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Another nail in Crucial/Micron's coffin.

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Originally posted by: SeekingTao
And what does the "best tool for the job" have to do with "Don't pay $10 for Product X at Joe's when you can get it for $5 at Mark's"? That was an evasive reply.

I don't mean to be evasive... Maybe I just don't understand what you're driving towards...

Sure, people are price conscious.
Sure, some people don't give a rat's ass about how well (or how poorly) a company is doing.
Sure, some people don't give a damn about the truth of what's going on in the semiconductor industry and believe everything they read on hardware websites.

I'm certainly not out to control ANYONE'S buying habits. I only really give a crap about my own. My original point was that Micron is in the shitter, when most people here think they're the savior of the memory world. I've said how I feel about them, i'm not sure what else you want me to say...
 
Originally posted by: Ice9
Originally posted by: SeekingTao
And what does the "best tool for the job" have to do with "Don't pay $10 for Product X at Joe's when you can get it for $5 at Mark's"? That was an evasive reply.

I don't mean to be evasive... Maybe I just don't understand what you're driving towards...

Sure, people are price conscious.
Sure, some people don't give a rat's ass about how well (or how poorly) a company is doing.
Sure, some people don't give a damn about the truth of what's going on in the semiconductor industry and believe everything they read on hardware websites.

I'm certainly not out to control ANYONE'S buying habits. I only really give a crap about my own. My original point was that Micron is in the shitter, when most people here think they're the savior of the memory world. I've said how I feel about them, i'm not sure what else you want me to say...
I'm not trying to force you to say anything, sorry if it appears that way. 🙁 I was just trying to drum up an ethics debate I guess even though I should be working on my paper, it's due tomorrow. :Q

But honestly, the only semiconductor company that I really care about is AMD. If they don't do well (i.e. keep their heads above water) then it is my opinion that the computer market will get really ugly. A move to another platform would be required.

Me: " Hello Sun? I can't afford a PC, can I buy one of your workstations?" 🙂

 
Originally posted by: Ice9
Originally posted by: Goose77
jhahah he lost his ass in rambus. thats why he's trying to get u all to invest in them.. so he can get his money back. ahahahahaq


I haven't lost a dime on Rambus. Nor would I expect anyone here to invest in them. You guys already support Rambus by doing one of two things:

Buying memory from a company that pays royalties to Rambus (9 of them)
Buying memory from a company that sells it at a loss (Micron, Infineon, Hynix)

Like it or not, Rambus is a profitable company even with all the BS lawsuits flying around. They aren't making hundreds of millions of dollars a year, but I'll take a yearly take-home profit of $25M a year over a $619M dollar LOSS in a single quarter. Rambus has more revenue coming in the form of Redwood/Yellowstone next year from the Toshiba/IBM Cell Technology project (which will power the PS3), and more from the PLX alliance to deliver PCI Express.

You guys don't have to buy a single share for Rambus to be successful. They already are.



i dont do this out of choice... trust me, if they still sold the ABIT KT7a Raid (KT133 sdram tech) i would be buying that!! sdram would be alot better if they could just scale the speeds. With low latencies, and high speeds, it would be the better performer(real world).
 
Originally posted by: Goose77

i dont do this out of choice... trust me, if they still sold the ABIT KT7a Raid (KT133 sdram tech) i would be buying that!! sdram would be alot better if they could just scale the speeds. With low latencies, and high speeds, it would be the better performer(real world).

Moot point, since it simply doesn't scale that well. Either way, who cares 🙂 It's still Rambus technology.
 
But honestly, the only semiconductor company that I really care about is AMD. If they don't do well (i.e. keep their heads above water) then it is my opinion that the computer market will get really ugly. A move to another platform would be required.



hey seekingtoa, i dont really thing AMD is going anywhere. with the Microsoft supporting the athlon 64 launch, and other software companies falling in line, i find it hard to believe that they will go under. I just found out that the reason they are not launching it now is that they dont want it competting with the barton. thats why its only in the server market for now. Plus, it would be a good idea to launch a 64bit cpu with the launch of a 64bit OS... XP 64 to be exact! I mean come on!! if Windows XP 64 and AMD Athlon XP 64 isn't a marketing ploy, then i dont know what is!!!!!!!
 
