Another Maui wind farm in the works

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Link

They say the location of this farm won't be visible from most of the towns and resorts. When combined with the new Kaheawa project, which now has 19 of 20 units in operation, the two farms could provide as much as 70 megawatts of power to an island that uses 200 megawatts overall.

And who is banking the project? Shell Oil!

Edit: And they have a plan to combine it with an artificial hydro project as well. Brilliant!

 

[Moonbeam]

I just drove by a huge Mitsubishi wind farm of the most south west point in the US on the big island the other day and was wondering what the hell happened to it. It was falling apart and looked completely abandoned.

 

[GeNome]

I'll timidly call this Good News, and give shell a :thumbsup:

 

[dahunan]

Using part of our tax dollars daddy buskbucks gave them as tax incentives

I bet the cost of these is small enough that Hawaii citizens/govt could have funded the project themselves and told energy companies to go to hell ..

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Using part of our tax dollars daddy buskbucks gave them as tax incentives

I bet the cost of these is small enough that Hawaii citizens/govt could have funded the project themselves and told energy companies to go to hell ..

Meh... It's $200 million. Not exactly chump change. But yeah... It would make more sense to have the state own it. I guess it all depends on how much Shell is going to charge them for the power. If electric rates stay the same or go down slightly then it's probably a smart move on Hawaii's part to have someone else foot the bill.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Using part of our tax dollars daddy buskbucks gave them as tax incentives

I bet the cost of these is small enough that Hawaii citizens/govt could have funded the project themselves and told energy companies to go to hell ..

Umm.... k? That doesn't really make any sense.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: dahunan
Using part of our tax dollars daddy buskbucks gave them as tax incentives

I bet the cost of these is small enough that Hawaii citizens/govt could have funded the project themselves and told energy companies to go to hell ..

Umm.... k? That doesn't really make any sense.

It is nice of Shell to give some of their $200,000,000 to it.. BUT .. mr bush GAVE them $15,000,000,000 in tax breaks to research-invest in this stuff.. AND GUESS WHY? So they can keep control of the finances of it.. Do you really think bush (oil/energy man) would want states to become self sufficient

$15,000,000,000 tax incentives given to big oil

couple months later

$15,000,000,000 taken away from GUARANTEED Student loan funding for higher education

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: dahunan
Using part of our tax dollars daddy buskbucks gave them as tax incentives

I bet the cost of these is small enough that Hawaii citizens/govt could have funded the project themselves and told energy companies to go to hell ..

Umm.... k? That doesn't really make any sense.

It is nice of Shell to give some of their $200,000,000 to it.. BUT .. mr bush GAVE them $15,000,000,000 in tax breaks to research-invest in this stuff.. AND GUESS WHY? So they can keep control of the finances of it.. Do you really think bush (oil/energy man) would want states to become self sufficient

$15,000,000,000 tax incentives given to big oil

couple months later

$15,000,000,000 taken away from GUARANTEED Student loan funding for higher education

It would be nice if you would quit blabbering and make some sense....

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: dahunan
Using part of our tax dollars daddy buskbucks gave them as tax incentives

I bet the cost of these is small enough that Hawaii citizens/govt could have funded the project themselves and told energy companies to go to hell ..

Umm.... k? That doesn't really make any sense.

It is nice of Shell to give some of their $200,000,000 to it.. BUT .. mr bush GAVE them $15,000,000,000 in tax breaks to research-invest in this stuff.. AND GUESS WHY? So they can keep control of the finances of it.. Do you really think bush (oil/energy man) would want states to become self sufficient

$15,000,000,000 tax incentives given to big oil

couple months later

$15,000,000,000 taken away from GUARANTEED Student loan funding for higher education

OK... I think you're confused here... The tax cut was for the entire industry, not Shell alone. Shell did not get a $15 billion tax cut. The tax cut was intended to incentivise the oil industry to research alternative energy sources. (Wind farms!) And that is exactly what they are doing in this case.

The net result is that Maui will generate up to 25% of it's electricity with something other than oil in the next five years. (And there will be other places too... I picked Maui because I spend a lot of time there)

So they were given a tax cut to persue alternative energy sources. They are spending the money on R&D (and implementation!) for exactly that purpose. How is this a bad thing?

