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Another mass shooting

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Greenman said:
True enough. So why isn't it a headline? Why aren't there candlelight vigils and congress critters calling for more gun laws? What's the difference between people getting shot down in the street every single day or at a garlic festival? Is it simply that in Chicago they're being killed in ones and twos and we have a threshold that has to be met? Tell me why it's different, tell me why it's business as usual in that city and a massacre everywhere else.
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No one died this time?
 
Greenman said:
True enough. So why isn't it a headline? Why aren't there candlelight vigils and congress critters calling for more gun laws? What's the difference between people getting shot down in the street every single day or at a garlic festival? Is it simply that in Chicago they're being killed in ones and twos and we have a threshold that has to be met? Tell me why it's different, tell me why it's business as usual in that city and a massacre everywhere else.
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Because it's poverty stricken parts of Chicago that are run by gangs and not garlic festivals and suburban malls.

7 people died and 52 were wounded due to gun violence in Chicago this weekend
(CNN)Emotional reserves tapped by two mass shootings in Texas and Ohio, the nation has not yet grasped the violence that left an almost identical number of people wounded on the streets of Chicago.

A weekend of gun violence left seven people dead and 52 people wounded in the third-largest American city, according to the Chicago Police Department.

Chicago hospital stops accepting patients after trauma center is overwhelmed with shooting victims
Officers responded to a total of 32 shooting incidents throughout the weekend beginning Friday night, said Police Superintendent Eddie Johnson at a Sunday afternoon press conference. The conference was held outside an entrance to the city's Douglas Park, where one of the weekend's multi-victim, multi-perpetrator shootings took place. Johnson said the weekend's violence was "gang and narcotics related."

Conveying his condolences to the people of El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio as well as the citizens of Chicago, Johnson said all have been "affected by a tragic level of violence within a society that's become immune to these types of shootings."

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and the Justice Department are helping Chicago police investigate the weekend's gun violence, Johnson said. He added the violence could be related to a basketball tournament that took place earlier in the day. The violence broke out at night after most people had left the tournament.

People who live in "challenging communities" want police to be there, but it can be difficult when some people congregate late at night, Johnson said.
"We have to be mindful of their civil rights. So, if they're not committing a crime, all we can do is move them along. They're quite frankly resistant to it a lot of the time," said Johnson. "It's a game of chess. We pull them out, they come back."

Chicago police have posted photographs to both Facebook and Twitter of some of the legal and illegal guns officers have seized on the streets.

Semi-automatic firearms shoot one bullet per trigger squeeze, according to Cornell Law School's Legal Information Institute. Automatic firearms — commonly referred to as "machine guns" — fire continuously with a single trigger pull until ammunition is depleted.

It is illegal for civilians in the United States to possess machine guns manufactured after 1986. Ownership of a machine gun made before then requires a federal permit and registration. In some cases, semi-automatic weapons can be modified to work automatically. It is illegal to modify the internal components of a semi-automatic rifle to make it fully auto.

"For $1,000 and an ankle bracelet you can walk out of jail after being arrested with military-grade assault weapons complete with armor-piercing bullets," Johnson said. "I can say that because we saw that yesterday." He added that the point is that people carry illegal guns "because there are no consequences."
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Below is the sound that Chicago needs to change its ways on how we handle gun offenders. Audio from the tragic shooting at 18th & Kildare yesterday shows that criminals have no deterrent to carrying illegal guns in our city and this is what residents and police are up against.​
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397​
403 people are talking about this
Chicago police released a recording of the sound of gunshots heard this weekend in the city, which is home to nearly 3 million people.
Despite high numbers for the weekend, murders and shootings are down about 12% this year, said Johnson, who believes police strategies, community relationships and technologies have contributed to the double-digit reductions in gun violence that have taken place for the past three years.
Still there are system loopholes that need to be fixed with common-sense solutions agreed upon by the police, the courts and the community, he said.
At a Monday afternoon press conference, Chicago Police presented a new data portal that will go live on the department's website later in the afternoon. Though the data is already available to the public, the new dashboard will present information in a more convenient fashion, according to Johnson.
For the period of January 1, 2018, through Monday (August 5, 2019), 12.8% of all people arrested for felony weapons charges were rearrested for a violent crime or weapons-related charge, while 33.7% were rearrested for any other charge.

