which they operate. I'm curious how you'd propose to "fix" what you see as broken.

holding them accountablde when they blatently fuck up would be a good start

Cops are above the law, surely you got the memo.

 

[slayer202]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: BigToque
How much did this swat team know about the guy or the situation before going in? I imagine all they knew was that they would be raiding a house of a suspected drug dealer at night that might possibly be armed. A guy pulls a gun (even though he dropped it), it does seem reasonable to start shooting at him.

If you lived in a less-than-perfect neighborhood, bought a gun for home defense, heard someone breaking into your home in the middle of the night, and you were not a drug dealer/user (and therefore not expecting a no-knock SWAT drug raid on your home), wouldn't it seem reasonable to grab your gun?

well that is the problem. I would think at the very least, once the cops busted in, they would be yelling to identify themselves as cops so that stuff like this doesn't happen.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: rivan
(Yet another jpeyton I hate cops thread!)

They're not infallible. Neither is the system within which they operate. I'm curious how you'd propose to "fix" what you see as broken.

I don't hate police officers. I am sure the majority is doing the best they can. But there has to be accountability when they fuck up. This is a major fuckup. The dude is lucky he didn't get killed like Sean Bell (I think that is his name) in nyc.

For example, you screw up a major sales job, you get canned. (watch Alvin and the Chipmunks if you don't know what a major screwup in sales means)

The NYPD officers pump 50 shots into a car, killing a groom to be and they get off with a pat in the back?

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: rivan

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: mugs
Why Do You Capitalize The First Letter Of Every Word?

Grasping at straws?

No, I Was Just Wondering.

Then again, I would too if I had no comment about the donut patrol's screwup.

You're Right, I Don't Have Any Comments About This Situation, Because I Haven't Read The Article. The Police Do Screw Up Sometimes. You Seem To Love It When They Do, Especially When Someone Is Seriously Injured Or Killed. I Guess Because It Gives You An Opportunity To Brush Off Your Same Old Overused Jokes?

YAJPIHCT!

(Yet another jpeyton I hate cops thread!)

They're not infallible. Neither is the system within which they operate. I'm curious how you'd propose to "fix" what you see as broken.

lets see:

hold them accountable

not charge someone who is defending there home and protocting loved ones.

repair any damage done

apologize

make sure they have the correct fucking place?


just a few off the top of my head

 

[Agentbolt]

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: rivan

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: mugs
Why Do You Capitalize The First Letter Of Every Word?

Grasping at straws?

No, I Was Just Wondering.

Then again, I would too if I had no comment about the donut patrol's screwup.

You're Right, I Don't Have Any Comments About This Situation, Because I Haven't Read The Article. The Police Do Screw Up Sometimes. You Seem To Love It When They Do, Especially When Someone Is Seriously Injured Or Killed. I Guess Because It Gives You An Opportunity To Brush Off Your Same Old Overused Jokes?

YAJPIHCT!

(Yet another jpeyton I hate cops thread!)

They're not infallible. Neither is the system within which they operate. I'm curious how you'd propose to "fix" what you see as broken.

lets see:

hold them accountable

not charge someone who is defending there home and protocting loved ones.

repair any damage done

apologize

make sure they have the correct fucking place?


just a few off the top of my head

Be careful, that's WAY too many reasonable responses. Rivan can't handle his precious cops being corrected that many different ways at once, it'll make his brain explode.

 

[SuperjetMatt]

Originally posted by: rivan

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: mugs
Why Do You Capitalize The First Letter Of Every Word?

Grasping at straws?

No, I Was Just Wondering.

Then again, I would too if I had no comment about the donut patrol's screwup.

You're Right, I Don't Have Any Comments About This Situation, Because I Haven't Read The Article. The Police Do Screw Up Sometimes. You Seem To Love It When They Do, Especially When Someone Is Seriously Injured Or Killed. I Guess Because It Gives You An Opportunity To Brush Off Your Same Old Overused Jokes?

YAJPIHCT!

(Yet another jpeyton I hate cops thread!)