Originally posted by: Goose77

hey seekingtoa, i dont really thing AMD is going anywhere. with the Microsoft supporting the athlon 64 launch, and other software companies falling in line, i find it hard to believe that they will go under. I just found out that the reason they are not launching it now is that they dont want it competting with the barton. thats why its only in the server market for now. Plus, it would be a good idea to launch a 64bit cpu with the launch of a 64bit OS... XP 64 to be exact! I mean come on!! if Windows XP 64 and AMD Athlon XP 64 isn't a marketing ploy, then i dont know what is!!!!!!!

If microsoft was supporting the Athlon 64 launch, why did they leave out an Athlon64 version of Windows 2003 server? 🙂 To date, you simply can't get it. Itanium or Itanium 2? No problem.

What other software companies are falling in line?

Windows XP 64 bit has already been out since the beginning for the Itanium. It's still nowhere to be found for the Athlon XP 64.

The athlon 64 is going to flop. It's an Intel IA32 world out there, and the Athlon 64 isn't going to magically create a market for itself. But that's my own dumb opinion.
 
Originally posted by: Ice9
Originally posted by: Goose77

hey seekingtoa, i dont really thing AMD is going anywhere. with the Microsoft supporting the athlon 64 launch, and other software companies falling in line, i find it hard to believe that they will go under. I just found out that the reason they are not launching it now is that they dont want it competting with the barton. thats why its only in the server market for now. Plus, it would be a good idea to launch a 64bit cpu with the launch of a 64bit OS... XP 64 to be exact! I mean come on!! if Windows XP 64 and AMD Athlon XP 64 isn't a marketing ploy, then i dont know what is!!!!!!!

If microsoft was supporting the Athlon 64 launch, why did they leave out an Athlon64 version of Windows 2003 server? 🙂 To date, you simply can't get it. Itanium or Itanium 2? No problem.

What other software companies are falling in line?

Windows XP 64 bit has already been out since the beginning for the Itanium. It's still nowhere to be found for the Athlon XP 64.

The athlon 64 is going to flop. It's an Intel IA32 world out there, and the Athlon 64 isn't going to magically create a market for itself. But that's my own dumb opinion.
Because there was no Athlon64 when .NET server was written.
 
Ice9, I stopped following the Micron/Inf lawsuits with Rambus a while back, what was the outcome to the discussion about Rambus attending the JEDEC meetings and not speaking up to its pending patents? It was shown that they had filed before JEDEC, and received patents after JEDEC decided on a standard.

just trying to get clarification
 
from seeking toa: Because there was no Athlon64 when .NET server was written.

^^exactly,

from ice: Itanium or Itanium 2? No problem

yeah but it sucks ass in 32bit, just becasue the product was released first doesnt make it better. In some instances, speed is not a value... I'm sure you have heard that before, LOL 😉

from ice: Windows XP 64 bit has already been out since the beginning for the Itanium. It's still nowhere to be found for the Athlon XP 64.

The athlon 64 is going to flop. It's an Intel IA32 world out there, and the Athlon 64 isn't going to magically create a market for itself. But that's my own dumb opinion.


yes, in server version only 🙁. but if you look HERE you will see the light.(although i doubt it)
 
Originally posted by: buleyb
Ice9, I stopped following the Micron/Inf lawsuits with Rambus a while back, what was the outcome to the discussion about Rambus attending the JEDEC meetings and not speaking up to its pending patents? It was shown that they had filed before JEDEC, and received patents after JEDEC decided on a standard.

just trying to get clarification

the FTC is still suing them under anti-trust laws for improperly patenting the technologies. trial is to begin april 29th
 
ICE.. what happened to you.. i dont see you responding as promptly as you once did!!! hello!! WHERE ARE U??? LOL
 
Originally posted by: buleyb
Ice9, I stopped following the Micron/Inf lawsuits with Rambus a while back, what was the outcome to the discussion about Rambus attending the JEDEC meetings and not speaking up to its pending patents? It was shown that they had filed before JEDEC, and received patents after JEDEC decided on a standard.

just trying to get clarification

A lot has happened.

First off, Judge Payne found Rambus guilty of Fraud after infineon convinced Payne to disregard Rambus' markman ruling. Basically, Judge Payne took their 1990 patent out of their hands.

After they lost the case, the FTC immediately sued Rambus on antitrust grounds based on the fraud ruling.