"We have to create a culture of accountability in the city," said Johnson. "Right now, I don't think we have that. We keep seeing the same people."
Johnson, who became a minor sensation for his deeply felt remarks delivered beneath the park's sun-dappled trees, noted the potential hurdle involved: "What really infuriates me is we have the power to do something about it, I just don't know if we have the will to do it."
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Greenman said:
What's the difference between people getting shot down in the street every single day or at a garlic festival?
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You don't see the difference between a single person with a semi-automatic traveling to a crowded festival or Walmart for the sole purpose of killing as many people as he can . . . people he doesn't even know . . . solely based on bigoted hate vs. gang bangers taking endless pops at each other over inner city turf wars?

I have resolutely refused to believe that you're that dense, that , , , stupid. I have always thought you refuse to see the truth of these matters because of your belief in the primitive and ignorant right wing bullshit that you try, but fail, to hide from us. But you are rapidly convincing me that it may be a combination of both. 🙁

The one commonality in both of these ongoing tragedies is the REPUBLICAN opposition to gun control laws. For shame!
 
DrDoug said:
With all of the shooting going on in Chicago, Illinois ought to be right up there in the number of gun deaths per 100,000 people, right? Let's see... #1? Nope, that's Alaska. How about #2 in gun deaths per 100,000 people? Hmmmm... nope, that's Alabama! Maybe they are #3 in the country? Ummmm.... nope, that's Louisiana! In the top 10 states for gun deaths per 100,000 people? Again, nope! Those states are Mississippi, Oklahoma, Montana, Missouri, New Mexico, Arkansas and South Carolina. Maybe Illinois is in the top 20? Nope. How about top 30 states? Nope. So where are they? Well, Illinois is at 34th in gun deaths per 100,000 people. Now look carefully at the states I named. If you care to notice, these states are largely Republican controlled states.

There's a reason Republicans like to point and shoot at Illinois and Chicago... that's because they are doing much better than the Republican states and they don't want you to notice that.
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Sounds to me like a desperate attempt to paint Chicago in a better picture by lumping all of Illinois together and then comparing with Alaska. Does anyone in Illinois really like comparing themselves with Alaska and vice versa?

Why not compare the City of Chicago with similar world class cities like NYC, SF, LA, DC, etc? A comparison of murder rates shows that Chicago is pretty bad:
  • Chicago: 24.13
  • DC: 16.72
  • Houston: 11.50
  • Phoenix: 9.55
  • Boston: 8.35
  • Los Angeles: 7.01
  • SF: 6.35
  • NYC: 3.39
As a Bay Area resident even our dangerous city, Oakland, has a lower murder rate (16.24), so yes Chicago is bad. And when you consider the city of Chicago is actually pretty big in area and population, then this number is even worse because you have to consider the good areas averaging out the bad areas.
 
Perknose said:
You don't see the difference between a single person with a semi-automatic traveling to a crowded festival or Walmart for the sole purpose of killing as many people as he can . . . people he doesn't even know . . . solely based on bigoted hate vs. gang bangers taking endless pops at each other over inner city turf wars?