They're not infallible. Neither is the system within which they operate. I'm curious how you'd propose to "fix" what you see as broken.

Perhaps not breaking & entering into someone's home? Especially when there is no prior conviction, and ZERO prior investigation?
I'm not a cop hater at all, but stuff like what's described in this thread is messed up beyond belief.
And this whole "not infallible" argument doesn't hold water.
How many innocent deaths or innocent incarcerations due to this "not being infallible" are okay?
20 per year?
2000 per year?

 

[Chiropteran]

Originally posted by: rivan
They're not infallible.

They are fallible. No need for the double negative.

 

[theprodigalrebel]

That is way too fucking wrong.

 

[rivan]

Originally posted by: Agentbolt

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: rivan
YAJPIHCT!

(Yet another jpeyton I hate cops thread!)

They're not infallible. Neither is the system within which they operate. I'm curious how you'd propose to "fix" what you see as broken.

lets see:

hold them accountable
not charge someone who is defending there home and protocting loved ones.
repair any damage done
apologize
make sure they have the correct fucking place?

just a few off the top of my head

Be careful, that's WAY too many reasonable responses. Rivan can't handle his precious cops being corrected that many different ways at once, it'll make his brain explode.

My precious cops? Look, I do very often come to the defense of cops on these boards, but make no mistake - I want them held accountable when they make mistakes or intentionally abuse the authority granted their position.

Instead of trying to insult me or my intellect, why don't you answer my questions? Until then, kindly piss off.

Waggy -

hold them accountable

As it relates to this case, who should be held accountable, and how so? The SWAT team that had no part in investigating the search warrant? The detective/department who applied for the warrant? The judge who signed the warrant?

There should be accountability here, I just want it to end up on the right set of shoulders.

The SWAT team was doing their job - serving a no-knock warrant on a drug house. They didn't do ANY of the investigation. They also (are supposed to) yell who they are when entering. There's a cop saying there were drugs sold from the residence. Serving a warrant on a (as far as the SWAT knew) drug house with lollipops doesn't work very well.

The detective that signed the affadavit of drug sales may have lied. Maybe he didn't.

The judge was weighing the sworn word of the detective and the property/owner's prior problems with the law when he signed the warrant.

not charge someone who is defending there home and protocting loved ones.

Agreed. If he's really the upright citizen that INCREDIBLY slanted article is making him out to be. Given the first few paragraphs of descriptions, this is a pretty rough dude; on house arrest, DWIs, an allegedly stolen car.

None of that adds up to him giving up any of his rights, but neither does it put cops in a position of thinking that, if there are drugs being sold there, it would be a good idea to call before stopping by.

repair any damage done
apologize

Agreed, if he's cleared of any wrongdoing on the initial cause for the warrant.

make sure they have the correct fucking place?

Who? The SWAT team had exactly the place on the warrant. They showed up, they did their job, and in hindsight it's a cluster - but I don't see how it's the SWAT team's fault at all.

 

[rivan]

Originally posted by: Chiropteran

Originally posted by: rivan
They're not infallible.

They are fallible. No need for the double negative.

Thanks

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: rivan

Originally posted by: Agentbolt

Originally posted by: waggy

Originally posted by: rivan
YAJPIHCT!

(Yet another jpeyton I hate cops thread!)

They're not infallible. Neither is the system within which they operate. I'm curious how you'd propose to "fix" what you see as broken.

lets see:

hold them accountable
not charge someone who is defending there home and protocting loved ones.
repair any damage done
apologize
make sure they have the correct fucking place?

just a few off the top of my head

Be careful, that's WAY too many reasonable responses. Rivan can't handle his precious cops being corrected that many different ways at once, it'll make his brain explode.

My precious cops? Look, I do very often come to the defense of cops on these boards, but make no mistake - I want them held accountable when they make mistakes or intentionally abuse the authority granted their position.

Instead of trying to insult me or my intellect, why don't you answer my questions? Until then, kindly piss off.