Rambus immediately appealed Payne's ruling to the CAFC. After 8 months of consideration, the CAFC (Court of appeals, Federal circuit) completely overturned Judge Payne's verdict, claiming he erred in his claims construction. Since the FTC no longer had antitrust grounds, they changed their grounds for suit on "Document shredding" and moved towards a summary judgement (a ruling against them without a trial).

The case was recently heard by Judge Timony of the FTC. He immediately denied the summary judgement which grants Rambus the right to a trial, but said that the "burden of proof is to fall on Rambus" in the absence of these documents. Judge timony resigned into retirement shortly thereafter, and the case now has a new judge.

The FTC's case is going very poorly though. In fact, all the adverse presumptions that Judge Timony ordered in this case have been proven 100% wrong. You can view transcripts of the pre-trial motions here.

Also, very recently Rambus also swayed Mitsubishi (known as MELCO in the court briefs) to turn over documentation clearly showing that JEDEC knew about Rambus' patents well before they ratified SDRAM and put it into full production. Judge Timony originally ruled that if JEDEC had known about Rambus' patents beforehand, that the FTC's case would be "immaterial".

Well, guess what. Rambus has filed a motion proving just that, and has filed for summary judgement.

The big problem is the FTC itself. They're not a "lawful" body. They're a budgeted section of the government that has to justify its existence. They could rule against Rambus despite all proof that they are right. However, once they appeal, this case goes right back to the CAFC... and they already ruled in Rambus' favor.

Ultimately, Rambus can't lose, because the facts are 100% in their favor. All that's happening now is stalling tactics so Micron doesn't have to pay royalties while they're already losing money hand over fist. Since Micron is the company with strong political ties, it's in their best interest to stall Rambus for as long as possible. But eventually, they will have to pay up.

 
Originally posted by: Goose77
ICE.. what happened to you.. i dont see you responding as promptly as you once did!!! hello!! WHERE ARE U??? LOL

Sorry, It was lunchtime here in NYC.
 
Crucial's memory is no good anymore.. back in the day it was fine.. but where is the high performance DDR? there is none. the DDR333 will barely O/C at all... they cant seem to pull their act together and keep with the times. sucks.
 
Originally posted by: Ice9
Originally posted by: buleyb
Ice9, I stopped following the Micron/Inf lawsuits with Rambus a while back, what was the outcome to the discussion about Rambus attending the JEDEC meetings and not speaking up to its pending patents? It was shown that they had filed before JEDEC, and received patents after JEDEC decided on a standard.

just trying to get clarification

A lot has happened.

First off, Judge Payne found Rambus guilty of Fraud after infineon convinced Payne to disregard Rambus' markman ruling. Basically, Judge Payne took their 1990 patent out of their hands.

After they lost the case, the FTC immediately sued Rambus on antitrust grounds based on the fraud ruling.

Rambus immediately appealed Payne's ruling to the CAFC. After 8 months of consideration, the CAFC (Court of appeals, Federal circuit) completely overturned Judge Payne's verdict, claiming he erred in his claims construction. Since the FTC no longer had antitrust grounds, they changed their grounds for suit on "Document shredding" and moved towards a summary judgement (a ruling against them without a trial).

The case was recently heard by Judge Timony of the FTC. He immediately denied the summary judgement which grants Rambus the right to a trial, but said that the "burden of proof is to fall on Rambus" in the absence of these documents. Judge timony resigned into retirement shortly thereafter, and the case now has a new judge.

The FTC's case is going very poorly though. In fact, all the adverse presumptions that Judge Timony ordered in this case have been proven 100% wrong. You can view transcripts of the pre-trial motions here.

Also, very recently Rambus also swayed Mitsubishi (known as MELCO in the court briefs) to turn over documentation clearly showing that JEDEC knew about Rambus' patents well before they ratified SDRAM and put it into full production. Judge Timony originally ruled that if JEDEC had known about Rambus' patents beforehand, that the FTC's case would be "immaterial".

Well, guess what. Rambus has filed a motion proving just that, and has filed for summary judgement.

The big problem is the FTC itself. They're not a "lawful" body. They're a budgeted section of the government that has to justify its existence. They could rule against Rambus despite all proof that they are right. However, once they appeal, this case goes right back to the CAFC... and they already ruled in Rambus' favor.

Ultimately, Rambus can't lose, because the facts are 100% in their favor. All that's happening now is stalling tactics so Micron doesn't have to pay royalties while they're already losing money hand over fist. Since Micron is the company with strong political ties, it's in their best interest to stall Rambus for as long as possible. But eventually, they will have to pay up.