 

[dahunan]

When they go to charge the US Taxpayers for the service.. they aren't going to take into account that we gave them $15 billion dollars to develop it... I knew it wasn't only for Shell Oil.. but the entire industry

It was welfare money.. they would research this energy anyways.. without our tax money paying them to do it

Now we just gave the richest industry in the history of man more "free money" while we took money away from US Citizens who wanted to "borrow" money to go to Colleges and Universities..

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: dahunan
When they go to charge the US Taxpayers for the service.. they aren't going to take into account that we gave them $15 billion dollars to develop it... I knew it wasn't only for Shell Oil.. but the entire industry

It was welfare money.. they would research this energy anyways.. without our tax money paying them to do it

Now we just gave the richest industry in the history of man more "free money" while we took money away from US Citizens who wanted to "borrow" money to go to Colleges and Universities..

So, my analogy was that bad

 

[wetech]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: dahunan
Using part of our tax dollars daddy buskbucks gave them as tax incentives

I bet the cost of these is small enough that Hawaii citizens/govt could have funded the project themselves and told energy companies to go to hell ..

Umm.... k? That doesn't really make any sense.

It is nice of Shell to give some of their $200,000,000 to it.. BUT .. mr bush GAVE them $15,000,000,000 in tax breaks to research-invest in this stuff.. AND GUESS WHY? So they can keep control of the finances of it.. Do you really think bush (oil/energy man) would want states to become self sufficient

$15,000,000,000 tax incentives given to big oil

couple months later

$15,000,000,000 taken away from GUARANTEED Student loan funding for higher education

It's amazing how some people can turn anything into a Bush bash.

"Shell Oil funds envio-friendly alternative energy"

Response: "This is all Bush's fault. Damn you big corporations."

At least you didn't try to tie it to Iraq.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: wetech

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: dahunan
Using part of our tax dollars daddy buskbucks gave them as tax incentives

I bet the cost of these is small enough that Hawaii citizens/govt could have funded the project themselves and told energy companies to go to hell ..

Umm.... k? That doesn't really make any sense.

It is nice of Shell to give some of their $200,000,000 to it.. BUT .. mr bush GAVE them $15,000,000,000 in tax breaks to research-invest in this stuff.. AND GUESS WHY? So they can keep control of the finances of it.. Do you really think bush (oil/energy man) would want states to become self sufficient

$15,000,000,000 tax incentives given to big oil

couple months later

$15,000,000,000 taken away from GUARANTEED Student loan funding for higher education

It's amazing how some people can turn anything into a Bush bash.

"Shell Oil funds envio-friendly alternative energy"

Response: "This is all Bush's fault. Damn you big corporations."

At least you didn't try to tie it to Iraq.

You might want to look at WHO funded it -- YOU paid for it .. they just did the work and will gladly charge you for any electricity you receive from it

 

[wetech]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: wetech

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: dahunan
Using part of our tax dollars daddy buskbucks gave them as tax incentives

I bet the cost of these is small enough that Hawaii citizens/govt could have funded the project themselves and told energy companies to go to hell ..

Umm.... k? That doesn't really make any sense.

It is nice of Shell to give some of their $200,000,000 to it.. BUT .. mr bush GAVE them $15,000,000,000 in tax breaks to research-invest in this stuff.. AND GUESS WHY? So they can keep control of the finances of it.. Do you really think bush (oil/energy man) would want states to become self sufficient

$15,000,000,000 tax incentives given to big oil

couple months later

$15,000,000,000 taken away from GUARANTEED Student loan funding for higher education

It's amazing how some people can turn anything into a Bush bash.

"Shell Oil funds envio-friendly alternative energy"

Response: "This is all Bush's fault. Damn you big corporations."

At least you didn't try to tie it to Iraq.

You might want to look at WHO funded it -- YOU paid for it .. they just did the work and will gladly charge you for any electricity you receive from it

It's generally accepted that companies can charge for services provided. Do you think that the Hawaiian government knows anything about running a windfarm?

Originally posted by: dahunan
Using part of our tax dollars daddy buskbucks gave them as tax incentives

I bet the cost of these is small enough that Hawaii citizens/govt could have funded the project themselves and told energy companies to go to hell ..