Waggy -

hold them accountable

As it relates to this case, who should be held accountable, and how so? The SWAT team that had no part in investigating the search warrant? The detective/department who applied for the warrant? The judge who signed the warrant?

There should be accountability here, I just want it to end up on the right set of shoulders.

The SWAT team was doing their job - serving a no-knock warrant on a drug house. They didn't do ANY of the investigation. They also (are supposed to) yell who they are when entering. There's a cop saying there were drugs sold from the residence. Serving a warrant on a (as far as the SWAT knew) drug house with lollipops doesn't work very well.

The detective that signed the affadavit of drug sales may have lied. Maybe he didn't.

The judge was weighing the sworn word of the detective and the property/owner's prior problems with the law when he signed the warrant.

not charge someone who is defending there home and protocting loved ones.

Agreed. If he's really the upright citizen that INCREDIBLY slanted article is making him out to be. Given the first few paragraphs of descriptions, this is a pretty rough dude; on house arrest, DWIs, an allegedly stolen car.

None of that adds up to him giving up any of his rights, but neither does it put cops in a position of thinking that, if there are drugs being sold there, it would be a good idea to call before stopping by.

repair any damage done
apologize

Agreed, if he's cleared of any wrongdoing on the initial cause for the warrant.

make sure they have the correct fucking place?

Who? The SWAT team had exactly the place on the warrant. They showed up, they did their job, and in hindsight it's a cluster - but I don't see how it's the SWAT team's fault at all.

That's what I was thinking, you can't really blame the cops for doing their job. Lawmakers' and judge's fault if no knock warrants are allowed and it was based on flimsy evidence. I love how Judges and lawmakers always get a pass and cops take all the flame.

 

[rivan]

Originally posted by: SuperjetMatt

Originally posted by: rivan
YAJPIHCT!

(Yet another jpeyton I hate cops thread!)

They're not infallible. Neither is the system within which they operate. I'm curious how you'd propose to "fix" what you see as broken.

Perhaps not breaking & entering into someone's home? Especially when there is no prior conviction, and ZERO prior investigation?
I'm not a cop hater at all, but stuff like what's described in this thread is messed up beyond belief.
And this whole "not infallible" argument doesn't hold water.
How many innocent deaths or innocent incarcerations due to this "not being infallible" are okay?
20 per year?
2000 per year?

None are okay.

There should be accountability. There should be steps taken to reduce errors and keep everyone involved (cops and the public) safe and just as importantly, free. It will never be zero.

My problem is that posts like this, based on slanted, inflammatory articles like that, do absolutely nothing to help the situation. The "journalist" that wrote that didn't talk at all about the law's side of the story because the law didn't comment much on their side of the story (because they're more interested in the outcome of the trial than the newspaper piece).

There's also only very rarely incontrovertible proof available for people breaking the law like this. I'd saw a narcotics officer's testimony is pretty good to go from. If we're not going to place some public trust in those guys then we've got bigger issues as a society than a few bad cops.

Also, how many SWAT operations like this go in on a year without injury? If the rate of injury of the public/perps is under 1%, I'd call that pretty good. How many SWAT operations are done per year that DO turn up (and break up) drug dealers? If it's over 95%, I'd call that pretty good, too.

 

[ViviTheMage]

oh well, cops would rather NOT lose their life. The fact he held the gun may have freaked the cops, granted the news tends to skew the real news anyway.

 

[sdifox]

Originally posted by: JS80
That's what I was thinking, you can't really blame the cops for doing their job. Lawmakers' and judge's fault if no knock warrants are allowed and it was based on flimsy evidence. I love how Judges and lawmakers always get a pass and cops take all the flame.

Err, who asked for the no knock? Surely it is not the judge?

I am not sure about how much blame swat should get. But the officer who initiated the warrant request is the most resposible.

 

[Juno]

geez, i have A LOT of zipoloc bags to store my clay materials.

 

[MrPickins]

Very sad.

No-knock warrants shouldn't be allowed.

 

[Kirby]

Do you go out of your way to look for cop stories?