All that you have said here is that there is a process going on. show me something that says Rambus as won and no more cases will be brought against them. This is only the begining. until all options have been exhausted, i dont see an end any time soon.
 
Originally posted by: Goose77All that you have said here is that there is a process going on. show me something that says Rambus as won and no more cases will be brought against them. This is only the begining. until all options have been exhausted, i dont see an end any time soon.

Right, and i've explained the process. And this has ALREADY been going on forever.

But the end will be within the next year, possibly even sooner. And in the meantime, Rambus will be able to get royalties from the remaining 3 companies via summary orders and immediate relief because of the CAFC ruling. The FTC case doesn't even have to be won for that to happen. The federal circuit court already granted Rambus the right to sue whoever they want for patent infringement, AND gave them their markman ruling back. This gives them the ability to not only sue Infineon/Micron/Hynix, but sue with the precedent that the 1990 SDRAM patents are 100% valid, and that Rambus owned the technology. They will likely all settle out of court once Infineon concedes since it sets a huge legal precedent.... but one thing has to happen first:

The last part of this mess is the En Banc filing from Infineon, which will be decided any day now. En Banc, if granted, would mean the reversal would be reviewed by the entire CAFC panel. However these reviews are RARELY granted. Basically you have to prove that the original judge panel was corrupt or just plain wrong because of prior precedents, which hasn't happened. Plus one of the judges who ruled is Judge Rader, one of the most prominent judges in the CAFC.

Of course, Infineon COULD fight the CAFC ruling in the superior court, but they would have to post $1B in bond to Rambus just to do so. AND if they lose, they lose to the tune of TRIPLE DAMAGES. The Superior Court does NOT like having its time wasted, and this case would be a complete waste of time. In fact, they would likely not even hear it.
 
Ice9,
I am sorry to inform you, but RAMBUS is dead in the personal computer realm. Even if one disregards the fact that they charged an insanely unreasonable amount for little performance increase during the i820/i840 era, one surely cannot forget its JEDEC snafu. RAMBUS simply combined poor technological decisions with exorbitant licensing fees. RAMBUS' solution to bandwidth was simply faster clock-speed through proprietary technology. I argue that DDR and DDRII (and the companies that design/manufacture the chips) are in fact more innovative than RAMBUS. DDRI and DDRII both rely on existing technology that was simply augmented and improved to provide the memory bandwidth necessary for today's applications. While Hynex, Micron, Infineon, etc. retained an open, JEDEC-sanctioned forum that simply (and effectively) improved current DRAM technologies, RAMBUS developed a secretive, proprietary technique and used brute-force technology and strong-arm ?persuasion? tactics to control the market. It is crazy to even consider RAMBUS for a PIV system nowadays; the platform is too old (the ICH2 Southbridge on the i850E mobos lack too many requisite features commonly found in the cheapest i845 mobos) and not that much faster than Granite Bay. Springdale and Canterwood will be released soon, and they will wipe the floor with RAMBUS. Even Intel's server/workstation platforms (e7501 and e7505) have abandoned RAMBUS in favor of dual-channel DDR. RAMBUS has been justly relegated to the world of consoles, where its only future prospects are the PS3 (and perhaps some handheld devices such as phones, PDAs, etc.). Open hardware standards always trounce proprietary technology. Sell your RAMBUS stock last week already. 😎
 
Originally posted by: NeilPeart
Ice9,
I am sorry to inform you, but RAMBUS is dead in the personal computer realm. Even if one disregards the fact that they charged an insanely unreasonable amount for little performance increase during the i820/i840 era, one surely cannot forget its JEDEC snafu. RAMBUS simply combined poor technological decisions with exorbitant licensing fees.

- Rambus charged a 1.5% royalty on RDRAM. That is 100% reasonable, and they made it available to everybody.
- The JEDEC snafu is over. The federal circuit court found Rambus 100% within the law.
- The CAFC also stated that Rambus disclosed more about their patents than they had to.

RAMBUS' solution to bandwidth was simply faster clock-speed through proprietary technology. I argue that DDR and DDRII (and the companies that design/manufacture the chips) are in fact more innovative than RAMBUS. DDRI and DDRII both rely on existing technology that was simply augmented and improved to provide the memory bandwidth necessary for today's applications. While Hynex, Micron, Infineon, etc. retained an open, JEDEC-sanctioned forum that simply (and effectively) improved current DRAM technologies, RAMBUS developed a secretive, proprietary technique and used brute-force technology and strong-arm ?persuasion? tactics to control the market.