I have resolutely refused to believe that you're that dense, that , , , stupid. I have always thought you refuse to see the truth of these matters because of your belief in the primitive and ignorant right wing bullshit that you try, but fail, to hide from us. But you are rapidly convincing me that it may be a combination of both. 🙁

The one commonality in both of these ongoing tragedies is the REPUBLICAN opposition to gun control laws. For shame!
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It's the same thing. Unloading at a concert or a group of people standing at a bus stop, it's murder. Is it cleaner if it's gang banger's having a turf war? Why would that be? Is it because it's mostly black kids killing black kids, and we don't really give a fuck cause we don't have to see them die? They're people, they're humans just like you and I and their deaths are every bit as tragic as those of the people at the garlic festival. You want to pretend that retail murder is better than wholesale and then call me stupid because I disagree. You can fuck right off.
Every single death is a tragedy, even those black gang banger's you so blithely dismiss. Every single one of them has a family that will be crushed, every single one of them deserved a chance at life.
 
Perknose said:
You don't see the difference between a single person with a semi-automatic traveling to a crowded festival or Walmart for the sole purpose of killing as many people as he can . . . people he doesn't even know . . . solely based on bigoted hate vs. gang bangers taking endless pops at each other over inner city turf wars?
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Greenman said:
It's the same thing.
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Only in the sense that both continue to plague us because of Republican opposition to gun control legislation. But the intentional and pruposeful mass slaughter of innocents done for politically motivated, bigoted hate is not the same as inner city turf wars.

Your tender cloying concern reeks of the blind dishonest bullshit it is. You and your politics don't give one flying fucking shit about inner city blacks. Or . . . maybe you really are that stupid. Or both.

Either way, any way, YOU CAN FUCK RIGHT OFF.
 
DLeRium said:
Sounds to me like a desperate attempt to paint Chicago in a better picture by lumping all of Illinois together and then comparing with Alaska. Does anyone in Illinois really like comparing themselves with Alaska and vice versa?

Why not compare the City of Chicago with similar world class cities like NYC, SF, LA, DC, etc? A comparison of murder rates shows that Chicago is pretty bad:
  • Chicago: 24.13
  • DC: 16.72
  • Houston: 11.50
  • Phoenix: 9.55
  • Boston: 8.35
  • Los Angeles: 7.01
  • SF: 6.35
  • NYC: 3.39
As a Bay Area resident even our dangerous city, Oakland, has a lower murder rate (16.24), so yes Chicago is bad. And when you consider the city of Chicago is actually pretty big in area and population, then this number is even worse because you have to consider the good areas averaging out the bad areas.
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Nothing desperate here...lol, just information. The policies of states are what determine what happens both within their borders and without. Illinois/Chicago can do whatever they want in regards to gun controls/restrictions, but the conservative states with liberal gun policies (think of that...lol!) that adjoin them provide easy access to firearms and ammo. The problems are complex and those who point at one set of data and extrapolate from that to arrive at a conclusion that doesn't match the reality of what is going on aren't helping anyone solve the problems.

As to the subject here; as far as guns and gun attitude in this country and how fucked up conservatives are, here's a real sign in Texas. The owner clearly thought that it would be funny.

MeanwhileInTexas.jpg

That's conservative humor.
 
Bullet-proof backpacks are all the rage this year. Thank god we live in such a great country.
 
Conservatives: violence among black people shows liberals don’t really care about gun violence.

Liberals: okay, let’s pass tighter gun laws to make these shootings less likely.

Conservatives: no.
 
DrDoug said:
With all of the shooting going on in Chicago, Illinois ought to be right up there in the number of gun deaths per 100,000 people, right? Let's see... #1? Nope, that's Alaska. How about #2 in gun deaths per 100,000 people? Hmmmm... nope, that's Alabama! Maybe they are #3 in the country? Ummmm.... nope, that's Louisiana! In the top 10 states for gun deaths per 100,000 people? Again, nope! Those states are Mississippi, Oklahoma, Montana, Missouri, New Mexico, Arkansas and South Carolina. Maybe Illinois is in the top 20? Nope. How about top 30 states? Nope. So where are they? Well, Illinois is at 34th in gun deaths per 100,000 people. Now look carefully at the states I named. If you care to notice, these states are largely Republican controlled states.