Guess where the government gets it's money from? from YOU, either through tax dollars or by floating some bonds. And you really think, that even if it were gov't run, they wouldn't charge you for it? I forgot that municipalities everywhere are providing free electricity to citizens.

 

[boredhokie]

Originally posted by: wetech

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: wetech

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: dahunan
Using part of our tax dollars daddy buskbucks gave them as tax incentives

I bet the cost of these is small enough that Hawaii citizens/govt could have funded the project themselves and told energy companies to go to hell ..

Umm.... k? That doesn't really make any sense.

It is nice of Shell to give some of their $200,000,000 to it.. BUT .. mr bush GAVE them $15,000,000,000 in tax breaks to research-invest in this stuff.. AND GUESS WHY? So they can keep control of the finances of it.. Do you really think bush (oil/energy man) would want states to become self sufficient

$15,000,000,000 tax incentives given to big oil

couple months later

$15,000,000,000 taken away from GUARANTEED Student loan funding for higher education

It's amazing how some people can turn anything into a Bush bash.

"Shell Oil funds envio-friendly alternative energy"

Response: "This is all Bush's fault. Damn you big corporations."

At least you didn't try to tie it to Iraq.

You might want to look at WHO funded it -- YOU paid for it .. they just did the work and will gladly charge you for any electricity you receive from it

It's generally accepted that companies can charge for services provided. Do you think that the Hawaiian government knows anything about running a windfarm?

Originally posted by: dahunan
Using part of our tax dollars daddy buskbucks gave them as tax incentives

I bet the cost of these is small enough that Hawaii citizens/govt could have funded the project themselves and told energy companies to go to hell ..

Guess where the government gets it's money from? from YOU, either through tax dollars or by floating some bonds. And you really think, that even if it were gov't run, they wouldn't charge you for it? I forgot that municipalities everywhere are providing free electricity to citizens.

Thanks for the civics lesson but you missed his point as always. His argument is that we should not have given tax breaks to big oil to incentivize them to do alt R&D because they would be researching it either way.

Do you think Exxon/whatever was thinking "man, we could just stick to selling oil from the mideast for the next 300 years, but maybe if we had lower taxes, we could find something else to sell!"

Wrong, they know that oil won't be very abundant 20 years from now and have probably spent decades on alt R&D. If you had bothered to rub a few braincells together instead of flexing your econ 101 skillz you could have seen that rewarding a company that SELLS ENERGY is going to find new suppliers when the old ones run out.

So why were these tax cuts given? Would (our) money have been better off staying with the states to support education and a return to regulated power utilities, or maybe returned to taxpayers in the form of lower taxes to spur the economy a bit?

A state can run a wind farm, it's a researched industry. Why the hell would any ex-oil producing companies be any better at air/water/whatever electricity generation?

 

[wetech]

Originally posted by: boredhokie

Thanks for the civics lesson but you missed his point as always.

I don't think I've ever responded to one of his posts before, so I don't know what you're talking about, and obviously, neither do you.

His argument is that we should not have given tax breaks to big oil to incentivize them to do alt R&D because they would be researching it either way.

His argument was, "The government shouldn't pay for it [through tax cuts]. The government should pay for it. Evil corporations should go to hell, and Bush is bad." I was merely commenting on how some people can turn anything, even apolitical news such as this into an anti-bush/corporation rant.

A state can run a wind farm, it's a researched industry. Why the hell would any ex-oil producing companies be any better at air/water/whatever electricity generation?

Wrong, they know that oil won't be very abundant 20 years from now and have probably spent decades on alt R&D. If you had bothered to rub a few braincells together instead of flexing your econ 101 skillz you could have seen that rewarding a company that SELLS ENERGY is going to find new suppliers when the old ones run out.

I think you answered your own question there, don't strain yourself thinking about it too much. Do you think a company called Shell Windenergy might be able to run a windfarm a bit better then a local government? Shell Windenergy [previously Whitewater Energy] has been in the wind energy production / management business for 25 years. I think they might know what they're doing by now.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: wetech

Originally posted by: boredhokie

Thanks for the civics lesson but you missed his point as always.

I don't think I've ever responded to one of his posts before, so I don't know what you're talking about, and obviously, neither do you.

His argument is that we should not have given tax breaks to big oil to incentivize them to do alt R&D because they would be researching it either way.