- DDR technology belongs to *RAMBUS*. It has since 1990.
- They have a right to collect royalties on THEIR technology.
- JEDEC stole this technology.

It is crazy to even consider RAMBUS for a PIV system nowadays; the platform is too old (the ICH2 Southbridge on the i850E mobos lack too many requisite features commonly found in the cheapest i845 mobos) and not that much faster than Granite Bay. Springdale and Canterwood will be released soon, and they will wipe the floor with RAMBUS.

But will they wipe the floor with SIS 659? Either way, I'm not pitching RDRAM. Whether or not you buy RDRAM, DDR or SDRAM today, Rambus gets a cut. It's all their technology anyway.

Even Intel's server/workstation platforms (e7501 and e7505) have abandoned RAMBUS in favor of dual-channel DDR. RAMBUS has been justly relegated to the world of consoles, where its only future prospects are the PS3 (and perhaps some handheld devices such as phones, PDAs, etc.). Open hardware standards always trounce proprietary technology. Sell your RAMBUS stock last week already. 😎

Intel had no choice. They were strong-armed by the memory manufacturers. From this link:

"Apparently bowing to memory makers, Intel backed off. It said PC makers could use either DDR or Rambus memories."

Also, you're 100% wrong on them being stuck to the world of consoles. Rambus is put into the world when speed matters.

It's in products like the new Cray X1 supercomputer. No DDR here!
It's also in the new Alpha EV7. No DDR here!
It's used in super high-speed routers and optical circuit switching technology. No DDR here!
Toshiba, Sony and IBM all licensed Rambus Yellowstone technology for their Cell technology, and is expected to be everywhere, not just the PS3.
Oh, and if you plan on buying a machine with PCI Express technology, You're gonna be stuck with Rambus again!

Rambus is ANYTHING but dead in the personal computer realm. They've been thriving where Hynix, Micron and Infineon have been *FAILING*.
 
Originally posted by: Ice9
Can't imagine that being a big CPU hog.... Either way, a P4 3.06 would make pretty short order of anything you throw at it. I know mine does 🙂

even in price!
 
Ice9, Others may refuse to believe that they've been duped by the memory manufacturers in to believing half-truths and outright lies but I have no difficulty doing so. The infomation you continue to post substantiated by credible links and reflected in legal rulings made to date leaves little doubt that RAMBUS deserves to be and will be exonerated and recompensed.

I for one appreciate that you've taken the time and effort to try to correct the massive amount of mis/disinformation A.K.A. FUD that runs rampant on the 'net. It seems evident to me at this point that RAMBUS has been mischaracterized and maligned as part of an effort to get away with stealing IP fro RAMBUS for the financial gain of their competitiors, something that happens quite often in the world of corporate warfare. I'll reserve some skepticism however until all is completely said and done as my life's experience has taugth me that situations like these are quite often simply the lesser of two known evils as oppossed to a black and white/good and bad dynamic that others attempt to portray it as 😉
 
Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER
Ice9, Others may refuse to believe that they've been duped by the memory manufacturers in to believing half-truths and outright lies but I have no difficulty doing so. The infomation you continue to post substantiated by credible links and reflected in legal rulings made to date leaves little doubt that RAMBUS deserves to be and will be exonerated and recompensed.

I for one appreciate that you've taken the time and effort to try to correct the massive amount of mis/disinformation A.K.A. FUD that runs rampant on the 'net. It seems evident to me at this point that RAMBUS has been mischaracterized and maligned as part of an effort to get away with stealing IP fro RAMBUS for the financial gain of their competitiors, something that happens quite often in the world of corporate warfare. I'll reserve some skepticism however until all is completely said and done as my life's experience has taugth me that situations like these are quite often simply the lesser of two known evils as oppossed to a black and white/good and bad dynamic that others attempt to portray it as 😉


Dapunisher, this is a good comment but thats about it. I dont think that all these techs/people have been duped, i think they made a choice based on there knowledge. The choice was not based on who stole what tech from who, but what tech will provide me with what i need. I did the same when the only choice left was RDRAM vs. DDR. RIMMs didnt offer a significant preformance advantage over DDR for the price.