There's a reason Republicans like to point and shoot at Illinois and Chicago... that's because they are doing much better than the Republican states and they don't want you to notice that.
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Let's slow down. Like needs to go with like. What is the rate in major cities and what is the state with and without those included? I like facts but they only count in a proper and valid context.

Top cities for violence. Some are Dem states and some aren't and I don't care about playing party games. Probably a better way to evaluate violence besides parties is to look at the last hundred years or as far back as consistent data exists, then look for correlation and causation. But that may point to things people don't like and so it's better not to know but merely accuse.

NYC is a less dangerous place than London. Why? Start there perhaps.
 
fskimospy said:
Conservatives: violence among black people shows liberals don’t really care about gun violence.

Liberals: okay, let’s pass tighter gun laws to make these shootings less likely.

Conservatives: no.
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For the sake of discussion, why is London more dangerous than NYC?
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
For the sake of discussion, why is London more dangerous than NYC?
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It isn’t, it’s dramatically safer.

You have to be careful when comparing crimes across countries because two countries will classify the same actions as two wildly different crimes. That’s why people tend to stick to homicide rates as everyone can at least usually agree that a dead body is a dead body.

With that in mind, the homicide rate in London was less than half that of NYC in 2018 and NYC is frequently praised as one of the safest big cities in the US.
 
fskimospy said:
It isn’t, it’s dramatically safer.

You have to be careful when comparing crimes across countries because two countries will classify the same actions as two wildly different crimes. That’s why people tend to stick to homicide rates as everyone can at least usually agree that a dead body is a dead body.

With that in mind, the homicide rate in London was less than half that of NYC in 2018 and NYC is frequently praised as one of the safest big cities in the US.
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Reading further, "dramatically" is not what I would say but "similar". So why isn't the difference far greater? NYC has gun laws as do other locals and getting into the city armed is easy.

So what has happened to make one gun accessible city safer than others if we look at the US?
 
pmv said:
The same reason why the moon is made of cheese and why pigs fly?
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Depending on how stats are compared they are close. Now that pigs are on the table, why is NYC safer than other American cities such as Lansing or is that too incorrect? Remember guns can be had in both places which suggests something else is going on. What is that?
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
Reading further, "dramatically" is not what I would say but "similar". So why isn't the difference far greater? NYC has gun laws as do other locals and getting into the city armed is easy.

So what has happened to make one gun accessible city safer than others if we look at the US?
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I mean London's rate is less than half that of NYC's despite both cities being dense urban areas. That's a pretty dramatic difference so I guess I don't accept the premise.
 
fskimospy said:
I mean London's rate is less than half that of NYC's despite both cities being dense urban areas. That's a pretty dramatic difference so I guess I don't accept the premise.
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I'm thinking in terms of population and both are very low compared to other cities. I'll ask the question I asked pmv- looking internally at cities that have strict gun laws and access from other areas to firearms, why is there such variation between cities?

I'd love to see some well written analysis of historical comparisons between cities over time over the last century until now. I know of no such work that is of academic quality.
 
DrDoug said:
With all of the shooting going on in Chicago, Illinois ought to be right up there in the number of gun deaths per 100,000 people, right? Let's see... #1? Nope, that's Alaska. How about #2 in gun deaths per 100,000 people? Hmmmm... nope, that's Alabama! Maybe they are #3 in the country? Ummmm.... nope, that's Louisiana! In the top 10 states for gun deaths per 100,000 people? Again, nope! Those states are Mississippi, Oklahoma, Montana, Missouri, New Mexico, Arkansas and South Carolina. Maybe Illinois is in the top 20? Nope. How about top 30 states? Nope. So where are they? Well, Illinois is at 34th in gun deaths per 100,000 people. Now look carefully at the states I named. If you care to notice, these states are largely Republican controlled states.

There's a reason Republicans like to point and shoot at Illinois and Chicago... that's because they are doing much better than the Republican states and they don't want you to notice that.
Click to expand...

it seems that happy red pew pew states have the highest murder rate.

go figure.
 
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