His argument was, "The government shouldn't pay for it [through tax cuts]. The government should pay for it. Evil corporations should go to hell, and Bush is bad." I was merely commenting on how some people can turn anything, even apolitical news such as this into an anti-bush/corporation rant.

A state can run a wind farm, it's a researched industry. Why the hell would any ex-oil producing companies be any better at air/water/whatever electricity generation?

Wrong, they know that oil won't be very abundant 20 years from now and have probably spent decades on alt R&D. If you had bothered to rub a few braincells together instead of flexing your econ 101 skillz you could have seen that rewarding a company that SELLS ENERGY is going to find new suppliers when the old ones run out.

I think you answered your own question there, don't strain yourself thinking about it too much. Do you think a company called Shell Windenergy might be able to run a windfarm a bit better then a local government? Shell Windenergy [previously Whitewater Energy] has been in the wind energy production / management business for 25 years. I think they might know what they're doing by now.

WHY should we provide $15,000,000,000 to these companies when just before the incentives were announced they also announced they had record breaking profits and will continue to do so..

You LIKE giving your money to them to pay for the electricity AND to give them free welfare checks?

 

[wetech]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: wetech

Originally posted by: boredhokie

Thanks for the civics lesson but you missed his point as always.

I don't think I've ever responded to one of his posts before, so I don't know what you're talking about, and obviously, neither do you.

His argument is that we should not have given tax breaks to big oil to incentivize them to do alt R&D because they would be researching it either way.

His argument was, "The government shouldn't pay for it [through tax cuts]. The government should pay for it. Evil corporations should go to hell, and Bush is bad." I was merely commenting on how some people can turn anything, even apolitical news such as this into an anti-bush/corporation rant.

A state can run a wind farm, it's a researched industry. Why the hell would any ex-oil producing companies be any better at air/water/whatever electricity generation?

Wrong, they know that oil won't be very abundant 20 years from now and have probably spent decades on alt R&D. If you had bothered to rub a few braincells together instead of flexing your econ 101 skillz you could have seen that rewarding a company that SELLS ENERGY is going to find new suppliers when the old ones run out.

I think you answered your own question there, don't strain yourself thinking about it too much. Do you think a company called Shell Windenergy might be able to run a windfarm a bit better then a local government? Shell Windenergy [previously Whitewater Energy] has been in the wind energy production / management business for 25 years. I think they might know what they're doing by now.

WHY should we provide $15,000,000,000 to these companies when just before the incentives were announced they also announced they had record breaking profits and will continue to do so..

You LIKE giving your money to them to pay for the electricity AND to give them free welfare checks?

I never said we should or shouldn't have given the tax cuts.

 

[Engineer]

:thumbsup:

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: dahunan

You LIKE giving your money to them to pay for the electricity AND to give them free welfare checks?

Typical liberati logic: You think someone else's money is your money. Their tax cut cost you not a single cent.

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: dahunan

You LIKE giving your money to them to pay for the electricity AND to give them free welfare checks?

Typical liberati logic: You think someone else's money is your money. Their tax cut cost you not a single cent.

Are you sure about that.. They were scheduled to pay it and sure weren't really going to complain about it since their profits were the highest ever in history... so how can you sit their and say the money didn't cost us anything?

They raise the prices on gasoline and we give them a $15,000,000,000 tax CUT/BREAK..

So, if you say that money was never going to reach our Federal Govt is that because they don't PAY taxes

I think you are the one who is The tax cut = funds that will not be received.. but were scheduled to be received.. RIGHT?

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Corn

Originally posted by: dahunan

You LIKE giving your money to them to pay for the electricity AND to give them free welfare checks?

Typical liberati logic: You think someone else's money is your money. Their tax cut cost you not a single cent.

Are you sure about that.. They were scheduled to pay it and sure weren't really going to complain about it since their profits were the highest ever in history... so how can you sit their and say the money didn't cost us anything?

They raise the prices on gasoline and we give them a $15,000,000,000 tax CUT/BREAK..

So, if you say that money was never going to reach our Federal Govt is that because they don't PAY taxes

I think you are the one who is The tax cut = funds that will not be received.. but were scheduled to be received.. RIGHT?

Gas companies don't really have that much control over their prices.