The main reason for the price difference, was that switching from SDram to DDR was simple. It was simple because the manufacturing process is so similar. The same can not be said about RIMMs. The manufacturing cost of RIMMs was much more then DDR, hence the price difference. If wrong about this, please provid proof!

As for mischaracterization, the past alinement of INTEL and Rambus offering only RIMM platforms and not allowing customers to choose what they want, needs no help of making them look bad form other companies. They kinda shot them selves in the foot!

And about providing proof, Fact, or halftuths as you say, can be bent to support your opinion. Politicians, Media, and lawyers are renowned for it. Example, when i stated that Microsoft's winxp 64 supports the athlonxp launch. now the fact that ice provided is true and searches showed me that winxp64 was made for Itanium, but thats only half true. The link that i provide shows that what i said is true. Now how can we both be right if we are on oppisite sides??? and the anwser is ^up there^.

I do, however, appluad your skepticism. If you notice, the beginning trials made rambus look guilty. Now these trials made them look inocient. You never know how a judge will rule. It could always go the other way. Its not over till the FAT LADY SINGS! 😉
 
Goose77, those were nice comments but that's about it 😉 😛 Touche' monsieur!
 
The main reason for the price difference, was that switching from SDram to DDR was simple. It was simple because the manufacturing process is so similar. The same can not be said about RIMMs. The manufacturing cost of RIMMs was much more then DDR, hence the price difference. If wrong about this, please provid proof!

100% BS. The cost of manufacturing SDRAM has been comparable for 3 years. In fact, it was on par with SDRAM pricing back in the day. It is now MORE EXPENSIVE to manufacture DDR, hence the HUGE losses by the Dramurai.

Reducing RDRAM core size by 8 percent will not make the die size ? a key factor in determining manufacturing cost ? equal to that of lower-cost SDRAMs, which can be more than 20 percent smaller than 800-MHz RDRAMs. But to Toshiba, it is a step in the right direction to make RDRAMs a mainstream product.


From EETimes 3 years ago.

Back in 2001, Samsung got it down even cheaper. They also noted that RDRAM added a cost of "around $100 to the cost of a PC" versus SDRAM (not DDR, just plain ole SDRAM). That margin is even less today. Is DDR cheaper? Sure! How can it not be when it's selling at a huge loss? But is that the answer to the semiconductor industry? I think not. How long can this go on?

As for mischaracterization, the past alinement of INTEL and Rambus offering only RIMM platforms and not allowing customers to choose what they want, needs no help of making them look bad form other companies. They kinda shot them selves in the foot!

Well, they needed something faster than SDRAM at the time, and DDR was nowhere in sight at the launch of the P4. Leave it to JEDEC to slow things down for everyone.

And about providing proof, Fact, or halftuths as you say, can be bent to support your opinion. Politicians, Media, and lawyers are renowned for it. Example, when i stated that Microsoft's winxp 64 supports the athlonxp launch. now the fact that ice provided is true and searches showed me that winxp64 was made for Itanium, but thats only half true. The link that i provide shows that what i said is true. Now how can we both be right if we are on oppisite sides??? and the anwser is ^up there^.

Or maybe right here. Not looking very rosy, eh? Especially when everyone was going on and on about how "Microsoft is behind X86-64 all the way".... The truth *IS* out there, but it's not as pretty as everyone thinks.

I do, however, appluad your skepticism. If you notice, the beginning trials made rambus look guilty. Now these trials made them look inocient. You never know how a judge will rule. It could always go the other way. Its not over till the FAT LADY SINGS! 😉

The fat lady already sang. Rambus was vindicated as it should have been. This happened back in January. The most Infineon can do now is legally stall, but in the end, they're going to have to pay up. Rambus now has all it needs to get immediate relief.
 
I hope they can get back on their feet. I use Crucial memory in my system, and I recommend it to everyone except for hardcore overclockers.
 
Originally posted by: Ice9
Pretty soon, all the banner ads in the world won't help Micron/Crucial become profitable...

Micron loses $619 Million this past quarter

Let's see...

$619M this past quarter,
$315M the quarter before that,
$586M the quarter before that,
$024M the quarger before that......

That's $1.5 **BILLION** dollars in the past year down the tubes.

Way to go, Micron!

That's what "free shipping" does to companies. They make no money or lose money on "free shipping" deals. Every company is playing the waiting game to see who will fall out of the race. It's like amazon. They played the waiting game for like 5 years and then tons of companies got out of the market.

 
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